2011-03-07, 20:11 | Link #1541 |
Banned
|
Couldn't resist not sharing this
http://trzr23.blogspot.com/2011/03/o...jo-madoka.html I agree with him BTW |
2011-03-07, 20:18 | Link #1542 | |
On a mission
Author
|
The blog makes excellent points; such as:
Quote:
And yes, I do remember Uta Kata.
__________________
|
|
2011-03-07, 20:25 | Link #1543 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
|
otokomatsuri1
Quote:
http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Translat...cial_Documents He should have went up to them and went: "Would you like to make a contract with me?" |
|
2011-03-07, 20:42 | Link #1544 |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
|
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. This story cannot work the way the writer intended it without the plot holes. If you try to approach the story from a "perfect narrative" angle, Homura would have come clean in the first episode and/or just killed Madoka and gotten it over with. It's akin to the villain monologuing instead of just shooting the hero and being done with it.
Are there other ways of doing it? Sure, probably. But this is what is on the table and workable with the factors of time/staff/budget/etc involved. I'm sure the script was worked, reworked, and worked again, and there are of course all the consequences of those changes (VA's redoing lines, redrawing of scenes, etc.). It's about as perfect as it can be in the world of deadlines and budgets though, especially for a relatively short 12 episodes. Most shows struggle to get anything done during that time. It's a solid package, noteworthy if only for that. Madoka isn't anymore or less "intelligent" than the audience deems it. Personally I found most of Evangelion pretty freaking stupid. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it, or that I didn't find any good philosophy to chew on, but I thought the plot was silly and the characters sillier. The same criticisms have been leveled at Madoka and many other anime that are popular for what people perceive them as regardless of their original intent. Angel Beats anyone? What is fun about Madoka is the sheer amount of thought that comes from it. The show, like it or not, inspires people. There is a ton of fan art, doujins, music, videos, and even people finding interest in classical literature, music, and other historical arts and artists. Just look at the wiki, it's loaded with information that isn't directly tied to the show but fascinating to the fans. Ethics, sociology, physics, philosophy, and other schools of thought rage back and forth in discussions. The show itself, not so deep. It is a fairly methodical telling of the darker side of the Magical Girl genre. Ignoring everything but plot progression, there are no real surprises or amazing speeches, no clever writing that people will be quoting for years to come. However the characters are endearing, the story is dark and mysterious, and the plot progresses by peeling back the layers, forcing the audience to think in order to guess what happens next. You can love or hate the fan base at times, like any popular show, but you have the give the staff credit for being intelligent, creative, and perceptive to the desires of anime fans who want something different than yet another helping of the usual stuff.
__________________
|
2011-03-07, 20:59 | Link #1545 |
Banned
|
Well aesthetically-wise I am very content with the show. But being too orthological I tend to like shows that make sense and thus I have a hard time enjoying something that... doesn't. But it's true that a show can be good if it inspires the audience and not if it makes sense. I mean, seriously, K-ON created a million music bands when it's not even about music. And I guess the cake sales rose as well.
One thing I can never forgive them visually though is the haircolors. They are so obviously attached to the stereotypical personality, it is annoying. Not to mention the simplistic face structure. I mean Princess Tutu (by far the best mahou shoujo ever made for me) also had narrow variety in faces and bodyforms and most only wore identical ballet uniforms but very few were defined by their haircolor. And who can forget Neko-sensei? Now that was a memorable cat character. Frakk QB, this one was one messed up feline XD What makes the Madoka cast memorable? Them dying? |
2011-03-07, 21:15 | Link #1546 |
Senior Member
Author
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 47
|
Offtopic: Uh, pardon me?
My long enjoyment of that controversial Hideaki Anno creation (because of its deeper discussion about human relationships, psychology, and introspection) led me to watch -- and eventually love -- Madoka and appreciate the unusual storytelling, and the way it rouses viewers to put forward their findings, arguments and counter-arguments, and debate/discussion about ethics and morality. Furthermore, compared to Eva, Madoka is milder and it doesn't have to resort to excessive intellectual mindscrewing. So, I find the word "insane" a more preferable word to describe Eva, and which is why fans like me would like to curb down that mindscrewing and come up with better ways to make that anime palatable, such as writing a solid fic that peels away the excessive noise and pseudoscience/psychobabble and reveal the core meaning of the story. And I'm making plans for a crossover fic between that and Madoka. I hope you could appreciate my side.
__________________
|
2011-03-07, 21:20 | Link #1547 | |
◕ ‿‿ ◕
Scanlator
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Neo-Venezia, Planet Aqua (Mars)
|
Quote:
|
|
2011-03-07, 21:26 | Link #1548 |
I kill you
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In your brain
|
In interview from either animedia or newtype (not sure since I saw this in 2ch), staff suggested us to re-watch episode 1 after 11th episode and before 12th. I wonder why they are asking something like this, as they are saying there was 'pleasant trick' that no-one got to see properly. (probably not since 4chan gods might have already predicted one.)
__________________
|
2011-03-07, 21:28 | Link #1549 | |||
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
|
That's a terrifying cat. But I get what you're saying about the character designs. I don't mind it as much but it is typical of anime.
Quote:
The designs for the main characters aren't just for aesthetic purposes either, they tie into the plot and the symbolism (real and imagined/speculative) in the show. I'm not really a fan of the way they animate the Witches but I have to admit it is....different, and not abused to the point where I can't stand to watch the show. The little details for each Witch are also a nice touch, and helps keep the viewer paying attention to the entire scene instead of just the characters moving around. This extends to many of the scenes outside the Witches lairs, for example Homura's house or the board in the classroom in episode 9. Edit: Saw these responses, trying to avoid double posting. Quote:
Then again, I haven't seen Rebuild yet. I will soon. I'm just pointing out that there are many people who love Eva, and many people who write it off because they don't see what the fans see. I've heard plenty of criticisms toward Eva that it isn't "deep", it's just a bunch of symbolism and psycho-babble, that it isn't "intelligent" because the characters are insane and the plot is all over the place, etc. Hence my point that no matter what the intent of the work, the audience will find their own meaning and enjoyment. Quote:
__________________
Last edited by Solace; 2011-03-07 at 21:39. |
|||
2011-03-07, 21:29 | Link #1550 | |
tl;dr
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 32
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2011-03-07, 21:37 | Link #1551 | |
I kill you
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In your brain
|
Quote:
Then, it's from animedia, since that's where that scan came from.
__________________
|
|
2011-03-07, 22:55 | Link #1552 | |||
Banned
|
Something I see a lot of people overlooking:
The girls are not stupid given the context of the story. If magical, wish-granting entities actually existed, the typical impulsive teenager isn't going to stop and take the "It's too good to be true" clause into account. Add in the fact that Kyubey only responds to direct questions and you'd basically have to know to ask him "Oh, by the way, would having my wish granted result in my soul being trapped inside a small rock by any chance?" to get a straight answer, and it's completely believable why the characters only find out the horrible truth when it's too late. And as for not questioning Kyubey in general, that's the entire point. This is the deconstruction of a Magical Girl series. One of the primary staples of any MG story is some sort of cutesy talking creature approaching a prospective MG and going "Here, take these magical powers I'm apparently giving you solely out of the goodness of my heart!" and the MG basically going "Oh, okay," before transforming for the first time. Kyubey really just satirizes the over-trustworthiness Magical Girls have toward their mentor-creatures. If you want to see a "tragic" Magical Girl story that fails to be realistic because it actually does force the characters to act unbelievably stupid to make its desired plot direction work, watch the second half of My HiME. I will agree with that blog writer's opinion of Homura's characterization currently making no sense, though. Some other stuff from the blog: Quote:
Welcome to the party, pal. Quote:
Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kyubey talking about natural secondary sex characteristics in prospective MGs? Children grow into their teen years and become emotional timebombs. The emotional output is generally even greater in females. Makes sense to me, assuming there was even the slightest shred of truth in his entire explanation. Last edited by Hagoshod; 2011-03-07 at 23:33. |
|||
2011-03-07, 23:15 | Link #1553 | |
◕ ‿‿ ◕
Scanlator
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Neo-Venezia, Planet Aqua (Mars)
|
Changing the topic somewhat:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13763958 You do not have to be a fan of Madoka Magica to be... entertained by this, but it will certainly add to the flavor. Starting the video while you are consuming any food or beverage is highly unrecommended :P Quote:
Last edited by MaiNoKen; 2011-03-07 at 23:27. |
|
2011-03-08, 04:02 | Link #1555 | |
Banned
|
Quote:
1) QB assumes only girls about to enter puberty are emotional bombs or are trustworthy enough to accept a wish out of nowhere. Now what a big fat lie that is. 90% of humanity are emotional bombs who would brainlessly accept aid out of nowhere. Would a poor 50 year old male farmer say no to a heavenly creature who will instantly make him young again or rich as hell to finally enjoy his life away from the crappy village he wasted most of his life in? Would a 70 year old granny nun say no to getting superpowers and fught the injustice in the world, a thing she couldn't do her entire life closed in a monastery? I can go on forever but bottom line is "most would gladly accept, some wouldn't even care if there is a prise to all that". 2) As for the trust worthy girls who accept powers in every show, please notice how they do it WHILE they are under attack by monsters. So in a way they do it to save themselves because the alternative would mean death. And with no wish attached as an extra bonus as well. 3) And seriously, an advanced alien race finds it easier to deal with humanity by harvesting power from a bunch of little girls instead of just helping the republicans be in charge and in need of liberating oil from terrorists? (sarcasm) Or a death beam in the core of the Earth? Or convincing a nation that they are superior, Jesus ressurected from the dead, seas open at half because they said so? (more sarcasm) I mean, REALLY, this is the best plan they thought of? Do you know how easily an asteroid can be pulled of its course and towards Earth? Gravity does all the work and there is no triction in space. Hell, even if it burns in the atmosphere the world will go mad and bombs will fly around. I mean REALLY??? Didn't that plan make you feel your IQ dropped a few points? |
|
2011-03-08, 04:12 | Link #1556 |
Stupidity is Bliss.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In Hancock's Heart
|
OFf-topic: I LOVE EVA. but for some reason, REBUILD didn't really amaze me unlike the original.
Anyhow, I think i found a replacement to my eva. and it's madoka... depending on how this ends would make it to be the greatest anime i've evah seen. XDD
__________________
|
2011-03-08, 05:09 | Link #1558 | |
Senior Member
Author
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 47
|
Quote:
Even if they're worlds (and years) apart, IMHO both are psychological thrillers, both have fragile, vulnerable, doubting characters with flawed personalities; both have enemies that don't have a clear intent, but the true antagonists are within those characters, for they have their own fears, and fear is a potent killer of dreams. Fortunately Madoka doesn't include the maddening technobabble/psychobabble normally found in Eva. Edit: It'll be nicer if watched with a bottle of retsina.
__________________
Last edited by sa547; 2011-03-08 at 05:28. |
|
2011-03-08, 05:21 | Link #1559 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2011-03-08, 05:45 | Link #1560 | |
I kill you
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In your brain
|
Quote:
Even world's most finest novel will not be able to escape from that kind of 'lol realism' approach. You call those unexplained details about plot - 'empty text', where it is open for discussion and interpretation. Good series is when this empty text is smaller compare to the time constraint. From what I have seen, Madoka has much less amount of these unexplained parts than any other story driven animations I've seen recently. Edited: and for no.2, seriously? You do know how Homura was saving Madoka multiple times just to avoid that situation?
__________________
|
|
Tags |
despair, hope, madoka magica, magical girl, urobuchi gen |
|
|