Guilty Crown - General Discussion

[Archon_Wing]

Haha, what do you do when the best parts of the show are when you see Shu miserable?

It's fairly obvious at the moment that Shu's just attracted to Inori for her hawtness; lol he thinks he has her huh. Well, shockingly, not even Inori will put up with this shit and was like "erg get away from me"

And this my friends, is our hero. Place on your faith in him. Now I think i know why the end quote of abandoning all hope kinda means.

Also, Shu proves his foolishness and gets owned by Ayase, most deserving of it too. Good thing the slap due to ecchiness was used only once.

Well, at least Ayase is hot. She became the best character because she has voiced by HanaKana and has some kind of complex about being disabled, not wanting to be dependent upon others. That little bit of insight puts her above everyone else for sure.

Next episode seems to have something.

6.5/10 (Above Average, before you guys start freaking out over my ratings) for making Ayase look and sound sexy. Inori has some minor progress too. I guess she might have supplanted Tsugumi who unfortunately wasn't used in this episode over here. It sure looks great, though everything else? *Shrugs* Unfortunately, I want to beat Shu with an iron, so it's not much to say besides he ruins the show every time he manages to appear.

It's not that Shu is emo or weak or anything making me dislike him. In fact, he picked a nice tactic near the end. But in general, he seems to default to the most idiotic thing to do or say, amplifying the typical worthlessness of your standard male protag by way too much. Welcome to Sion Mk II, making this no.6 II, or maybe I can really call it no. 69

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Wow, that did not cross my mind. That just makes Segai that much more devious than I originally thought. He really doesn't mind sacrificing anyone, does he?

Well I figured it would just automatically send a million missiles fired at the location of the pen, but this is close enough . But yeah clearly not caring too much if Shu happens to be vaporized. Never use the pen! Also thank god Ayase isn't the type to play around with a pen...

Another thing about the trust issue this episode. It has been a roller coaster for Shu these few episodes. He has been betrayed by so many people. Just the past episode, he asked Inori if it was ok to trust her. It seemed like she was the only one he can trust, but in the end, she also lied to him as well. I would not know how I would recover from this.

Yeah his circle of trust shrinks every day. Well at least he can extend that out a bit to include Ayase. No worries about misunderstanding who she is interested in. While I'm sure he was happy about the applause doubt he's that eager to trust everyone in that organization quite yet.

[Master_Yoma]

Well got to know Ayase a little her scream is cute and she looks so hot in that nightgown

[djmaca]

Yeah his circle of trust shrinks every day. Well at least he can extend that out a bit to include Ayase. No worries about misunderstanding who she is interested in. While I'm sure he was happy about the applause doubt he's that eager to trust everyone in that organization quite yet.

Since the title says "Guilty Crown", maybe Shuu, who has the Power of Kings(?), might just end up betraying everyone and regret it for the rest of his angsty, Sasuke-level of emo-ism life....

[Reckoner]

Well, well well...

Slightly better than last week, but still pretty stupid episode.

Not only is our main protagonist boring, but apparently he's also a jackass... And no I don't think the creators were trying to get us to take that away coming away from this episode.

I mean really, was it necessary to paint Shu as such an insensitive and chauvinistic pig in this episode? Not only did he come off really patronizing at the beginning with Ayase, he was also claiming ownership to Inori like she was his property (Well she is a doll, a sex doll at that, so it may be understandable that Shu thought of her as an object ). Not very impressive behavior really.

Then add in the fact that Shu seems to angst about the most minor details imaginable that you're kind of ripped straight out the show due to not being able to understand. Angst is fine really, but angst needs to be explainable and/or empathizable. He should be angsting if anything about the cold treatment he's receiving, but he seems to be more concerned about how Inori isn't his possession.

Ayase's character isn't half bad, but the writing for the story is so bad that it's pretty much irrelevant. More silly fanservice and cliche antics all around.

Seriously, the production values for this series are WAY too good for this story, and it's pretty undeserving of such treatment.

6/10

[Archon_Wing]

It would have been an awesome hentai though.

Believe it.

[TheDrifter]

well i finally learned the main character's name...shu. it's hard for me to even like this character. i always think it's dumb to impress people just so you can be accepted in their group. but he does it by using some almost unbeatable power to do so. couldn't do it on his own. and of course the dumb crowd accepts him.

but enough with the negative parts of the show. kido (the guy they rescued from last episode), the gloomy guy (lol), wheelchair lady, big guy with rocket launcher, have joined the list of characters I think i may like. the other two are gai, and the guy that gave shu the pen.

alright i said i was done with the negative parts of the show, but this i just gotta get off my chest. shu likes inori for some odd reason, and he actually had teh balls unlike many other characters to just say something about it. this is one of the few good traits he has. he gets rejected, and he does show NORMAL feelings like jealousy, and humiliation. so far so good...

UNTIL i remember there was a girl that liked him back at his school. this trash whines that you have to have long FABULOUS MAX blond hair and be a badass like gai to get the women folk. yet a girl in his class apparently likes worthless trash like him. how can he not notice her? what an idiot.

alright let me talk about another positive point in the show. cool mechs, cool side characters (so far), art is pretty good, and the main character likes a woman that's not a virgin. I was pretty happy to see inori wasn't "pure". she wasn't counting the days until the main character of the show can place his genome into her void. I always wanted to see an anime male character still pursue these kind of women.

....of course that was shattered later when i saw gai and her actually together. no bunny multiplication happened...and she is still a maiden. one day i'll watch a show where the love interest is not "pure"...one day. that's enough rambling for today folks.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Archon_wing

It would have been an awesome hentai though.

If these kind of production values were invested into a hentai...I'd never leave my room.

[Kunagisa]

By the way, a prediction from episode 1 discussions was confirmed again by the flashback in this episode (and at the end with ...)

Spoiler for spoiler:

so the two knew each other beforehand, who didn't see that coming?

┐(￣ー￣)┌, at least this explained Gai's action back in Episode 1 like we assumed.

[wandering-dreamer]

I can't read the Japanese, what exactly is it saying?

[Triple_R]

To defend Shu a bit, some of the stronger comments Inori made to him, as well as her decision to go against orders and play such a pivotal role in rescuing him in Episode 4, would quite naturally and understandably lead Shu to believe that she has a very serious crush on him. He in turn clearly has a very serious crush on her.

So I don't see where Shu said or did anything in this episode that's out of line for somebody who's sincerely in love with a girl, and who genuinely believes (with very good reason) that she in turn is in love with him.

Now, the relationship pacing here is indeed pretty fast, and that can undermine the anime's efforts to effectively convey to the audience just how deep and heartfelt Shu's feelings for Inori are, I think. But I don't think that Shu is looking down on Inori, or is viewing her as an object to be owned, so much as he thinks that there's significant mutual love between them, and he simply wants to act on that.

Hence, he's naturally stunned and taken aback to get these pretty suggestive hints that Inori and Gai have a physical relationship.

What he said to Ayase was somewhat disrespectful, certainly, but I think he was sincerely trying to be sensitive there. I also think that the fact Ayase is in a wheelchair was a larger factor in what Shu said to Ayase than the fact she's female. You can definitely say that he doesn't show enough respect to people with disabilities, but I personally don't see much evidence yet of Shu being sexist.

Now, as for Shu not noticing that his classmate Hare Menjou has a crush on him, well, we haven't seen those two characters interact much. One of the precious few times we did, Hare was making a critical comment to Shu and that could understandably, I think, lead him to believe that Hare isn't interested in him. At the very least, I don't think that Shu is being any more dense here than what your average anime male lead is.


Putting aside my defenses of Shu, I honestly wasn't that fond of Episode 5. It had one truly groan-worthy slapstick comedy moment (the one where Ayase slapped Shu after she caught him in the nude). There's just so much wrong with that one scene that I hardly know where to start.

Just ask yourself this: If you switched the genders of the two characters in that scene, how would you expect it to play out? So, yeah, this scene takes gender double standards in anime to a whole new level out of the anime that I've seen.

I did like Ayase in this episode overall, though. I also felt that some of the Undertaker members received good character building moments in this episode. It was a passable episode for what it was, one focusing on furthering character introductions and development, and fleshing out the secondary cast. I personally had no problem with how Shu won over his new allies, although I do think that Arugo probably should have been a bit more angry over being used that way by Shu.


I'll give this episode a 7/10.


Edit: One more thing. I think that the Inori we're seeing in this episode might be the act, rather than the Inori we saw in previous episodes. That one scene where Inori said "Shu..." longingly while watching him in his big challenge moment makes me suspect that Gai ordered Inori to hide her true feelings for Shu, as he felt that he needed to come between Shu and Inori to ensure that Shu wouldn't just rely on her while avoiding mixing in with the rest of the Undertaker group. I think that Inori is being honest about how Gai named her, and gave her life some degree of purpose. I also think that Inori feels very loyal to Gai. However, I think her feelings for Shu, demonstrated in previous episodes, are largely sincere.

[Kaioshin Sama]

I don't know how this episode managed it, but it somehow was able to do both the female empowerment thing and be insulting to the female sex at the same time. Actually it was kind of insulting to both sexes and I can just see Yoshino absolutely fighting with trying to make these characters work right now. It seems he's just kind of given up at this point and is going full throttle on otaku pandering with the female characters as his last result while trying to fudge Shu's development in time for the middle stretch. Results are less than desirable to say the least.

Let's see, we've got Shu being made the lynchpin of Gai's rebellion, and yet we see him constantly humiliated by all the sassy females in the story like Ayase with her upper body strength (I just see Yoshino smirking and thinking he's done brilliantly with the whole sympathetic cripple character that can fend for herself thing) and Inori with her perfect shooting ability that's never explained and is probably just there as a bad joke. Like hurrr look how good the hotty is at shooting and look how much your hapless weak male lead #12131351 sucks at it. Really getting tired of this shows ability to constantly finding new ways to annihilate my suspension of disbelief when I'm really not even trying to take it seriously anymore and just going with the flow. It takes talent to be this pandering and insulting so I guess Yoshino really does have something going for him after all.

Anyway no sooner does the show build Inori and Ayase up and knock Shu down than it immediately switches gears by having Ayase presented in compromising positions and Shu going all male chauvinism on Inori and then almost effortlessly managing to outwit Ayase in the mock battle using a power that EVERYONE knows he has and they should be on the lockout for to try and prevent to at least give him some degree of challenge in order to prove himself worthy of taking point for Gai. I'm kind of stunned at how poorly these characters are turning out for me right now and I continue to think it's cause Yoshino just has no idea how to write and develop decent characters without having to fall back on otaku pandering cliches like weak submissive male lead with mysterious power or meek submissive female lead with mysterious above average abilities that is for some reason beholden to male lead. Like I know exactly what he's doing... and I think that's the biggest problem for me right now. It's just too obvious what he's trying to do here and it's in no way to the benefit of the story.

This show is sadly at it's best when it just has it's characters stop talking and posing sexily for the camera and just start engaging in action sequences. It's kind of hard to screw up a characters development when all they are doing is running around engaging in mock battles or gravity battles or standoffs so thankfully this episode at least had that, but yeah, I have a pretty low tolerance for blatant pandering to otaku with tired character tropes and weak development in favor of fanservice and weirdly sexist dialogue and scenarios and this show is really pushing me to the absolute limit right now on this front. Not very happy at all and honestly I'm barely asking for anything at this point other than that the show please just not descend further into otaku pandering than it already has. Is it really THAT hard?

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer

I can't read the Japanese, what exactly is it saying?

Sorry went to watch penguin 18 (godliest episode yet).

For the text

Spoiler for spoiler:

It says Kid Gai and Kid Shu, and their respective voice actor names.

[MrTerrorist]

Well ain't that a smack to the heart.
The girl you trust and care about tells you she was using you by orders of her boss.

I kinda feel sorry for Shu but thankfully, Ayase cheered him up.

Can't wait for the next episode.

PS:I'm hoping and waiting for the episode where Shu gets Tsugumi's and/or Ayase's Voids. And the beach episode with all of the females as well.

[Flawfinder]

I'm barely asking for anything at this point other than that the show please just not descend further into otaku pandering than it already has. Is it really THAT hard?

For me, it's not the cliches and pandering that I hate. Otherwise, I'd hate Boku Wa Tomodachi, which does the same thing. It's just that this show executes them so straight and so poorly that it really brings the show down. It's like they made a checklist of things they wanted to put in their anime, but couldn't figure out a creative way to use them.

[dark998]

Damn. Like Shu, I was too naive to expect the romance with Inori was going to flourish quickly and nicely...but in all honestly it was impossible for Inori so simply leave Gai and the others even if she does like Shu as well (which is pretty obvious she does). Time for our hero to work hard and raise some flags

The bits were Ayase and the training mission were good as well. Shu also earned some points with the other Undertaker members which may come in handy when/if he ends up taking the lead of the group.

All in all, another great episode in the best series this season. And the one that deserves every single yen of budget poured onto it as well
.

[serenade_beta]

Spoiler for ep5:

Let's train (even though he was moving so crazily in the previous episode?) for the climax of this episode --> Superpowers clear everything, training was pointless

...Hm? What was the point of training in this episode...
Me #2: Because they needed to feel up the entire episode!
Me #1: Yes, yes, don't speak the truth. It is hard to use 2-cour when the script writer isn't up to it.

Though well, had a laugh of a so similar (not the first though) SHINING TEAAAAAAHH! scene.
And that ass of a protagonist got owned and Guy died, so best episode yet.

[JediNight]

I think this is a case of she was told to seduce him, but really did turn out to begin liking him. However she feels his attraction may be the result of her lie, so she feels bad and tells him about the orders and to keep away because she's disgusted with herself atm.

I don't think the disobeying orders to go rescue him was part of Gai's plan. I think Shu and Inori need to "start over" with no misconceptions now.

I didn't feel that Ayase had a complex about being handicapped. I felt that it was part of who she is, so she didn't want his pity. I winced when he said it, because it's a very inconsiderate thing to say to someone you don't know. She's handi-capable as it were. Major respect++ for her character development after that, as I thought they were just gonna use her as the pity fanservice material.

[4Tran]

Guilty Crown - Episode 5

Three minutes in:
"Here are 145 variations of the plan."
"I expect all 50 of you to memorize every bit of it."
"If you can't, I'm not taking you on the field trip."

If the goal of the creators is to show that Gai is a dumbass instead of a badass, they're doing a pretty good job.

Overall, this episode is the strongest one in the show so far. Having said that, it still doesn't exhibit many positives. The plot is still godawful, so there's no point in rehashing that. Inori is still amazingly awful and the direction is still terrible. In particular, the director and storyboarder don't seem to have any idea of how to deal with wheelchairs. Admittedly, it was a nice touch to say it was embarassing to see someone get back on a wheelchair - that way, they wouldn't have to actually animate it .

Howvever, wheelchair girl is the first character to develop any signs of life. The show would be a lot better if they kept her and fired all of the other characters.

Originally Posted by jzmagic

Why didn't they bug the pen with a tracking beacon so they can just bust on and kill everyone?

I wouldn't expect the plot points in Guilty Crown to start making sense all of a sudden.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Not very happy at all and honestly I'm barely asking for anything at this point other than that the show please just not descend further into otaku pandering than it already has. Is it really THAT hard?

I'm afraid that otaku pandering is sort of the main point of this show. We wouldn't want it to start moving away from its main draw, would we?

[FlareKnight]

In terms of Shu saying something insensitive, it's hardly new. He has a grand ability to say the wrong thing even when he's trying to say the right thing. Whether it's with his classmates or here, he manages to say things that will get people on his case. Unfortunately he managed to say something that got his rear kicked by Ayase. Of course can also say that if he thought that was the right thing to say he was still being rude. Of course it's hard to say with Shu since he said himself that he tries to say what he thinks people want to hear and might have been more about not inconveniencing Ayase with bothering to train him. Either way the wrong thing came out of his mouth there.

Good point as well by Triple_R. Hard to say what's the order and what isn't. Possible it was entirely an order or only partly and also possible that her behavior here was an order or a mix. Did seem like she was trying a bit hard to put up distance between her and Shu which would line up with her getting orders to. Of course possible everything is an order so who knows .