The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 9]

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by ac195

Is something that gets people talking and thinking really that bad? It may have been a "bad experience" for you... but it was still an experience that made you feel you had to share your opinions with others.

You're not following at all here are you.

Let me ask you this, what point were you trying to make by saying that Haruhi was an experience and not entertainment if you've also qualified other anime for the same association? I don't understand what it is that you are trying to make ragers/critics consider here.

[Ninjacat]

Originally Posted by ac195

Is something that gets people talking and thinking really that bad? It may have been a "bad experience" for you... but it was still an experience that made you feel you had to share your opinions with others.



And that's your opinion.

That's some special logic you're using there.

I also share my opinion about Bakemonogatari, Toyo magnitude 8.0, Spice and Wolf and Needless. My willingness of speaking about Haruhi is somewhat special why? Especially considering I'm more willing to talk about Bakemonogatari and Spice and Wolf?

What are the themes of Endless Eight? What is its message? What makes it a work of art instead of a publicity stunt?

[BBOvenGuy]

Homework?

You mean... that's it?

A month and a half, and that's the answer?

HOMEWORK???

Well, okay... maybe not. My take on the ending is that what Haruhi really wanted was to spend one more day with the SOS Brigade, and for it to be someone else's idea. Yes, I know she chewed Kyon out for making decisions without her, but I think what she really wanted subconsciously was for someone else to say they wanted the gang to get together, without her having to drag them all around. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

However... that doesn't mean the whole Bataan Death March that was "Endless Eight" was worth it. Heck, I only watched three of the episodes myself - the first two and then this one.

My problem with "Endless Eight" is that it gave us too good a look at just how pathetic all these characters really are. The comedy in a story like this only works if you don't really notice the characters' weaknesses. I remember the final episode of Seinfeld being panned by a lot of critics for this very same reason.

What have we learned through "Endless Eight?" Haruhi may be a god, but she's a reckless and selfish tyrant of a god. Mikuru is a wuss. Koizumi is a suck-up. Yuki is like a computer, running the same do-loop over and over because no one has told her to stop. And Kyon doesn't seem to give a darn about anything.

This is not the cast of characters I want to spend half an hour per week with. Yes, they're the same characters we saw three years ago, but back then, these particular traits weren't in the spotlight for all to see. And after what we've all endured, I'm not sure these traits can go back and hide in the shadows again.

[zato_1one]

I wonder what 's the feeling of those who try so hard to analyze and draw some in-depth theories from the minor different details in each past episodes. Only to find out that doing homework is a solution which isn't different in novel.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by ac195

Well, if you are going along this line of thought... you are wrong... it's primary purpose is to create revenue.

I guess I am , then let me rephrase it. To viewers its main purpose is to entertain and for the companies to make revenue.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

I guess I am , then let me rephrase it. To viewers its main purpose is to entertain and for the companies to make revenue.

Hmmmm....now that we've gone from the purpose of Haruhi being entertainment, to it being an artistic experience, to it just being about making revenue (how and why we got from consumer side of the equation to the production side I'm not sure), I wonder what else I'm going to find out that we've been wrong about.

[ac195]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

You're not following at all here are you.

Let me ask you this, what point were you trying to make by saying that Haruhi was an experience and not entertainment if you've also qualified other anime for the same association? I don't understand what it is that you are trying to make ragers/critics consider here.

Nothing, I'm just saying if it's something that evoked some kind of emotion out of you... it can't be all that bad... it made you feel something and that in itself is something.

Hell, this is the first time I've seen a series (well excluding w/e new hot shonen title is being milked for all it's worth...) create such strong emotions in fans that didn't even bother to watch the episode. I couldn't help but think... "Wow, Haruhi is that powerful?"

Endless Eight knocked everyone on their ass... it gave us yet another peak at the ugly underbelly of the world of anime... And it won't be forgotten for sometime...

And once again to be completely honest I have no idea why anyone would complain about more Haruhi... The anime industry is running out of quality titles to adapt... seriously, look at all the sources they have tapped just in the past couple years... The future holds a much more bleak picture.

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

I wonder what 's the feeling of those who try so hard to analyze and draw some in-depth theories from the minor different details in each past episodes. Only to find out that doing homework is a solution which isn't different in novel.

Heh.

The thing with Haruhi, sometimes it's best not to read too much into it. I sort of played along with it, and my guess actually proved to be right... which is both sad and awesome at the same time. Of course, the real reason isn't just about not doing one's homework, but it's still pretty silly when you think about it.

I also commented that the only way that this concept of episode looping would be accepted by most is if the payoff at the end will be worth it. I'm afraid the payoff isn't that great if this thread is to go by, but those who were able to play along (heck, I skipped a few episodes) probably wouldn't dwell too much about it.

Despite the story having a few heavy themes once in a while, ultimately this series is really just an entertaining time waster to me. I just think some folks have placed this series on a pedestal that's too high. I just don't consider this as a serious piece of work, just a fun series overall.

[Marion]

Thank God Endless Eight is Over. Seriously. Even Hitler hated it.

Anyways I didn't like the episode. I felt it was sorta a lame way to get out of the arc. After all the hints about planes and what not we get "Oh I didn't finish my homework" and tada.

I feel the worst for Yuki myself. 9 episodes of Endless Eight doesn't seem to compare to 15,000+ reloops of Endless Eight. I would have shot myself or something

Anyways, Hitler raging in the above link summed up my thoughts and rage. I give the episode a 4/10. Thank god it's over.

[calorie]

So it was that. The first damn thing that came to mind when I'd started wondering what made Haruhi slice out the time portion around the summer vacation.

I gave this episode a 7, though I think it maybe deserves less. No one can possibly find this a satisfying denouement, especially those who've watched every episode so far. Oh well, life goes on.

[Ninjacat]

Originally Posted by ac195

And once again to be completely honest I have no idea why anyone would complain about more Haruhi... The anime industry is running out of quality titles to adapt... seriously, look at all the sources they have tapped just in the past couple years... The future holds a much more bleak picture.

Bakemonogatari, Tokyo Magnitude 8.0, Canaan, Spice and Wolf, Guin Saga...

Oh yes, the future looks very bleak indeed.

[ac195]

Originally Posted by Ninjacat

I also share my opinion about Bakemonogatari, Toyo magnitude 8.0, Spice and Wolf and Needless. My willingness of speaking about Haruhi is somewhat special why? Especially considering I'm more willing to talk about Bakemonogatari and Spice and Wolf?

What are the themes of Endless Eight? What is its message? What makes it a work of art instead of a publicity stunt?

Why would someone keep coming back... week after week... to complain about something they didn't care about...

They wouldn't... unless they cared...

Originally Posted by Ninjacat

Bakemonogatari, Tokyo Magnitude 8.0, Canaan, Spice and Wolf, Guin Saga...

Oh yes, the future looks very bleak indeed.

I think the Guin Saga author died... And that's just the immediate future... If you noticed the amount of good vs bad anime produced every year... yeah, bleak...

[Ninjacat]

Originally Posted by ac195

Why would someone keep coming back... week after week... to complain about something they didn't care about...

They wouldn't... unless they cared...

It doesn't mean they necessarily care about the arc, just that they care about the franchise.

You didn't answer my question by the way, what makes it more than a publicity stunt?

I think the Guin Saga author died... And that's just the immediate future... If you noticed the amount of good vs bad anime produced every year... yeah, bleak...

You know what they say about nostalgia and rose-colored glasses. Most of past and current anime is quite bad overall, we just remember the good ones because, well, that's how the brain works. What was so great about anime five years ago?

[ac195]

Originally Posted by Ninjacat

You didn't answer my question by the way, what makes it more than a publicity stunt?

Opinion.

[resoLv777]

I guess the Endless Eight arc makes sense if we realize it is only a small portion of the iterations leading up to Kyon's Epiphany. Nevertheless, I think it was luck that led him to act so quickly (This could have been the 999,837th iteration or something).

[Ninjacat]

Originally Posted by ac195

Opinion.

Thank you for your articulate and detailed analysis. I am now enlightened.

[ac195]

Originally Posted by Ninjacat

Thank you for your articulate and detailed analysis. I am now enlightened.

Critics will always be critics.

[Dante of the Inferno]

Originally Posted by resoLv777

I guess the Endless Eight arc makes sense if we realize it is only a small portion of the iterations leading up to Kyon's Epiphany. Nevertheless, I think it was luck that led him to act so quickly (This could have been the 999,837th iteration or something).

Once again, homework saves the day.



Let that be a lesson to the slackers of the world.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by ac195

Nothing, I'm just if it's something that evoked some kind of emotion out of you... it can't be all that bad... it made you feel something and that in itself is something.

Hell, this is the first time I've seen a series (well excluding w/e new hot shonen title is being milked for all it's worth...) create such strong emotions in fans that didn't even bother to watch the episode. I couldn't help but think... "Wow, Haruhi is that powerful?"

Endless Eight knocked everyone on their ass... it gave us yet another peak at the ugly underbelly of the world of anime... And it won't be forgotten for sometime...

And once again to be completely honest I have no idea why anyone would complain about more Haruhi... The anime industry is running out of quality titles to adapt... seriously, look at all the sources they have tapped just in the past couple years... The future holds a much more bleak picture.

Well not everybody looks upon Haruhi as an ultra high quality title, some of us just watch it because it can be fun. Lately though the general quality seems to have been seperated from the show, the fun factor has been going down and you could say I feel that the title is now being milked for all it's worth and turned into a marketing gimmick rather than being handled with care like the first season was. Something doesn't need to be shonen in order to evoke that feeling and I don't see how Haruhi/Kyoani is immune to similar to shortcomings or failures depending on how they execute things. Actually I think a whole lot of this rage would have been avoided if people had just allowed themselves to accept that neither is invincible and it's all human created.

As for those strong emotions, that reflects more on the fanbase then it does on the show I think. I think it has little to do with a universal power of the show so much as that many viewers are easily driven to extremes in opinion and emotion when it comes to ultra popular hyped shows. I've seen it many times before and this is why I don't think it's Haruhi that is the experience, but the forum going and discussion that is. You were right the second time in my eyes, but again that goes for any form of media we come here to discuss.

I've also seen enough of the ugly underbelly of anime fandom that Endless Eight didn't leave much of an impact on me in that regard, but rather has simply managed reconfirmed what I'm already well aware of and put these elements on the centre stage for everyone else to see. It didn't knock me on my ass but for the fact that I never once in my life dreamed that Kyoani/Haruhi fans could express discontent with an arc or that they could *gasp* criticize it/them for anything let alone so heavily. I'll give you that....THAT was an experience, but again it was forum side.

One last thing I want to mention is that obviously it made me feel something, but I don't necessarily equate that with being worthwhile when it came to the show. I've felt a lot better about a lot of anime, and thought a lot harder about a lot of anime that I can tell when something triggers my medicore senses. Thus I don't see any reason you have mentioned that would preclude me from being critical of it.

[ac195]

Originally Posted by Dante of the Inferno

Once again, homework saves the day.



Let that be a lesson to the slackers of the world.

I love the irony of the repeated "We can't get back the time we spend now..." lectures at the beginning of each episode.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Well not everybody looks upon Haruhi as an ultra high quality title, some of us just watch it because it can be fun. Lately though the general quality seems to have been seperated from the show, the fun factor has been going down and you could say I feel that the title is now being milked for all it's worth and turned into a marketing gimmick rather than being handled with care like the first season was. Something doesn't need to be shonen in order to evoke that feeling and I don't see how Haruhi/Kyoani is immune to similar to shortcomings or failures depending on how they execute things. Actually I think a whole lot of this rage would have been avoided if people had just allowed themselves to accept that neither is invincible and it's all human created.

As for those strong emotions, that reflects more on the fanbase then it does on the show I think. I think it has little to do with a universal power of the show so much as that many viewers are easily driven to extremes in opinion and emotion when it comes to ultra popular hyped shows. I've seen it many times before and this is why I don't think it's Haruhi that is the experience, but the forum going and discussion that is. You were right the second time in my eyes, but again that goes for any form of media we come here to discuss.

I've also seen enough of the ugly underbelly of anime fandom that Endless Eight didn't leave much of an impact on me in that regard, but rather has simply managed reconfirmed what I'm already well aware of and put these elements on the centre stage for everyone else to see. It didn't knock me on my ass but for the fact that I never once in my life dreamed that Kyoani/Haruhi fans could express discontent with an arc or that they could *gasp* criticize it/them for anything let alone so heavily. I'll give you that....THAT was an experience, but again it was forum side.

One last thing I want to mention is that obviously it made me feel something, but I don't necessarily equate that with being worthwhile when it came to the show. I've felt a lot better about a lot of anime, and thought a lot harder about a lot of anime that I can tell when something triggers my medicore senses. Thus I don't see any reason you have mentioned that would preclude me from being critical of it.

Once again, no matter how much of a fan I am... I could never produce this much text in a single post (positive or negative). You must really care.