2010-02-23, 12:45 | Link #6221 | |
Disabled By Request
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Scandinavian countries are even better. To me, they're the best examples of how social programs should work in a country. They have some of the best healthcare programs as well, on top of that. I've always been under the opinion healthcare is a basic human right. They are a great example of how government does what it should do and take care of its people, both the employed and unemployed. |
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2010-02-23, 12:57 | Link #6222 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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2010-02-23, 12:59 | Link #6223 | |
Banned
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This is okay with you, right? You didn't respond to my post. I wanted a job, and I looked everywhere, even craigslist. I sent my resume off to HUNDREDS of craigslist ads over the course of a year I was out of work. I usually got back that the position was filled. And once I did get a job, I was no longer on "government handouts" but earning my own keep again. If I didn't have "Government handouts" I probably would have turned to crime, and just taken what I wanted from you to keep myself afloat. You want to live in a nation of criminals? Because that's the REAL end result of what you are proposing. And the government is not going to go bankrupt. They'll just print more money, which will deflate your value. |
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2010-02-23, 13:09 | Link #6224 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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2010-02-23, 14:08 | Link #6225 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Cutting the safety net would end up putting both the good and bad in the same boat. I can say for certain that without my job years ago, my family would of been in that same scenario including myself. If another country asks us for help from say a natural disaster, I wouldn't be against it. But first things first, we should worry about supporting ourselves before starting wars with anyone else especially if they don't want our help in the first place. Even if the debt can't be eliminated, at least it would go to keep the safety net operational, or some other worthy cause.
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2010-02-23, 14:11 | Link #6226 | |
Rawrrr!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CH aka Chocaholic Heaven
Age: 40
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But yet they all are highly industrialized nations with the World's highest standards of living and education, despite obvious disparities in the distribution of natural resources. It's true that the Swedish Social Democracy has it's limits regarding the Socialist component, especially when taxing over 100% drove away a fair share of the country's elites. I think their relative success relies more on cultural values, particularly on how competition and the individual and its place within the society are considered. Social Democracy comes into varying blends across Scandinavian and Germanic countries, yet they all share a same "atmosphere": that of an almost absolute safety, but for some the set tracks can be perceived as constraining (my point one view is from Switzerland, the southernmost Germanic country, which is also the lowest on the Socialist component, with a % of federal revenue on GDP being only a few points over that of the US). It's especially clear when you compare them with neighboring Latin and Slavs countries and even Anglo-Saxon. And last time I checked, the United States of America had way more oil and other natural resources than several highly developed European countries, and were even spending more money per capita on health or education programs, yet...
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Last edited by JMvS; 2010-02-23 at 17:02. Reason: clarity |
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2010-02-23, 14:21 | Link #6227 | |
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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I think it's also interesting to note that some of the European social safety nets aren't actually that generous to freeloaders - one of the Dutch guys I worked with a couple years back told me that you lose eligibility for social benefits (although he didn't specify which) after turning down three job offers.
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2010-02-23, 14:54 | Link #6230 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Yes and no.The government's job is what the people say it is. More or less.
Besides, even from a purely selfish point of view, there are reasons to have social safety nets: - social unrest costs money. Balancing that against the money cost by social programs is, of course, not an exact science. - having an available workforce when the economy picks up is better for the industry than having lots and lots of homeless beggars. |
2010-02-23, 20:49 | Link #6235 | |
Senior Member
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Crime is not just a byproduct of homelessness or being poor. It is a result of lack of values, mental instability, or just flat out lack of goodness in a person. I don't care how poor you are. You do not have the right to take from someone else. Keep supporting your social programs. It'll just speed up this country's economic collapse. |
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2010-02-23, 21:00 | Link #6236 | ||
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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which is cheaper. 1. giving someone like Kaijo a bit of help when he was unemployed for 1yr, so he has a chance of becoming a tax-paying productive citizen again or 2. sentence Kaijo to 10 yr in prison for arm robbery for trying to rob a convenience store to pay for food. i not asking about right or wrong and whether kaijo should have save more or spend less. But which option cost society less?
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2010-02-23, 21:19 | Link #6237 | |
Banned
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You can't stay awake 24/7; you will be vulnerable. Someone who wants to do you harm, and take your stuff, CAN do it. You can't stop them, no matter how much you'd like to believe it would. Or hell, I just make some pipe bombs, smash your bedroom window and toss them through to land on your bed. Before you realize what they are, you just lost your legs. A gun may stop a bumbler, but to someone who actually spends a few minutes to think things out, it's useless. I especially like your " I don't care how poor you are. You do not have the right to take from someone else" line. Dude, have you listened to yourself? You're basically proposing that MIGHT MAKES RIGHT. If I can take your stuff and blow you in half, that's my right. Why? Because I can do it and you can't stop me. You haven't really worked out this "Anarchy " line of thought, and where it leads. Hell, I'm as anti-government as they come, and I still realize what benefits the government provides. I'll probably be first on the line if a new revolution comes, and may even help instigate one. But at least I can see clearly how things are and recognize the good that government still does. |
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2010-02-23, 21:36 | Link #6238 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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just get out of califas cause his clique/subset will likely hunt and ambush you... |
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2010-02-23, 22:22 | Link #6239 |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
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Justinstrife, you seem to have a selfish regard about social programs, such as welfare and food stamps. I feel they have some value to them, but all you can say is "I am sick of the government taking some money from my paychecks to help some people who don't deserve it". What about those that do quality for such aid and do deserve their services? And there are many that fit in that category. Not everyone milks it for all its worth or abuse the privilege of having these services. If we were to scrap all of these social programs, I'm sure it would lead to a lot of bad results, as others have mentioned. Maybe people shouldn't be too reliant on the government, but I do see some value with these social programs.
JustinStrife, what if you ever became injured or disabled and then felt you needed some social aid for daily living? It could certainly happen. I'm sure there have been many who were against social programs who fell into that predicament and then sought aid from a social program and then felt that there is some value to these programs afterall. Unfortunately, it takes extreme circumstances and things personally affecting oneself for things to really change ones mind sometimes, no? Edit: Some people suggest that ending such social programs could lead to a big increase in crime across the nation. I'm sure that deduction is correct. That'd be one of many bad results from scraping them. If anything, maybe they should just be stricter on who qualifies for aid. Why be so extreme as to out-right end it when the middle ground and fair course of action could be to minimize the recipients of such aid and only give it to those who truly qualify (or at the least, the government can try harder to ensure this as much as possible). First, not all people on those programs are leeches; only those who abuse it and don't try to get off those programs are leeching the system. Second, you wanna deal with leeches in this country, we should really focus more on illegal immigrants who leech off the system. Deal more with them and minimizing that problem. If you feel that way about illegal immigrants, we see eye to eye on that.
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2010-02-23 at 22:48. |
2010-02-24, 00:09 | Link #6240 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: China
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If I may say, the tone of the discussion on the social programs in the U.S. has gotten a bit out of hand, IMHO. Perhaps a time-out would be good?
Experts say the U.S. must do more to secure the Internet Quote:
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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