AnimeSuki Forums

Shiroth · 2007-09-19, 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

That's what irked me the most. I liked her character in the first season, but in the second season every time she appeared it was worthless.

Out of everything in this second season, she is the character that could have done with a bit more work. Half of it was just her jumping around the place, showing of her body. That makes for great humor, the kind i like in ZnT --- though its not good when its pretty much all we see from that one character. We know she loves Saito, and her body is something she has other Louise, but damn girl, you're not going to win a guy over like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

I don't know what it is, but catgirl Louise disturbs me for some reason. Many things just don't seem right about it.

I'm going to pretend i didn't hear that. :3

X10A_Freedom · 2007-09-19, 07:14

This series had excellent source material which was actually used!

People, including myself are disatisfied with the way the source material was used. The Agnes story is actually in the novels as far as I know but the pacing was just erratic. The flow of this series is as smooth as Louise's knitting in season 1 (episode 09).

JagdPanther · 2007-09-19, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by X10A_Freedom

People, including myself are disatisfied with the way the source material was used. The Agnes story is actually in the novels as far as I know but the pacing was just erratic. The flow of this series is as smooth as Louise's knitting in season 1 (episode 09).

Agreed. Some episodes were too slow, others too fast, almost none just right...

Phoenix14 · 2007-09-19, 15:43

I still hope for a third season...

I don't think the pacing was THAT bad...even if (Yes I did notice) the pacing was a little off, I still liked it.

Cruel · 2007-09-19, 23:58

I've also really loved the series so far. Pacing doesn't have to be perfect, but if there is no 3rd season then they screwed themselves on it! There's still so much that can't be described in one episode.

Please do not be a rushed ending.

Darknemo2000 · 2007-09-20, 02:00

Well, if you read novels than you will feel that the ending will be rushed since there is still plenty of things and they have to ignore them to get to the final scene. And no, they cant use those later, in lets say season no 3, simply because it would change a lot of things.

This episode maybe felt good for anime only watchers but for me it wasn't that satisfying as i saw many of good scenes getting rushed into a single episode without getting much attention. Comparing it with incredibly boring Agnes part it seems not fair. I think that agnes story should have taken one well maybe two episodes at best, but not half of the season.

If only the season would be longer it would have never been a problem, but now... they are just rushing good scenes trying to put them in as much as they can into a single episode... Really awful.

And the last episode

Spoiler for Guess:

And wheres Agnes, wasnt her sub-plot the main focus of the season ? Shouldnt they remind us of her more, if they want to be at least partly reasonable.

i understand, than now they re back to Saito/Louise (novels never lost the focus on them to begin with) but the wrong pacing feels bad since now you cant understand what was the meaning of Agnes plot as it makes no difference, even though it took half of the season away.

Shiroth · 2007-09-20, 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

And wheres Agnes, wasnt her sub-plot the main focus of the season ? Shouldnt they remind us of her more, if they want to be at least partly reasonable.

She was in this episode, doing her job.

Sorrow-K · 2007-09-20, 07:33

This episode did have a lot of good in it, particular from the perspective of relationship development, since there were a couple of really good analyses of the differences between Saito and Louise and why they impinge on their relationship, the conversation between Louise and Derflinger being the best example of that... a scene that surprisingly had some really well written dialogue. On that note, Derflinger really is a great character. He needs more screentime.

But, as others have pointed out, it was all simply too rushed, and I think it's safe to say a lot of us saw this coming, thanks to all the pointless and poorly paced episodes before this. But, I think, even worse than that, is what's happened to Siesta's character in this series. She's gone from a legitimate third wheel to a completely silly and pointless character that's just there for fanservice and to stall progress between Saito and Louise. It's really quite sad.

However, overall, I think the good slightly outweighed the bad in this ep. More eps like this earlier on in the series, and I doubt people would have complained about this as nearly as much.

Ashlotte · 2007-09-20, 12:34

God is this show feeling like a rushed mess of a trainwreck right now...It doesn't help that theres only 12 episodes, but they atleast could of done well to cut out all of the agnes crap and try to stick with the war.

Best way to put I guess is the show feels like it has no narrative flow right now...Just kinda stumbling from one plot point to another rather clumsily while not letting me really care one way or another what happens to most of these characters...

Darknemo2000 · 2007-09-20, 15:38

You missed my point, Shiroth... I wanted that they would make the sub-plot of Agnes more substantial if they have let the bigger half of this season go waste just for sake of it... But now its not really important at all... They should follow up their own makings..If the make some plot take half of the season then ceter and show us more connected to it in the ending...If they dont plan on using it in the ending then dont focus on it so much to begin with...Make it one or max two episodes from it but not half of the season...

I am bit sad that this episode rushes out through many good scenes without really focusing on any of it..Like I would have liked to see that Louise/Saito scene in the beginning when they get angry on each other during festival...

You see in novels

Spoiler for novels:

yet it was totally ignored in the anime due to time limits as they now need to rush as much scenes as they can to show at least half of them before the final scene.

Each of the scenes in this episodes were much longer but was cut down due to time limits horribly which made it look rather jumpy without creating one steady flow...

But I guess its their own fault for screwing up with Agnes sub-plot without thinking about the future.

Shiroth · 2007-09-20, 15:41

Hmm..

I know where you're coming from, honestly i do --- though i'm still going to sit back, and enjoy this version of the story. So its not 100% like the novels, that doesn't bother me, i can still enjoy this anime adaptation for what it is.

So yeah, you can stop pointing out everything wrong about this --- we're all fully aware, and people still enjoy it. :3

Darknemo2000 · 2007-09-20, 15:54

Well i wouldnt be able to enjoy it even if i havent read novels... Even if you were a very insensitive person about the flow, you HAVE to notice at least a few abrubt jumps from one scene to another, especially lately when they try to put as many scenes as the can in a single episode...

Also you should notice how charcters do not really match the first season Saito or Siesta specially...They really overdid with pervert Saito in the second season... And I am not going to talk about Siesta.

All that makes this season quite less enjoyble than the first season even if you haven't read novels...

Unless you are one of those lucky persons that are blissfully ignorant about anime flows and can still enjoy a horribly rushed or flawed anime without caring about it... Those people are really lucky as they can enjoy any anime without getting frustrated no matter how crappy it might be...Sadly I am not one of them, lol.

Ashlotte · 2007-09-20, 20:30

Well I personally haven't read the novels although it seems like I should from what people say here...Either way I'm just annoyed with it because its bad storytelling pretty plain and simple. Not really anything to do with "Its missing X scenes from the novel etc. etc.".

Just seems like a shame is all I guess...They could of done alot more with the story and characters. Well there better at least be a nice saito x louise ending tragic or otherwise...

Darknemo2000 · 2007-09-21, 23:12

Thats the point I am arguing about. Shiroth misunderstand me as he takes that my criticism is based on simple whining that this scene is missing that scene from novels...But its not like that. My main point is that the whole season is kind of rushed , doesnt have a constant flow or anything. Even characters transform.

If the anime would feel right believe me I would not be whining as much as I am. Its not because of scenes it missed but because of scenes it has that doesnt look right. And sadly this whole season doesnt look right.

They rushed too much of good scenes while focusing on fillers or sub-plots. Yeah last episode felt better but only because it had many good scenes in it that were cut-down and wold make a good single episodes instead of being put in one, which felt rather abrubt and weird at least for me.

Also it looks better, because after being fed with fillers or subplots without any character development that usually end up with same lame joke of Louise exploding on Saito , ANY change would feel better.

I am hoping for a rushed ending that would crown this rather useless season that felt more like a bad filler in general.

zero7090 · 2007-09-22, 08:30

i would like see more development between siesta, saito and louise but seem they are too russhed. 1 more espido to the end of season 2 but there is only the last screen siesta with saito satified me .
btw: louise said too much thing about die and die which irritate me. i wonder she like slaughter and killing that much

htsuji · 2007-09-24, 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by htsuji

I watched the episode 11 and got a feeling that the anime company was planing the third season because

Spoiler for episode 11:

Now I watched the episode 12... Oops. I was wrong.

But still, I don't think she will never come again.

Tasdern · 2007-09-24, 14:12

There is a kiss scene in the OP that has not been shown yet. Unless it is in ep12, we are probably looking at a 3rd seasons that or some OVAs. They may have already made the other episodes. This whole season had a 26 EP feel to it. I'm very suprised that it is only 12 episodes.

Is the novel translated and if so, how can I find it? I've been looking for it but I not having much luck.

View Poll Results: Zero no Tsukaima (second series) - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10	10	21.28%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	8	17.02%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	11	23.40%
7 out of 10 : Good	11	23.40%
6 out of 10 : Average	5	10.64%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	1	2.13%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	1	2.13%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

2007-09-20, 02:00	Link #46
Darknemo2000 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lithuania Age: 39	Well, if you read novels than you will feel that the ending will be rushed since there is still plenty of things and they have to ignore them to get to the final scene. And no, they cant use those later, in lets say season no 3, simply because it would change a lot of things. This episode maybe felt good for anime only watchers but for me it wasn't that satisfying as i saw many of good scenes getting rushed into a single episode without getting much attention. Comparing it with incredibly boring Agnes part it seems not fair. I think that agnes story should have taken one well maybe two episodes at best, but not half of the season. If only the season would be longer it would have never been a problem, but now... they are just rushing good scenes trying to put them in as much as they can into a single episode... Really awful. And the last episode Spoiler for Guess: I am guessing will have marriage scene AND the fight scene? Its just so stupid, since both scene still need some building making them worth for at least a single episode each... And wheres Agnes, wasnt her sub-plot the main focus of the season ? Shouldnt they remind us of her more, if they want to be at least partly reasonable. i understand, than now they re back to Saito/Louise (novels never lost the focus on them to begin with) but the wrong pacing feels bad since now you cant understand what was the meaning of Agnes plot as it makes no difference, even though it took half of the season away.

2007-09-20, 07:33	Link #48
Sorrow-K Somehow I found out Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 40	This episode did have a lot of good in it, particular from the perspective of relationship development, since there were a couple of really good analyses of the differences between Saito and Louise and why they impinge on their relationship, the conversation between Louise and Derflinger being the best example of that... a scene that surprisingly had some really well written dialogue. On that note, Derflinger really is a great character. He needs more screentime. But, as others have pointed out, it was all simply too rushed, and I think it's safe to say a lot of us saw this coming, thanks to all the pointless and poorly paced episodes before this. But, I think, even worse than that, is what's happened to Siesta's character in this series. She's gone from a legitimate third wheel to a completely silly and pointless character that's just there for fanservice and to stall progress between Saito and Louise. It's really quite sad. However, overall, I think the good slightly outweighed the bad in this ep. More eps like this earlier on in the series, and I doubt people would have complained about this as nearly as much. __________________ .:The Nihon Review:.:Ikoku Meiro no Croisée:.:Tamayura: Hitotose:. .:Behind The Nihon Review:.:Understanding Guilty Crown’s Failure:. .:MAL:.:Twitter:.

2007-09-20, 12:34	Link #49
Ashlotte Clockwork Join Date: Oct 2006	God is this show feeling like a rushed mess of a trainwreck right now...It doesn't help that theres only 12 episodes, but they atleast could of done well to cut out all of the agnes crap and try to stick with the war. Best way to put I guess is the show feels like it has no narrative flow right now...Just kinda stumbling from one plot point to another rather clumsily while not letting me really care one way or another what happens to most of these characters... __________________ No matter what enemy. No matter what ally. Mowing everything down with maximum destructive power. That is... "The White Devil of the Administration Bureau"

2007-09-20, 15:38	Link #50
Darknemo2000 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lithuania Age: 39	You missed my point, Shiroth... I wanted that they would make the sub-plot of Agnes more substantial if they have let the bigger half of this season go waste just for sake of it... But now its not really important at all... They should follow up their own makings..If the make some plot take half of the season then ceter and show us more connected to it in the ending...If they dont plan on using it in the ending then dont focus on it so much to begin with...Make it one or max two episodes from it but not half of the season... I am bit sad that this episode rushes out through many good scenes without really focusing on any of it..Like I would have liked to see that Louise/Saito scene in the beginning when they get angry on each other during festival... You see in novels Spoiler for novels: after Louise got seperated from Saito she was attacked by some drunk men and Saito stepped in to protect her, whih lead to some Louise/Saito scene yet it was totally ignored in the anime due to time limits as they now need to rush as much scenes as they can to show at least half of them before the final scene. Each of the scenes in this episodes were much longer but was cut down due to time limits horribly which made it look rather jumpy without creating one steady flow... But I guess its their own fault for screwing up with Agnes sub-plot without thinking about the future.

2007-09-19, 07:14	Link #42
X10A_Freedom Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Neo-Venezia...I wish!	This series had excellent source material which was actually used! People, including myself are disatisfied with the way the source material was used. The Agnes story is actually in the novels as far as I know but the pacing was just erratic. The flow of this series is as smooth as Louise's knitting in season 1 (episode 09).

2007-09-19, 15:43	Link #44
Phoenix14 Clannad Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky, US	I still hope for a third season... I don't think the pacing was THAT bad...even if (Yes I did notice) the pacing was a little off, I still liked it.

2007-09-19, 23:58	Link #45
Cruel Spiff'd Member Join Date: Oct 2006	I've also really loved the series so far. Pacing doesn't have to be perfect, but if there is no 3rd season then they screwed themselves on it! There's still so much that can't be described in one episode. Please do not be a rushed ending.

2007-09-20, 15:41	Link #51
Shiroth Beautiful fighter. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: England, UK Age: 37	Hmm.. I know where you're coming from, honestly i do --- though i'm still going to sit back, and enjoy this version of the story. So its not 100% like the novels, that doesn't bother me, i can still enjoy this anime adaptation for what it is. So yeah, you can stop pointing out everything wrong about this --- we're all fully aware, and people still enjoy it. :3 __________________ MyAnimeList Twitter

2007-09-20, 15:54	Link #52
Darknemo2000 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lithuania Age: 39	Well i wouldnt be able to enjoy it even if i havent read novels... Even if you were a very insensitive person about the flow, you HAVE to notice at least a few abrubt jumps from one scene to another, especially lately when they try to put as many scenes as the can in a single episode... Also you should notice how charcters do not really match the first season Saito or Siesta specially...They really overdid with pervert Saito in the second season... And I am not going to talk about Siesta. All that makes this season quite less enjoyble than the first season even if you haven't read novels... Unless you are one of those lucky persons that are blissfully ignorant about anime flows and can still enjoy a horribly rushed or flawed anime without caring about it... Those people are really lucky as they can enjoy any anime without getting frustrated no matter how crappy it might be...Sadly I am not one of them, lol. Last edited by Darknemo2000; 2007-09-20 at 16:18.

2007-09-20, 20:30	Link #53
Ashlotte Clockwork Join Date: Oct 2006	Well I personally haven't read the novels although it seems like I should from what people say here...Either way I'm just annoyed with it because its bad storytelling pretty plain and simple. Not really anything to do with "Its missing X scenes from the novel etc. etc.". Just seems like a shame is all I guess...They could of done alot more with the story and characters. Well there better at least be a nice saito x louise ending tragic or otherwise... __________________ No matter what enemy. No matter what ally. Mowing everything down with maximum destructive power. That is... "The White Devil of the Administration Bureau"

2007-09-21, 23:12	Link #54
Darknemo2000 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lithuania Age: 39	Thats the point I am arguing about. Shiroth misunderstand me as he takes that my criticism is based on simple whining that this scene is missing that scene from novels...But its not like that. My main point is that the whole season is kind of rushed , doesnt have a constant flow or anything. Even characters transform. If the anime would feel right believe me I would not be whining as much as I am. Its not because of scenes it missed but because of scenes it has that doesnt look right. And sadly this whole season doesnt look right. They rushed too much of good scenes while focusing on fillers or sub-plots. Yeah last episode felt better but only because it had many good scenes in it that were cut-down and wold make a good single episodes instead of being put in one, which felt rather abrubt and weird at least for me. Also it looks better, because after being fed with fillers or subplots without any character development that usually end up with same lame joke of Louise exploding on Saito , ANY change would feel better. I am hoping for a rushed ending that would crown this rather useless season that felt more like a bad filler in general.

2007-09-22, 08:30	Link #55
zero7090 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	i would like see more development between siesta, saito and louise but seem they are too russhed. 1 more espido to the end of season 2 but there is only the last screen siesta with saito satified me . btw: louise said too much thing about die and die which irritate me. i wonder she like slaughter and killing that much

2007-09-24, 14:12	Link #57
Tasdern Kairin fan club member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Age: 57	There is a kiss scene in the OP that has not been shown yet. Unless it is in ep12, we are probably looking at a 3rd seasons that or some OVAs. They may have already made the other episodes. This whole season had a 26 EP feel to it. I'm very suprised that it is only 12 episodes. Is the novel translated and if so, how can I find it? I've been looking for it but I not having much luck. __________________ "When I grow up, I want to be a cartoon." Last edited by Tasdern; 2007-09-24 at 14:13. Reason: Added novel quesiton.