(L) Monogatari Series Light Novel discussion

[Zetsubo]

I just realised I have been misunderstnading and missusing those 3 words for so many years.

1. Misinform

2. Misinterpret

3. Opinion

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

dude.... you are so pessimistic it is alarming.

You need to stop missinforming people.

Well I'll admit that I am kinda pessimistic, since Hitagi does deny her love in the first place. But let's imagine a parallel world where Kaiki did one good deed in his life and helped her just that one time. I'm sure that she would have followed him to the ends of the world and helped him con middle-schoolers out of their pocket money and old people out of their life-savings. The reason I'm saying this is because I think that she blindly falls in love with the person who is nice to her. This has nothing to do with how smart she is and the fact that she can choose her mate and see through his intentions. I'm saying she is the kinda girl that would change herself to match her man......at least that's what I think, but oh well we will never know for sure.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by omimon

Well I'll admit that I am kinda pessimistic, since Hitagi does deny her love in the first place.

Hitagi does deny her love in the first place ?

Where ?

Originally Posted by omimon

But let's imagine a parallel world where Kaiki did one good deed in his life and helped her just that one time.

Helped her how exactly ?

[LotionExplosion]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Helped her how exactly ?

I think he means if in some other dimension that He helped her out, Hitagi would be the girlfriend and since Couple's personality differs from the partner's - Hitagi would help him scam people. Does that make sense?

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by LotionExplosion

I think he means if in some other dimension that He helped her out, Hitagi would be the girlfriend and since Couple's personality differs from the partner's - Hitagi would help him scam people. Does that make sense?

no...............

[LotionExplosion]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

no...............

Hmmm... Then he has to explain what he's trying to say then.. I lost my train of thought

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by LotionExplosion

Hmmm... Then he has to explain what he's trying to say then.. I lost my train of thought

This is my starting point...

Originally Posted by omimon

I don't know if Araragi thinks this way but personally I think the love she has for Koyomi is kinda cheap since she would just do anybody who is remotely nice to her.

This is where I have my problem.

What the hell !!! ???

CHEAP HOW ?

Is he saying Hitagi is easy ?

Does he remember that Hitagi was a VIOLENT, emotionless, oddity cursed girl with serious sexual trauma ?

Who the hell is kind or M enough to put up with this Hitagi even remotely ?

Hitagi put a freaking box cutter Koyomi's mouth and popped a staple in his jaw... just to tell him leave her alone.

AFTER HE SAVED HER FROM A POTENTIALLY DEADLY FALL AND THUS FULlFILLING THE REMOTELY KIND CRITERION.

It is implied in text that she has done this before... I wonder to whom... I suspect even the kindness of Kanbaru faced this violence and ran... thus not getting done by Hitagi.

Sigh

Now I know why Japanese writers like to drag out love affairs with unnecessary drama and angst.

To insert unreasonable trials and tribulations to validate the worth of a relationship and THE WORTH OF THE GIRL

I can't get how they always have to make their heroines virgins to boot.

Her love for Koyomi is cheap ?

Therefore Hitagi is cheap ?

And so Koyomi could do better ?

Are you reading the same story I am ?

Listen Omimon's entire concept has me in a tail spin because I cannot follow it logically.

To steal a phrase and a quote... he is begging the question.

Begging the question is what one does in an argument when one assumes what one claims to be proving.

Omni claims Hitagi would fall for anyone who helped her "since she would just do anyone who was remotely kind to her."

Huh ?

Thats the poof ?

Are you kidding me ?

You know, I opine the author of Bitter Virgin purposely ended the manga that way because of the mind sets like these... apparently the girl is too "damaged worthless" to be worthy of living happily ever after with the main lead male. But thats for another post.


In short I find Omimons opinion disgustingly sexist.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by LotionExplosion

I think he means if in some other dimension that He helped her out, Hitagi would be the girlfriend and since Couple's personality differs from the partner's - Hitagi would help him scam people. Does that make sense?

Actually that is exactly what I am trying to get at.

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

This is my starting point...



This is where I have my problem.

What the hell !!! ???

CHEAP HOW ?

Is he saying Hitagi is easy ?

Does he remember that Hitagi was a VIOLENT, emotionless, oddity cursed girl with serious sexual trauma ?

Who the hell is kind or M enough to put up with this Hitagi even remotely ?

Hitagi put a freaking box cutter Koyomi's mouth and popped a staple in his jaw... just to tell him leave her alone.

AFTER HE SAVED HER FROM A POTENTIALLY DEADLY FALL AND THUS FULlFILLING THE REMOTELY KIND CRITERION.

It is implied in text that she has done this before... I wonder to whom... I suspect even the kindness of Kanbaru faced this violence and ran... thus not getting done by Hitagi.

Sigh

Now I know why Japanese writers like to drag out love affairs with unnecessary drama and angst.

To insert unreasonable trials and tribulations to validate the worth of a relationship and THE WORTH OF THE GIRL

I can't get how they always have to make their heroines virgins to boot.

Her love for Koyomi is cheap ?

Therefore Hitagi is cheap ?

And so Koyomi could do better ?

Are you reading the same story I am ?

Listen Omimon's entire concept has me in a tail spin because I cannot follow it logically.

To steal a phrase and a quote... he is begging the question.

Begging the question is what one does in an argument when one assumes what one claims to be proving.

Omni claims Hitagi would fall for anyone who helped her "since she would just do anyone who was remotely kind to her."

Huh ?

Thats the poof ?

Are you kidding me ?

You know, I opine the author of Bitter Virgin purposely ended the manga that way because of the mind sets like these... apparently the girl is too "damaged worthless" to be worthy of living happily ever after with the main lead male. But thats for another post.


In short I find Omimons opinion disgustingly sexist.

Wow, this discussion is getting a little heated. Okay I'm up for the challenge. Let me start from the beginning. Hitagi is indeed violent and emotionless, but as we saw from Nise 2, she can be really sweet when it boils down to it. Also, the reason why she became violent in the first place is because of the added anger she got from Kaiki and the other 4 con artists. That's why I said in my post that if she was a couple with Kaiki she would be like sugar since there would be no added anger from the lies.

As for her being cheap, well I stand by my statement since SHE HERSELF admits that she would have fallen for him if he did help her. I mean isn't that the definition of cheap, falling for someone for only one thing.

I don't know, I could be wrong.

[ickem]

Originally Posted by omimon

Actually that is exactly what I am trying to get at.



Wow, this discussion is getting a little heated. Okay I'm up for the challenge. Let me start from the beginning. Hitagi is indeed violent and emotionless, but as we saw from Nise 2, she can be really sweet when it boils down to it. Also, the reason why she became violent in the first place is because of the added anger she got from Kaiki and the other 4 con artists. That's why I said in my post that if she was a couple with Kaiki she would be like sugar since there would be no added anger from the lies.

As for her being cheap, well I stand by my statement since SHE HERSELF admits that she would have fallen for him if he did help her. I mean isn't that the definition of cheap, falling for someone for only one thing.

I don't know, I could be wrong.

Attraction usually starts with one thing. The feelings get stronger the better you get to know the person and you find other things that you like about them. This was on display when Koyomi followed through on his offer to help her without expecting anything in return and she became interested in him. When she found out that he wasn't nice to her because it was her and that he would help anyone in distress, her feelings for him deepened. And let us not forget what she said in the rest of her confession, that she wanted to get to know him better and would put forth the effort to do so. So in the end, his kindness was only a starting point and they came to understand each other a lot better, thus strengthening their feelings for each other.

Also she doesn't actually say that she would have fallen for him. She says, "If anyone other than you had saved me, that is a possibility that I could have fallen for them." Semantics, but you keep speaking as if she would have absolutely fallen for him.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by ickem

Attraction usually starts with one thing. The feelings get stronger the better you get to know the person and you find other things that you like about them. This was on display when Koyomi followed through on his offer to help her without expecting anything in return and she became interested in him. When she found out that he wasn't nice to her because it was her and that he would help anyone in distress, her feelings for him deepened. And let us not forget what she said in the rest of her confession, that she wanted to get to know him better and would put forth the effort to do so. So in the end, his kindness was only a starting point and they came to understand each other a lot better, thus strengthening their feelings for each other.

Also she doesn't actually say that she would have fallen for him. She says, "If anyone other than you had saved me, that is a possibility that I could have fallen for them." Semantics, but you keep speaking as if she would have absolutely fallen for him.

Well, "a possibility" a strong term in this case since we are talkng about an event that we don't know if it would have happened or not. I mean right now we are using the present Hitagi to see if the past Hitagi would have done the same thing. My argument is that she would have indeed fallen for him not caring about the fact that he is the root of all evil since he at least showed some good for helping her.

But then again this is a really far off parallel world since Kaiki would never do something like that.

And I guess I pushed it a little far by impling that she would have DEFINITELY fallen for him, but then again he would have done a lot more than what Koyomi did since he would been able to do the ritual too.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by omimon

Actually that is exactly what I am trying to get at.



Wow, this discussion is getting a little heated. Okay I'm up for the challenge. Let me start from the beginning. Hitagi is indeed violent and emotionless, but as we saw from Nise 2, she can be really sweet when it boils down to it. Also, the reason why she became violent in the first place is because of the added anger she got from Kaiki and the other 4 con artists. That's why I said in my post that if she was a couple with Kaiki she would be like sugar since there would be no added anger from the lies.

As for her being cheap, well I stand by my statement since SHE HERSELF admits that she would have fallen for him if he did help her. I mean isn't that the definition of cheap, falling for someone for only one thing.

I don't know, I could be wrong.

It usually starts with one thing.

Then it builds up.

Hitagi says... to steal a phrase... when Kyomi ask why she loves him...

1. That he is kind,
2. That he is cute,
3. That he is like her very own prince who will come running to save her whenever she is in trouble.

If they progress in the future things will build up.

You can also test the validity of her seriousness given that she did threaten to kill Kanbaru if Kanbaru and her devil arm snuffed out Koyomis spark... and she was particularly livid with Koyomi for breaking his very first promise to her.

Listen, A woman falling for a man because of one simple thing is nothing new and very common.

This has has been going on for centuries.

As such authors will use this human behaviour as a common plot device.

In fact... Seal's wife... Heidi Klum... confessed on Oprah that she fell in love with him because she saw him in his swim trunks and loved the size of his package.

Shallow ... perhaps... we can all be arm chair judges... however two kids later I suspect that she is still happy with what she got and continues to get.

One thing... that first spark.

Women are PARTICULAR for that.

Sometimes it may be as simple as the fact that I have very white teeth.

Or I have a nice voice... it is always something simple and apparently trivial.

In fact you parents can tell you. If you have a talk with any of them and ask them why they got together. Ask your mom what really was the selling point in getting with your dad.

Simple no ?

[ellifeedn]

Not to be rude, but I feel you guys are thinking too deeply about this.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by omimon

Well, "a possibility" a strong term in this case since we are talkng about an event that we don't know if it would have happened or not.

Your doing it again.

Creating arguments that I have difficulty understanding.

How can a possiblity be a strong term ?

The very meaning of possibility is that it is a chance that it might happen or be true. It does not have to happen or be true.

I mean right now we are using the present Hitagi to see if the past Hitagi would have done the same thing.

I will admit that doing this is quite a challange and perhaps madness.

My argument is that she would have indeed fallen for him not caring about the fact that he is the root of all evil since he at least showed some good for helping her.

Now we finally have a statement that is a little more logical but still problematic.

How do you know she would not have cared he was the root of all evil ?

Again we beg the question.

Since he showed some good ?

When ?

I will never deny that women do fall in love with evil men. The reason is as simple as "he has a nice smile." In fact many wicked people have very charsimatic personalites.

However Kaiki has shown NO good in him... and shown no good to Hitagi.

He showed her no care... and destroyed her family.

Kaiki's nature, according to how the author has written the story, he loves nothing but money and himself.

Hitagi may even have had a crush on him, as we know con men are quite charismatic, so that would be no shock.

Kaiki by nature is a master of deception. Him seducing Hitagi would be no surprise. However Hitagi said something that proves she is at least frugal with her trust.

When taliing to koyomi about Oshino and the ritual they were going to attend she says...

"If I could believe him that easily. I would have been tricked countless times. Thats why I can never have such optimistic thoughts."

I am sure these thoughts and principles for Hitagi were formed long before she meets Kaiiki

I wager they were formed from the first interactions and failures with the various doctors and religious consultations plus conman#1 then #2 then #3 then #4 by #5 Kaiiki, he encounters a jaded and hardened Hitagi... which irconically is what he considers her best trait.

And I guess I pushed it a little far by impling that she would have DEFINITELY fallen for him, but then again he would have done a lot more than what Koyomi did since he would been able to do the ritual too.

Really, Kaiki is as capable as Oshino ?

Then why did he not do the ritual ?

Is Kaiki able to deuce the nuances of the crabgod, how Hitagi got mixed up with it and and how to handle an impatient oddity that attempted to kill Hitagi because she didn't know what to say ?

Is he that skilled ?

Or does he only have amatureish half assed knowledge ?

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by ellifeedn

Not to be rude, but I feel you guys are thinking too deeply about this.

I agree... but its fun isn't it

[ickem]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Your doing it again.

Creating arguments that I have difficulty understanding.

How can a possiblity be a strong term ?

The very meaning of possibility is that it is a chance that it might happen or be true. It does not have to happen or be true.



I will admit that doing this is quite a challange and perhaps madness.



Now we finally have a statement that is a little more logical but still problematic.

How do you know she would not have cared he was the root of all evil ?

Again we beg the question.

Since he showed some good ?

When ?

I will never deny that women do fall in love with evil men. The reason is as simple as "he has a nice smile." In fact many wicked people have very charsimatic personalites.

However Kaiki has shown NO good in him... and shown no good to Hitagi.

He showed her no care... and destroyed her family.

Kaiki's nature, according to how the author has written the story, he loves nothing but money and himself.

Hitagi may even have had a crush on him, as we know con men are quite charismatic, so that would be no shock.

Kaiki by nature is a master of deception. Him seducing Hitagi would be no surprise. However Hitagi said something that proves she is at least frugal with her trust.

When taliing to koyomi about Oshino and the ritual they were going to attend she says...

"If I could believe him that easily. I would have been tricked countless times. Thats why I can never have such optimistic thoughts."

I am sure these thoughts and principles for Hitagi were formed long before she meets Kaiiki

I wager they were formed from the first interactions and failures with the various doctors and religious consultations plus conman#1 then #2 then #3 then #4 by #5 Kaiiki, he encounters a jaded and hardened Hitagi... which irconically is what he considers her best trait.



Really, Kaiki is as capable as Oshino ?

Then why did he not do the ritual ?

Is Kaiki able to deuce the nuances of the crabgod, how Hitagi got mixed up with it and and how to handle an impatient oddity that attempted to kill Hitagi because she didn't know what to say ?

Is he that skilled ?

Or does he only have amatureish half assed knowledge ?

If I remember right Kaiki was the first of the conmen. That's why he elicits such strong emotions in Hitagi.

Nobody is as skilled as Oshino. He ran circles around everyone else without trying.

Spoiler for Kizu:

He's somebody that stole Kissshot's heart without her noticing. Of course he made sure to be far away when she got all her powers back though.

With that said though, Kaiki isn't a pushover so he might have been able to do something if he truly wanted to.

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

I agree... but its fun isn't it

I agree that it is damned fun. I haven't done close readings since college so it's nice to sometimes brush off the rust.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Your doing it again.

Creating arguments that I have difficulty understanding.

How can a possiblity be a strong term ?

The very meaning of possibility is that it is a chance that it might happen or be true. It does not have to happen or be true.



I will admit that doing this is quite a challange and perhaps madness.



Now we finally have a statement that is a little more logical but still problematic.

How do you know she would not have cared he was the root of all evil ?

Again we beg the question.

Since he showed some good ?

When ?

I will never deny that women do fall in love with evil men. The reason is as simple as "he has a nice smile." In fact many wicked people have very charsimatic personalites.

However Kaiki has shown NO good in him... and shown no good to Hitagi.

He showed her no care... and destroyed her family.

Kaiki's nature, according to how the author has written the story, he loves nothing but money and himself.

Hitagi may even have had a crush on him, as we know con men are quite charismatic, so that would be no shock.

Kaiki by nature is a master of deception. Him seducing Hitagi would be no surprise. However Hitagi said something that proves she is at least frugal with her trust.

When taliing to koyomi about Oshino and the ritual they were going to attend she says...

"If I could believe him that easily. I would have been tricked countless times. Thats why I can never have such optimistic thoughts."

I am sure these thoughts and principles for Hitagi were formed long before she meets Kaiiki

I wager they were formed from the first interactions and failures with the various doctors and religious consultations plus conman#1 then #2 then #3 then #4 by #5 Kaiiki, he encounters a jaded and hardened Hitagi... which irconically is what he considers her best trait.



Really, Kaiki is as capable as Oshino ?

Then why did he not do the ritual ?

Is Kaiki able to deuce the nuances of the crabgod, how Hitagi got mixed up with it and and how to handle an impatient oddity that attempted to kill Hitagi because she didn't know what to say ?

Is he that skilled ?

Or does he only have amatureish half assed knowledge ?

The reason I say that "a possibility" is a strong term is because it could mean 1% to 99%, I mean we don't know how strong that possibility is when Hitagi said it.

As ickem has mentioned, nobody is as good as Oshino but since they were both in the same occult club I'm sure he knows his fair share of stuff. I mean he was the one who started Nadeko's curse.

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

I agree... but its fun isn't it

Originally Posted by ickem

I agree that it is damned fun. I haven't done close readings since college so it's nice to sometimes brush off the rust.

I'm happy that I can be an opponent.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by omimon

The reason I say that "a possibility" is a strong term is because it could mean 1% to 99%, I mean we don't know how strong that possibility is when Hitagi said it.

A possiblity is a possiblity... however, when talking about probability.

Using possibility as if it were the word probability is really a bad habit of English speakers.

English is full of bad habits.

As ickem has mentioned, nobody is as good as Oshino but since they were both in the same occult club I'm sure he knows his fair share of stuff.

Yet he chooses not to help Hitagi ?

He fails as a sympathetic and empathetic human.

That is why I dissagree with your idea that Hitagi would end up dating a venal creature like Kaiki even if he had "remotely helped her".

Araragi is both a sympathetic and empathetic person by nature. Seomtimes too empathetic (can lead to self sacrifical tendency) however this, this kindness is what Hitagi wants for herself and is inlove with firstly.

1. That he is kind,
2. That he is cute,
3. That he is like her very own prince who will come running to save her whenever she is in trouble.

I want you to pay attention to number 3 also.

Kaiki is not the sort to even remotely (to use the word again) provide Hitagi with #3.

All women want a sense of security. Especially in Hitagi's case, given that her family is messed up, she has sexual trauma to deal with, and is quite lonely and fragile. Her violence and acid tongue is essentially a defense mechanisim that provides that security along with staying to herself to keep her secret.

I entreat you to read

MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING

By: William Shakespeare

There is a character in it that is in some aspects very similar to Hitagi. Her name is Beatirce.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

A possiblity is a possiblity... however, when talking about probability.

Using possibility as if it were the word probability is really a bad habit of English speakers.

English is full of bad habits.



Yet he chooses not to help Hitagi ?

He fails as a sympathetic and empathetic human.

That is why I dissagree with your idea that Hitagi would end up dating a venal creature like Kaiki even if he had "remotely helped her".

Araragi is both a sympathetic and empathetic person by nature. Seomtimes too empathetic (can lead to self sacrifical tendency) however this, this kindness is what Hitagi wants for herself and is inlove with firstly.

1. That he is kind,
2. That he is cute,
3. That he is like her very own prince who will come running to save her whenever she is in trouble.

I want you to pay attention to number 3 also.

Kaiki is not the sort to even remotely (to use the word again) provide Hitagi with #3.

All women want a sense of security. Especially in Hitagi's case, given that her family is messed up, she has sexual trauma to deal with, and is quite lonely and fragile. Her violence and acid tongue is essentially a defense mechanisim that provides that security along with staying to herself to keep her secret.

I entreat you to read

MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING

By: William Shakespeare

There is a character in it that is in some aspects very similar to Hitagi. Her name is Beatirce.

Well, I thought that we all knew that Kaiki was a terrible excuse for a human being..... but putting that aside. Now Kaiki acts this way (being evil) is because he sees that there is money to gain from it. Kaiki also admits that he is fond of the dark aura Hitagi had. Now I think we can all agree that Hitagi is a bright apple that has her fair share of smarts. Don't you think that it is possible for Kaiki to fake his love for Hitagi so that he can use her smarts to help him con others? I mean no time better than now to train an apprentice. Since Kaiki is a pro at being a liar, I think he can do a good job at faking your points 1 to 3.....at least to Hitagi. Now of course I am assuming Hitagi is blinded by love and don't see him faking or it is also possible that she sees this as having him all to herself.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by omimon

Well, I thought that we all knew that Kaiki was a terrible excuse for a human being..... but putting that aside. Now Kaiki acts this way (being evil) is because he sees that there is money to gain from it. Kaiki also admits that he is fond of the dark aura Hitagi had. Now I think we can all agree that Hitagi is a bright apple that has her fair share of smarts. Don't you think that it is possible for Kaiki to fake his love for Hitagi so that he can use her smarts to help him con others? I mean no time better than now to train an apprentice. Since Kaiki is a pro at being a liar, I think he can do a good job at faking your points 1 to 3.....at least to Hitagi. Now of course I am assuming Hitagi is blinded by love and don't see him faking or it is also possible that she sees this as having him all to herself.

LOL !

You need to study people more

How long you think a creature like Kaiki will stay with Hitagi ?

Human's fake things until they get bored or tired of faking.

Kaiki, given his nature as described by Nisio, will eventually get tired or bored.

He will find another woman that is darker and also smarter. There would be no reason for him to keep Hitagi after that. He will leave.

When he is done sucking the lifeforce out of Hitagi until there is nothing left but a shell of a woman what do you think will happen ?

He will leave... but that darkness in Hitagi will be manifest and since she already threatened to kill her best friend for her boyfriends sake... such a woman is most likley to hunt Kaiki down and put a box cutter into the root of his dick.

Breaking a woman like that would lead to suicide where she kills the kids, kills the husband and kills herslef in a fire she sets at the house after poinsoning dinner.

I mean seriously !!



If Hitagi becomes his apprentice and under her close scrutiny....

1. His true nature will show through.

2. She will learn all his tricks, skills, techniques after a time.

3. As such an apprentice she will kill her master... because she knows his feelings were never real.

4. I don't think Kaiki can resist sleeping with other women... as such he will die badly !

Let us say, he plays the ultimate con of a lifetime and plays the devoted lover husband and father for the better part of 60 years or more... who do you think won out ?

Hitagi.

Why ?

Because in her mind she got care, security, love and attention.

As Cypher in the Matrix says.... "Ignorance is bliss"

And you can't fault her for that.

To keep Hitagi in a state of ignorance and bliss, Kaiki is the one who had to expend extra energy faking love for that time until she or he dies... or he gets pissed, bored and has enough.

Sure he can leave... but that would be suicide given Hitagi's dark nature which Kaiki decided to cultivate (along with you saying that Hitagi will change to suite her man)

He will again get a box cutter to his anal area and be sliced open.

Oh... by the way... How do you solve the Kaiki versus Kanbaru problem ?

Kyomi survived 2 of Kanbaru attacks after he starts dating Hitagi because he is part vampire. You think Kaiki will survive Kanbaru at her top speed ?

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

LOL !

You need to study people more

How long you think a creature like Kaiki will stay with Hitagi ?

Human's fake things until they get bored or tired of faking.

Kaiki, given his nature as described by Nisio, will eventually get tired or bored.

He will find another woman that is darker and also smarter. There would be no reason for him to keep Hitagi after that. He will leave.

When he is done sucking the lifeforce out of Hitagi until there is nothing left but a shell of a woman what do you think will happen ?

He will leave... but that darkness in Hitagi will be manifest and since she already threatened to kill her best friend for her boyfriends sake... such a woman is most likley to hunt Kaiki down and put a box cutter into the root of his dick.

Breaking a woman like that would lead to suicide where she kills the kids, kills the husband and kills herslef in a fire she sets at the house after poinsoning dinner.

I mean seriously !!



If Hitagi becomes his apprentice and under her close scrutiny....

1. His true nature will show through.

2. She will learn all his tricks, skills, techniques after a time.

3. As such an apprentice she will kill her master... because she knows his feelings were never real.

4. I don't think Kaiki can resist sleeping with other women... as such he will die badly !

Let us say, he plays the ultimate con of a lifetime and plays the devoted lover husband and father for the better part of 60 years or more... who do you think won out ?

Hitagi.

Why ?

Because in her mind she got care, security, love and attention.

As Cypher in the Matrix says.... "Ignorance is bliss"

And you can't fault her for that.

To keep Hitagi in a state of ignorance and bliss, Kaiki is the one who had to expend extra energy faking love for that time until she or he dies... or he gets pissed, bored and has enough.

Sure he can leave... but that would be suicide given Hitagi's dark nature which Kaiki decided to cultivate (along with you saying that Hitagi will change to suite her man)

He will again get a box cutter to his anal area and be sliced open.

Oh... by the way... How do you solve the Kaiki versus Kanbaru problem ?

Kyomi survived 2 of Kanbaru attacks after he starts dating Hitagi because he is part vampire. You think Kaiki will survive Kanbaru at her top speed ?

I think you are overly underestimating Kaiki's power. He's no Oshino but he is the next best thing. If Hitagi were to try anything, he will CRIPPLE her. The things he can do to her is a lot worst than being merely weightless. I mean think about it, he was able to single-handedly take down Karen without even a bat of an eye.

Also, I doubt that he will teach her all his tricks if she became an apprentice. He is a master of delusion so Hitagi will think she is being taught a lot while he is only getting her to bait idiots into his traps.

On a final note, yes, Kaiki can put Kanbaru in her place even if she went into devil mode.

I guess you can argue that Hitagi will jump through hoops to train under other masters so that she can get her revenge on Kaiki, but then again she didn't do that during the last two years so I doubt she would have done so in this case. And even if she did try to find them out, people like Oshino and Kagenui aren't the type of people you can locate easily.

Actually, I don't think he even needs to wait until she tries to attack him, once he gets tired of her, he'll put a spell on her or something where if she tries anything she'll self-destruct.