AnimeSuki Forums

Kazu-kun · 2012-04-28, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZODDGUTS

She does not really seem to love anything, and she has no attachments or strong emotions for any particular task, hobby, or outlook. Yet somehow, the audience is expected to buy into the idea that she comes up with elaborate disguises and plans to go after certain things out of her own desire. There is a disconnect because that desire isn't really there.

Without the rationale and drive, her character comes off as a sock puppet

We'll get to know Fujiko's "rationale and drive" when her past is revealed. It's pretty obvious that everything that makes Fujiko who she is (at least in this series), is rooted on her past, and most specifically her childhood.

She isn't a bad lead at all IMO, and it's still early to say that she doesn't have much passion or strong emotions. It may seem that way now, but we can't be sure of anything until we see what really makes her tick.

ZODDGUTS · 2012-04-28, 01:16

No she's a bad lead compared to Lupin. Just one scene alone and he steals the episode. Just makes me wish Lupin was the character. Really what a waste of a great character. Fujiko just doesn't come close.

Kazu-kun · 2012-04-28, 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZODDGUTS

No she's a bad lead compared to Lupin. Just one scene alone and he steals the episode.

To each their own. I didn't feel that at all myself.

ZODDGUTS · 2012-04-28, 01:22

Also gotta say this was the weakest episode so far. What a dumbass plotwist and way to resolve the episode. Who was opposing their love that they needed such stupid scheme to do that? Even a hand waved reason like "My parents, who are in high society, wouldn't allow it" would do.

Ermes Marana · 2012-04-28, 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Honorable? Zenigata always had it out for Lupin. If he didn't have some history with Lupin, why keep Zenigata around wherever Lupin goes? A normal law enforcer wouldn't follow a single criminal to the ends of the earth.

From everything I've read, this episode was extremely far away from the original material.

First of all, if you watch the other Lupin shows/movies, some episodes are quite light-hearted, but there are some darker ones in there too. It covers a wide range. Making it darker is not a new idea.

The difference with this episode is that it totally changes the characters into something not only unrecognizable, but actually contradictory.

Zenigata would never do what he did in this episode. He is not sleazy, corrupt, and kill-happy. Never in any of the material. And IF he was. Then Lupin would never interact with him like he does. It's all connected. You can't make Zenigata a scumbag and still have Lupin call him "pops". Lupin simply would not act that way towards bizarro Zenigata.

Fujiko would never do what she did either, in any of the original or later material. And she came across as just passive and boring this episode. Not to mention the plot itself was boring.

Basically, this came off as the writer using her own pet themes and pet character types that she likes, and forcing the Lupin characters into those roles. Instead of telling a new story about the Lupin characters.

Kazu-kun · 2012-04-28, 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ermes Marana

Basically, this came off as the writer using her own pet themes and pet character types that she likes, and forcing the Lupin characters into those roles. Instead of telling a new story about the Lupin characters.

With this I can agree. I don't think Fujiko is a bad lead character, but I can see there were quite a few script issues in this episode. It certainly felt jaring in comparison with the previous ones.

-Sho- · 2012-04-28, 04:50

The visuals might look beautiful but the story feels empty & not interesting. What a waste if they keep like that.

sa547 · 2012-04-28, 05:40

Rereading the list here:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...31#post4098631

I cannot blame her if she still has a pile of works and corresponding deadlines to deal with... But I'll try to watch this episode anyway.

Arabesque · 2012-04-28, 08:04

@sa547

Lol, thats right, Okada had been having problems with trying to keep up with the workload she's been getting, and they even said it was an issue over with EVOL ... I wonder if this is a case of biting more than you can chew with the amount of work she's taking on, or if she is just trying to prove herself as a creator and is starting to stretch herself too thin...

In any case, my issue isn't really with the dialogue or script (which remains great, so I don't think her writing is suffering) so much as with the changes with the cast's core characters and the tone of the show being more serious than anything. Even then, I wouldn't go so far as say that there is anything bad about the show on any level.

As for Fujiko, I respectfully disagree with duckroll. I don't think that Fujiko is a bad lead so much that as at this point in the story, we don't really know what motivates her to do what she is doing, and the fact that the contrast drawn between her and the other cast members is meant to show that she is different from the rest of master thieves, that she isn't in this with the same passion and rive as the rest of them. If the ending is any hint, it's pretty clear that there is a story to this Fujiko that makes her appear this emotionally distant and detached from the world in general, and is meant to be shown that she is a scared person who is unable to show much commitment to anything in the world and is generally used to being indifferent to what happens to her body and the world around her.

So really, there is a story there, but we are getting to see Fujiko as she is right now, with the later episodes showing us how she became like that.

My problem with this Fujiko is more about her not being so much fun as I remember her, but I'm still pretty interested in the story they have for her here.

Guardian Enzo · 2012-04-28, 10:27

I think everybody is underestimating the influence Satou Dai is having here, for better or worse. He was brought in specifically because of Okada's insane workload.

Kiavik · 2012-04-28, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ermes Marana

Zenigata would never do what he did in this episode. He is not sleazy, corrupt, and kill-happy. Never in any of the material. And IF he was. Then Lupin would never interact with him like he does. It's all connected. You can't make Zenigata a scumbag and still have Lupin call him "pops". Lupin simply would not act that way towards bizarro Zenigata.

Actually, in the original 60s manga both Lupin and Zenigata (and everyone else) were almost exactly as you see them in this show. All the following incarnations of the characters were toned down for the young audiences. So this series is to be praised for sticking to the tone of the original work, if anything.

totoum · 2012-04-28, 14:24

While this might be a darker and edgier version of the franchise I don't think it's that dark and edgy overall,we're far from something like Mardock Scramble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I think everybody is underestimating the influence Satou Dai is having here, for better or worse. He was brought in specifically because of Okada's insane workload.

All we know is that he scripted episode 3 so far,no idea if he's had any input outside of that.

Ermes Marana · 2012-04-28, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiavik

Actually, in the original 60s manga both Lupin and Zenigata (and everyone else) were almost exactly as you see them in this show. All the following incarnations of the characters were toned down for the young audiences. So this series is to be praised for sticking to the tone of the original work, if anything.

Seems like the opposite to me. So far Lupin, Jigen, and Goemon have not even been as "dark" as in some of the other anime, let alone the manga. Even in the "lightest" anime:

Spoiler:

Compared to that, what would make you think they were darker in this? I'm actually happy with how they've been portrayed here, because the manga version is too dark for me and I'm glad they didn't follow it.

That leaves Zenigata and Fujiko. I'm not going to repeat everything I and others have said about their portrayal here. I'll just say, no, Zenigata's goal in the manga was not to murder Lupin. No, Zenigata never had sex with Fujiko in any manga or anime before, let alone in a context where he abused his authority as a police officer. The rest of it, you can read the previous posts.

ZODDGUTS · 2012-04-28, 18:01

I agree that it wouldn't make sense for Lupin to be act playful with this version of Zenigata, who's out to kill him and is corrupt.

Double_Edge · 2012-04-30, 19:11

This my kind of show. I'm only 2 episodes in though but I like where it is going. It's as if the main goal is to get Fujiko naked and they build the story around that.

"Hmm, what situation can we put her in this week to have her remove her clothes?"

I don't say this sarcastically. The art style rules!!!

sa547 · 2012-05-01, 13:57

Watched Episode 4, and at first glance it was quite entertaining just like before, along with the plot twists, unless one has his teeth cut since the beginning of the franchise and quickly discern odd anomalies that are "out of bounds" as far as Lupin "canon" is concerned.

But still, very enjoyable.

totoum · 2012-05-02, 12:40

Episode 5 staff:

Screenplay: Oonishi Shinsuke
Direction/Storyboard: Tagaki Shin

Kaioshin Sama · 2012-05-02, 15:47

I like how Oscar is Yuki Kaji playing totally against type. Honestly I had a hard time even believing it was still him playing Oscar until about halfway through the ep. Never knew he could sound...not whiny. Hell not even just not whiny, but.....confident.

Theorder14 · 2012-05-03, 08:25

How many episodes r there gonna be in total >.>?
Hope there's gonna be an actual plot instead of focusing that much in character development.
These episodes we got so far feels like fillers 4 me.

pinoscotto · 2012-05-03, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theorder14

How many episodes r there gonna be in total >.>?
Hope there's gonna be an actual plot instead of focusing that much in character development.
These episodes we got so far feels like fillers 4 me.

it's lupin, it's episodic

2012-04-28, 05:40	Link #188
sa547 Senior Member Author Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Philippines Age: 47	Rereading the list here: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...31#post4098631 I cannot blame her if she still has a pile of works and corresponding deadlines to deal with... But I'll try to watch this episode anyway. __________________

2012-04-28, 08:04	Link #189
Arabesque Licensed Hunter-a-holic Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: United Kingdom Age: 35	@sa547 Lol, thats right, Okada had been having problems with trying to keep up with the workload she's been getting, and they even said it was an issue over with EVOL ... I wonder if this is a case of biting more than you can chew with the amount of work she's taking on, or if she is just trying to prove herself as a creator and is starting to stretch herself too thin... In any case, my issue isn't really with the dialogue or script (which remains great, so I don't think her writing is suffering) so much as with the changes with the cast's core characters and the tone of the show being more serious than anything. Even then, I wouldn't go so far as say that there is anything bad about the show on any level. As for Fujiko, I respectfully disagree with duckroll. I don't think that Fujiko is a bad lead so much that as at this point in the story, we don't really know what motivates her to do what she is doing, and the fact that the contrast drawn between her and the other cast members is meant to show that she is different from the rest of master thieves, that she isn't in this with the same passion and rive as the rest of them. If the ending is any hint, it's pretty clear that there is a story to this Fujiko that makes her appear this emotionally distant and detached from the world in general, and is meant to be shown that she is a scared person who is unable to show much commitment to anything in the world and is generally used to being indifferent to what happens to her body and the world around her. So really, there is a story there, but we are getting to see Fujiko as she is right now, with the later episodes showing us how she became like that. My problem with this Fujiko is more about her not being so much fun as I remember her, but I'm still pretty interested in the story they have for her here. __________________

2012-04-30, 19:11	Link #195
Double_Edge Cool Lander Join Date: Aug 2006	This my kind of show. I'm only 2 episodes in though but I like where it is going. It's as if the main goal is to get Fujiko naked and they build the story around that. "Hmm, what situation can we put her in this week to have her remove her clothes?" I don't say this sarcastically. The art style rules!!! __________________ Signature eaten by fluffy bunnies...nom nom nom!

2012-05-01, 13:57	Link #196
sa547 Senior Member Author Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Philippines Age: 47	Watched Episode 4, and at first glance it was quite entertaining just like before, along with the plot twists, unless one has his teeth cut since the beginning of the franchise and quickly discern odd anomalies that are "out of bounds" as far as Lupin "canon" is concerned. But still, very enjoyable. __________________

2012-05-02, 12:40	Link #197
totoum Me at work Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 36	Episode 5 staff: Screenplay: Oonishi Shinsuke Direction/Storyboard: Tagaki Shin __________________ Last edited by totoum; 2012-05-02 at 12:54.

2012-04-28, 01:16	Link #182
ZODDGUTS Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005	No she's a bad lead compared to Lupin. Just one scene alone and he steals the episode. Just makes me wish Lupin was the character. Really what a waste of a great character. Fujiko just doesn't come close.

2012-04-28, 01:22	Link #184
ZODDGUTS Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005	Also gotta say this was the weakest episode so far. What a dumbass plotwist and way to resolve the episode. Who was opposing their love that they needed such stupid scheme to do that? Even a hand waved reason like "My parents, who are in high society, wouldn't allow it" would do.

2012-04-28, 04:50	Link #187
-Sho- ~Omedetô~ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !	The visuals might look beautiful but the story feels empty & not interesting. What a waste if they keep like that.

2012-04-28, 18:01	Link #194
ZODDGUTS Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005	I agree that it wouldn't make sense for Lupin to be act playful with this version of Zenigata, who's out to kill him and is corrupt.

2012-05-02, 15:47	Link #198
Kaioshin Sama Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: Neither Here nor There Age: 39	I like how Oscar is Yuki Kaji playing totally against type. Honestly I had a hard time even believing it was still him playing Oscar until about halfway through the ep. Never knew he could sound...not whiny. Hell not even just not whiny, but.....confident.

2012-05-03, 08:25	Link #199
Theorder14 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	How many episodes r there gonna be in total >.>? Hope there's gonna be an actual plot instead of focusing that much in character development. These episodes we got so far feels like fillers 4 me.