(L) Akame ga kill [Manga]

[bastek66]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

Tatsumi accept Esdese should die because Najenda brainwashed him so.

Whoa, this is projecting, hard.

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

Basically, this manga's message is not about the death of every characters, but instead conflict and tragedy were born from lacking of understanding between humans. Once people learn how to love and understand others, peace and harmony will eventually come.

Bullshit. This manga has no message, it's mix of shock value, violence, rape, gore, low comedy and waifuwars harem, like typical VN Takahiro would wrote.

[cadu_]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

Basically, this manga's message is not about the death of every characters, but instead conflict and tragedy were born from lacking of understanding between humans. Once people learn how to love and understand others, peace and harmony will eventually come.

The conflicts in this manga are not made from lack of understanding.

The empire has a system perfect and almost welcome twisted people:
-Those who like fighting and killing.
-Those who like to abuse their power and like to subjugate others.
-Those who are corrupted,greedy and accept bribes.
-Those who like torture and make others miserable.

The bigger part of the population just suffers all the time because of it.
The only good ones in the empire are the naive ones who didnt notice it`s true nature,or those who decided to change the system from the inside.

The Night Raid and Revolutionary Army have people who are sick of this corrupted and twisted empire and decided to destroy it and make a new one for the people.

In other words,there is no lack of understanding,the empire UNDERSTANDs that the Revolutionary Army wants the better for the people,they just dont about that because the current system satisfies their twisted wishes.

[Seitsuki]

Esdese is totally best girl. First to fall for him, first kokuhaku, first (and second) kiss, crossed by fate, purest love! Why is she so perfect!?

[cadu_]

Originally Posted by Seitsuki

Esdese is totally best girl. First to fall for him, first kokuhaku, first (and second) kiss, crossed by fate, purest love! Why is she so perfect!?

I think it would be better if she was not psycho who liked war,torture,fighting.
whats kokuhaku?

[B214]

Kokuhaku (告白) = Confession

[Fwarlord]

Najenda is the first person told Tatsumi Esdese's tales and because of her bias, she portrayed her as a complete monster, only told about her bad side, totally ignored her postitive aspects like her compassion, her gentleness and her deep care for her surbodinates, which she is well aware since they're once comrades. By doing so, she planted a heavy prejudice of Esdese being an abomination that should be annihilated for people's sake. That's what I called brainwashed.

Tatsumi's only at Esdese's side for the short amount of time, he didn't has the chance to fully understand Esdese's ideal, he only saw the tip of the iceberg. Someone who grew up in a peaceful village, was loved and cared by his friends and elders cannot fully understand the hardship of someone living in wild nature and having to fight everyday for her life nor have the right to judge her. Once Tatsumi witness more death (his comrades', his enemies' and death cause by his own hand) and many other aspects of the society to the point his thought can transcend things like good and evil, he will open his heart to understand her and accept her.

And about the lacking of understanding, let's see:
- The family in the first chapter, like many twisted nobles, is just too wealthy so they can't understand why lower class people have to struggle for their lives. Out of boredom, they tortured other to seek pleasure without feeling guilty because they can't understand the pain they cause to others.
- The Ogre guy, like many other corrupted officers, abused his power and made people suffer for his own gain because he didn't understand the fear of being terrorized.
Basically, the problem is the caste system of the empire prevents people from understand other's suffering. To solve the problem, they don't just need to overthrow the current government, they need to change the system completely.
While up until this point, we have little information of the RA so we don't know whether they want a regime change for the sake of the people or it's just their power hungry leaders' wish, we know one thing, they allied themselves with many feudal lords so that they can help them to take the capital. That makes me wonder how they will have a complete system change if they make compromise with the old regime's forces.
What people need here isn't a new regime to replace the old one with the caste system being kept. They need a strong, charismatic political figure to rule all and treat everyone equally. That person must be a competent military leader who is admired and worshiped by his/her men because of his/her might so that he/she can take over empire without making compromise with any other force. Once he/she rules, the caste system will be abolished, no one will have special treatment, each and everyone will be treated equally and anyone who cause mischief will be send to the torture chamber. A strong army completely loyal to their head of state will protect the empire from the invasion from other nations. Rebels and corrupted people will be send to their proper places so no one can destroy the empire from within. In other words, with Esdese become the queen, all problems will be solved.

[ellifeedn]

Did you forget where she clearly supported the torture of multiple people and even had people buried alive? That's not someone who has a "kill or be killed" mentality, that is plain old psychotic and evil.

[Tenzen12]

If they are weak, to not be able defend their live, they deserve anything that come to them. Even if wrong it's quite simply and understandable philosophy. She is not evil per se. Give her enemy and she will kill and torture it, but it's limited to enemy only. It doesn't metter if she work for evil PM or Saint Peter.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

Najenda is the first person told Tatsumi Esdese's tales and because of her bias, she portrayed her as a complete monster, only told about her bad side, totally ignored her postitive aspects like her compassion, her gentleness and her deep care for her surbodinates, which she is well aware since they're once comrades.

What compassion? Esdeath clearly stated the only reason she does it is so her subordinates will be more inclined to sacrifice their life for her. Even if it was true, it doesn't exactly absolve her of her sins.

By doing so, she planted a heavy prejudice of Esdese being an abomination that should be annihilated for people's sake. That's what I called brainwashed.

Even if Najenda didn't tell Tatsumi a thing about Esdeath, he would have still been repulsed by her after she kidnapped him, not to mention the content of their discussions.

Tatsumi's only at Esdese's side for the short amount of time, he didn't has the chance to fully understand Esdese's ideal, he only saw the tip of the iceberg. Someone who grew up in a peaceful village, was loved and cared by his friends and elders cannot fully understand the hardship of someone living in wild nature and having to fight everyday for her life nor have the right to judge her.

What is there to understand about Esdeath's ideal? Even if you accept the logic of eat or be eaten, that doesn't explain her sadism. Even her own father thought she was born like that. Saying that only people that lived in similar situations as her have the right to judge her is nonsense.

Once Tatsumi witness more death (his comrades', his enemies' and death cause by his own hand) and many other aspects of the society to the point his thought can transcend things like good and evil, he will open his heart to understand her and accept her.

There is no understanding someone like Esdeath unless you're like her and don't give a crap about anyone else.

And about the lacking of understanding, let's see:
- The family in the first chapter, like many twisted nobles, is just too wealthy so they can't understand why lower class people have to struggle for their lives. Out of boredom, they tortured other to seek pleasure without feeling guilty because they can't understand the pain they cause to others.
- The Ogre guy, like many other corrupted officers, abused his power and made people suffer for his own gain because he didn't understand the fear of being terrorized.

Are you serious? They understand those things just fine, it's simply that they don't care.

While up until this point, we have little information of the RA so we don't know whether they want a regime change for the sake of the people or it's just their power hungry leaders' wish, we know one thing, they allied themselves with many feudal lords so that they can help them to take the capital. That makes me wonder how they will have a complete system change if they make compromise with the old regime's forces.

You're assuming that every single high ranking person is a piece of trash like Aria's family. There are some decent people among them like that former primer Minister the Three Beasts killed.

What people need here isn't a new regime to replace the old one with the caste system being kept. They need a strong, charismatic political figure to rule all and treat everyone equally. That person must be a competent military leader who is admired and worshiped by his/her men because of his/her might so that he/she can take over empire without making compromise with any other force. Once he/she rules, the caste system will be abolished, no one will have special treatment, each and everyone will be treated equally and anyone who cause mischief will be send to the torture chamber. A strong army completely loyal to their head of state will protect the empire from the invasion from other nations. Rebels and corrupted people will be send to their proper places so no one can destroy the empire from within. In other words, with Esdese become the queen, all problems will be solved.

Esdeath as Queen? What a horrible thought. If that did come to pass, things would just end up exactly the same, even if she did remove the caste system.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

If they are weak, to not be able defend their live, they deserve anything that come to them. Even if wrong it's quite simply and understandable philosophy. She is not evil per se. Give her enemy and she will kill and torture it, but it's limited to enemy only. It doesn't metter if she work for evil PM or Saint Peter.

Tell that to the civilians she ordered raped and murdered.

[saw2097]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

Najenda is the first person told Tatsumi Esdese's tales and because of her bias, she portrayed her as a complete monster, only told about her bad side, totally ignored her postitive aspects like her compassion, her gentleness and her deep care for her surbodinates, which she is well aware since they're once comrades. By doing so, she planted a heavy prejudice of Esdese being an abomination that should be annihilated for people's sake. That's what I called brainwashed.

Tatsumi's only at Esdese's side for the short amount of time, he didn't has the chance to fully understand Esdese's ideal, he only saw the tip of the iceberg. Someone who grew up in a peaceful village, was loved and cared by his friends and elders cannot fully understand the hardship of someone living in wild nature and having to fight everyday for her life nor have the right to judge her. Once Tatsumi witness more death (his comrades', his enemies' and death cause by his own hand) and many other aspects of the society to the point his thought can transcend things like good and evil, he will open his heart to understand her and accept her.

And about the lacking of understanding, let's see:
- The family in the first chapter, like many twisted nobles, is just too wealthy so they can't understand why lower class people have to struggle for their lives. Out of boredom, they tortured other to seek pleasure without feeling guilty because they can't understand the pain they cause to others.
- The Ogre guy, like many other corrupted officers, abused his power and made people suffer for his own gain because he didn't understand the fear of being terrorized.
Basically, the problem is the caste system of the empire prevents people from understand other's suffering. To solve the problem, they don't just need to overthrow the current government, they need to change the system completely.
While up until this point, we have little information of the RA so we don't know whether they want a regime change for the sake of the people or it's just their power hungry leaders' wish, we know one thing, they allied themselves with many feudal lords so that they can help them to take the capital. That makes me wonder how they will have a complete system change if they make compromise with the old regime's forces.
What people need here isn't a new regime to replace the old one with the caste system being kept. They need a strong, charismatic political figure to rule all and treat everyone equally. That person must be a competent military leader who is admired and worshiped by his/her men because of his/her might so that he/she can take over empire without making compromise with any other force. Once he/she rules, the caste system will be abolished, no one will have special treatment, each and everyone will be treated equally and anyone who cause mischief will be send to the torture chamber. A strong army completely loyal to their head of state will protect the empire from the invasion from other nations. Rebels and corrupted people will be send to their proper places so no one can destroy the empire from within. In other words, with Esdese become the queen, all problems will be solved.

She dropped a block of ice in a pot containing people being boiled to death just so they would suffer for even longer; she told her army to indulge themselves on a town which led them to drag people out of their homes, rape, torture, and kill them; and she sent out three of her men to butcher good people and frame Night Raid for it.

She doesn't care about the empire, she has made that clear, the empire just gives her an excuse to kill people so she serves it.

That's not someone who is misunderstood or deserves sympathy, she is also completely aware of just how bad the empire is as she once spoke to the Prime Minister about his plan to corrupt the Emperor when he gets older and she showed no problem at all with it.

Tatsumi saw plenty of her nature, and heard her backstory from her own lips and was horrified by it, Tatsumi who actually thought he could convince her to have a change of heart, then only after hearing the story from her did he decide that she was beyond convincing.

[bastek66]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

Najenda is the first person told Tatsumi Esdese's tales and because of her bias, she portrayed her as a complete monster, only told about her bad side, totally ignored her postitive aspects like her compassion, her gentleness and her deep care for her surbodinates, which she is well aware since they're once comrades. By doing so, she planted a heavy prejudice of Esdese being an abomination that should be annihilated for people's sake. That's what I called brainwashed.

Tatsumi's only at Esdese's side for the short amount of time, he didn't has the chance to fully understand Esdese's ideal, he only saw the tip of the iceberg. Someone who grew up in a peaceful village, was loved and cared by his friends and elders cannot fully understand the hardship of someone living in wild nature and having to fight everyday for her life nor have the right to judge her. Once Tatsumi witness more death (his comrades', his enemies' and death cause by his own hand) and many other aspects of the society to the point his thought can transcend things like good and evil, he will open his heart to understand her and accept her.

And about the lacking of understanding, let's see:
- The family in the first chapter, like many twisted nobles, is just too wealthy so they can't understand why lower class people have to struggle for their lives. Out of boredom, they tortured other to seek pleasure without feeling guilty because they can't understand the pain they cause to others.
- The Ogre guy, like many other corrupted officers, abused his power and made people suffer for his own gain because he didn't understand the fear of being terrorized.
Basically, the problem is the caste system of the empire prevents people from understand other's suffering. To solve the problem, they don't just need to overthrow the current government, they need to change the system completely.
While up until this point, we have little information of the RA so we don't know whether they want a regime change for the sake of the people or it's just their power hungry leaders' wish, we know one thing, they allied themselves with many feudal lords so that they can help them to take the capital. That makes me wonder how they will have a complete system change if they make compromise with the old regime's forces.
What people need here isn't a new regime to replace the old one with the caste system being kept. They need a strong, charismatic political figure to rule all and treat everyone equally. That person must be a competent military leader who is admired and worshiped by his/her men because of his/her might so that he/she can take over empire without making compromise with any other force. Once he/she rules, the caste system will be abolished, no one will have special treatment, each and everyone will be treated equally and anyone who cause mischief will be send to the torture chamber. A strong army completely loyal to their head of state will protect the empire from the invasion from other nations. Rebels and corrupted people will be send to their proper places so no one can destroy the empire from within. In other words, with Esdese become the queen, all problems will be solved.

I don't know if I should laugh on this pathetic maximum level projection or be afraid that people like this exist. It's near nazi apologist level.

[Hiyono]

Originally Posted by bastek66

I don't know if I should laugh on this pathetic maximum level projection or be afraid that people like this exist. It's near nazi apologist level.

Didn't you know? Moral relativism is all the rage these days on these forums. Anything is okay as long as it makes sense within the context of the story universe!

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Nandesuto

Didn't you know? Moral relativism is all the rage these days on these forums. Anything is okay as long as it makes sense within the context of the story universe!

Even that excuse doesn't make any sense, since anyone with decent morals in story thinks Esdeath is a monster.

That's why we got that reaction shot of Najenda after Esdeath ordered those civilians raped and murdered. What she did isn't morally OK by in-universe standards.

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by Endscape

What compassion? Esdeath clearly stated the only reason she does it is so her subordinates will be more inclined to sacrifice their life for her. Even if it was true, it doesn't exactly absolve her of her sins.

Esdese herself said that she is someone "full of compassion but void of mercy" and we see she said the truth. She genuinely care for her subordinate and any one she acknowledge (including her enemies) since it's her pride as a warrior. What I want to say is Najenda didn't give Tatsumi a complete picture about her old colleague, she just said parts of the truth subjectively to manipulate his opinion.

Even if Najenda didn't tell Tatsumi a thing about Esdeath, he would have still been repulsed by her after she kidnapped him, not to mention the content of their discussions.

If it's not for Najenda's bad-talking, Tatsumi's first impression of Esdese would has been she being a somehow weird but lovely girl, who care deeply for her friends. It will change a lot of things. He will try to put himself in her shoes more instead of giving up so soon.

What is there to understand about Esdeath's ideal? Even if you accept the logic of eat or be eaten, that doesn't explain her sadism. Even her own father thought she was born like that. Saying that only people that lived in similar situations as her have the right to judge her is nonsense.

Her natural born sadism in fact justifies her actions. Because she was born with that special mentality, it's only natural for her to do what she did, people around her encourage her, so why not? When a lion or a shark eat humans, you can't charge them for committing murder because that's how they are naturally, right? Even in a modern society, people with mental problems aren't judged equally like normal people, they're seen as victims more than criminals.
In a modern point of view, wanting her death is no different than wanting to kill a psychiatric patient because of her illness.
In this series, what she did is lawfully right, because she acted on the government's order, if anyone want to judge her, they have to become the government first.

Are you serious? They understand those things just fine, it's simply that they don't care.

They can't understand the pain they inflict to others because no one did those to them. They're wealthy and have many privileges over normal people so they don't really see low-class people as their equals. That's why i said those people should live under a military dictatorship which strips away all privileges so that they will have more things to worry about than mistreating others out of boredom.

You're assuming that every single high ranking person is a piece of trash like Aria's family. There are some decent people among them like that former primer Minister the Three Beasts killed.

Well, there are be many kind of different people, but that caste system itself tend to create corrupted nobles and officers. One noble can be a good guy but how about his successor, his child, can they continue being righteous while living under a system that allow them to commit atrocities against peasants without being punished. If a system itself is the problem, abolishing it is the only way.

Esdeath as Queen? What a horrible thought. If that did come to pass, things would just end up exactly the same, even if she did remove the caste system.

Things will change entirely. The current empire allows thuggish and corrupted people to hold so much wealth and power while the only thing they contribute to society is making civilians suffer. That's what is really weakening and destroying the empire from inside. Once a government with the "survival for the fittest" philosophy is established, only the strong and competent ones can hold power. Social wealth will be distribute base on one's contribution instead of some privileges. The empire will be protected from both inside and outside.

Tell that to the civilians she ordered raped and murdered.

We are reading a series with a somewhat medieval setting. In that time, rebels' family and relatives are also consider rebels, according to that rule, there is no civilian at their base. So she just did what was ordered, subjugating rebels.

[Hiyono]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Even that excuse doesn't make any sense, since anyone with decent morals in story thinks Esdeath is a monster.

That's why we got that reaction shot of Najenda after Esdeath ordered those civilians raped and murdered. What she did isn't morally OK by in-universe standards.

From what I have been taught by certain other threads in this forum - which shall remain nameless - you can't apply other people's standards to her actions; within the framework of the Imperial Government in which she acts, her actions are allowed, therefore what she does is A-OK. End of story, period, if you disagree, you're a bigot.

[hamazura]

btw when the release of next chapter?

[NeutralZero]

22nd of the month
and a week or 2 for .cn sites and the likes...
somehow hoping for a Esdeath VS budou match in the near future

[ShiryuMask]

Wow, some people love Esdeath way too much.

Just because what she does is something allowed by the Empire( and we know that it's rotten to the core),doesn't mean that what she does is right .

Then again, everyone has their own definition of wrong and right.

somehow hoping for a Esdeath VS budou match in the near future

I'm pretty sure that we will see this battle in the future.

[saw2097]

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

22nd of the month
and a week or 2 for .cn sites and the likes...
somehow hoping for a Esdeath VS budou match in the near future

We are in the Empire in Chaos Arc so it makes since that there is some infighting in the empire.

[Mach56gs]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

We are reading a series with a somewhat medieval setting. In that time, rebels' family and relatives are also consider rebels, according to that rule, there is no civilian at their base. So she just did what was ordered, subjugating rebels.

Yes, because raping and killing people brutally and inhumanly has always worked in bringing order to people in the past.

....

Thats sarcasm. Thats the stupidest way of trying to pacify a region, because its obviously been shown time and time again in "this medival setting" that the rebels have always existed, no matter how harsh or one-sided the odds have seemed.

So Raping and Killing and Plunder and Inhumanity is clearly not ever going to succeed at defeating the rebels.

Its stupid.