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Ickarium · 2014-02-10, 07:50

To be honest, there's a reason for that. The LN go into some detail and hint at the rest. He doesn't want to turn out like his grandfather with whoever he ends up with having lots of issues because of girls.

That makes sense. Issue is, the girls have obviously accepted each other, so.

Avaricia · 2014-02-10, 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hokoga

True he isn't a blockhead, but he did try to friendzone every last one of them.
But the girls in this series won't let him get away with it, they established an intimate relationship with him whether he wanted to or not.(especially Erica)

It's obvious that he's going to friendzone them, knowing the fact that they came from an organization which means they were sent to manipulate him

Hokoga · 2014-02-10, 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ickarium

To be honest, there's a reason for that. The LN go into some detail and hint at the rest. He doesn't want to turn out like his grandfather with whoever he ends up with having lots of issues because of girls.

That makes sense. Issue is, the girls have obviously accepted each other, so.

Doesn't want to be like his grandfather, so the alternative was to be worser than his grandfather.

bakapervert · 2014-02-10, 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ickarium

To be honest, there's a reason for that. The LN go into some detail and hint at the rest. He doesn't want to turn out like his grandfather with whoever he ends up with having lots of issues because of girls.

That makes sense. Issue is, the girls have obviously accepted each other, so.

Well, the relationship between the girls is also interesting. Erica and Yuri has good relationship. Same with Ena and yuri. Between Erica and Liliana there is rivalry, but that rivalry also include great understanding between those two. In the last two volume the relationship between Ena and Erica has also grown and they become closer. Liliana and Yuri's relation should also be close, especially with how Godou toy both of them last volume, though I can't still grasp the chemistry between both of them clearly. Hope next volume there will be development with Liliana and Ena, that combination hasn't been explored too much.

Ickarium · 2014-02-10, 08:09

Wouldn't call him worse, though that is debatable. But sounds human to me.

bakapervert · 2014-02-10, 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avaricia

It's obvious that he's going to friendzone them, knowing the fact that they came from an organization which means they were sent to manipulate him

Nah, the girls doesn't really get close to Godou with the purpose to manipulate him, though its true that the organization behind those girls hope for that end. And Godou doesn't really suspect the girl about things like that. The truth though that those girls is already completely under his thumb, and will abandon the organization without second thought if they try something bad against Godou.

The Green One · 2014-02-10, 08:13

They've all been through several life and death battles together now, strong trust has been built between each other. They've come to....accept....that they need to share Godou between them, but they certainly won't willingly let anyone else join the harem. Which unfortunately for them is a constant risk given at the rate Godou tends to attract women.

Hokoga · 2014-02-10, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakapervert

Nah, the girls doesn't really get close to Godou with the purpose to manipulate him, though its true that the organization behind those girls hope for that end. And Godou doesn't really suspect the girl about things like that. The truth though that those girls is already completely under his thumb, and will abandon the organization without second thought if they try something bad against Godou.

they are already trying to make an organization separate from the others with Godou as the leader.

Feng Lengshun · 2014-02-10, 08:32

My problem with the relationship with the girls is that it's too physical in nature without actually crossing that line (I don't care about the format or editor, it gets ridiculous that he was able to kiss the girls for like an hour many times but still won't do it with them without a logical enough reason) and not enough of it being on the emotions, in addition to not enough problems on the relationship.

Hm, I suppose it's not exactly on 'not enough on the emotion' but more towards how the girls aren't exactly a person of their own in that all of the things they do pretty much revolves around him that they don't feel like a person of their own. I mean, even happily married couples don't always think about their spouse or lives revolving around them, they have their own lives, characters, history, and problems to tackle on, which was not explored enough in Campione! to stand as their own person with their own sets of lives independently and not as a satellite character like Rias.

On the not enough problem thing, it's all back to the Romance principle of "What is there to stop them?" See, I don't see enough problems with the girls themselves, no shouting, no fighting, no quarrels (legitimate and serious ones that happens in relationship). It just feels too perfect, too smooth, that I find it boring. That's one reason why I've been favoring more VNs than LNs as of late actually (in addition to actually crossing that one line that really frustrated me with some of these harem protagonists), each heroines has problems of their owns, one that stems either due to their own characters, the protagonist's characters, their history/background, or the situation, and they're so major that they really do test the characters' relationship. And I don't see much of that here, honestly, when it's already far enough. Honestly, it makes the relationship feels shallow and too perfect, like something out of a children's book where they always live happily ever after, plus the fanservice of course.

All in all, I'm actually pretty dissatisfied with it. While asking for a Key level relationship would be too much, I'd like that if it's at least... let's see... hm, Kamidori level I guess (and that's already the bottom of bottom which I only tolerated because of the other aspect of the game). Well, that or Abnormal Joshi Kei like (for the lulz).

bakapervert · 2014-02-10, 08:55

^ Well, I get what are you saying about there is no conflict in the relationship in this series making it feel shallow compared to the VN where each heroine has their own route and problem and conflict to overcome and we can get to know the character pretty deep. But in those VN, all those romance only explore the relationship between two people. I imagine its very hard (if not impossible) to create such deep drama and romance in harem relationship. Try to create that kind of depth in harem like Campione, I can only imagine so much angst and tons of bad ending (in yandere variety). I don't think until now there are harem route anywhere with depth like we can usually found in romance VN. Hopefully in the future some genius writer can appear to create that kind of story. But for now, unless you do it like this in CAmpione, I don't think the writer can make it any better than this.

Ultragunner · 2014-02-10, 08:56

I know right, but fortunately in Campione, it isn't as bad as in DxD, the level of cock-tease & and cock-blocking is WAY OVER 9000 that it's beyond ridiculous (and I'm sorry for the bad language here, just can't help it

)

But as I recall, Yuri did answer to Kaoru that one day she will give Godou her virginity (yeah, "one day" that is

), wow that's a strong statement for someone like her. Now it really just depends on Godou.

It seriously frustrates me to say this, but how come only Kirito gets to be a "man" while others don't

.

Hokoga · 2014-02-10, 08:56

@Feng Lengshun the most Key level relationship I've seen so far in LN is between two magicians who happen to be siblings.
I've noticed this but..... you really like to go into detail huh.

Kadi · 2014-02-10, 09:00

Yep, comparing a VN and a balanced harem LN is kinda unfair...

IF Campione added too much drama, it would either slow down the overall story, leading to pacing issues, or it would easily cut into all the cute feel-good scenes, which would deny it one of its charm points... Yes, some more drama would be appreciated. Yes, some premier chances for good drama were wasted. I still think Campione beats most of its competition in its genre by leaps and bounds.

Edit: Gehhh, you post too fast for a geezer like me...

Edit2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

It seriously frustrates me to say this, but how come only Kirito gets to be a "man" while others don't

.

He doesn't anymore. That was retconned, wasn't it?

Von Himmel · 2014-02-10, 09:13

Wait, is this true that vol 16 going to be released at 25th?

Kadi · 2014-02-10, 09:19

Yes.

(damn minimum length for posts...)

Feng Lengshun · 2014-02-10, 09:20

Yeah, I know it's kind of unfair, but do realize that despite everything, Key do have some anime and they pretty decent, even if the end it becomes two-people relationships. And besides, I did placed the minimum to be Kamidori level and Kamidori's relationshiping was a bit on the shit side. With that said, why not just make it like something in the first half of Clannad, with how the girls having their own problems and it actually being important to the characters' growth, before proceeding to become romantic with everyone later on because "Fuck choosing one, I'm choosing everyone no matter what they say."? I feel it would be more, em, manly that way too.

Strictly speaking, it's possible to keep the dynamics while keeping the relationship between the girls to be non-romantic. Most of the good things that comes from harem isn't from the harem itself anyway, but the things that is 'associated' with it. Just like in real life, if the Author decided to make it a harem (and by this, I mean actual harem where there's an actual relationship instead of, say, something like Infinite Stratos), then he should be prepared to go through hardship in writing the relationship to be believable, unless it's supposed to be a crack or mocking harem itself in which case go ahead. If not, then he should have made it non-romantic or neutral. It's all fine for the sales anyway as long as the girls are cute and the lack of romantic focus could be used for other things.

PS, yes, I love to go in details. You can't exactly explain your case and argument without presenting reason can you?

Edit: For Kirito, it seems to still be canon, as far as the anime and the still-circulated chapter goes... well, at least it's pretty much fanon and the main reason why SAO got popular in the first place.

Hokoga · 2014-02-10, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Himmel

Wait, is this true that vol 16 going to be released at 25th?

That's what it says on Baka-Tsuki,
and on Baka-Tsuki they don't let you update the page with false information.

so as to say that people usually disagree with you and that causes you to go into detail?

Avaricia · 2014-02-10, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakapervert

Nah, the girls doesn't really get close to Godou with the purpose to manipulate him, though its true that the organization behind those girls hope for that end. And Godou doesn't really suspect the girl about things like that. The truth though that those girls is already completely under his thumb, and will abandon the organization without second thought if they try something bad against Godou.

That's what it was from the start... just like what Yuri and Ena said that they were sent to become his concubine

Von Himmel · 2014-02-10, 09:34

That's way faster than I imagined

Seems like it's just last 3 months ago when the last book came out >.>

Though we'll probably need to wait till chinese translation finish before reading the english translation so it'll be like next month for me to read it ;_;
then again it's already pretty fast ww

bakapervert · 2014-02-10, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avaricia

That's what it was from the start... just like what Yuri and Ena said that they were sent to become his concubine

Yeah, forget that Ena actually sent to become his woman. Though its only in the beginning, by the end of volume 5 I think Ena has been completely conquered by Godou. As for Yuri, she only get some push from HCC only after Yuri become close enough to Godou. At the beginning HCC only tell her to investigate Godou.

2014-02-10, 07:50	Link #9401
Ickarium Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013	To be honest, there's a reason for that. The LN go into some detail and hint at the rest. He doesn't want to turn out like his grandfather with whoever he ends up with having lots of issues because of girls. That makes sense. Issue is, the girls have obviously accepted each other, so. __________________

2014-02-10, 08:09	Link #9405
Ickarium Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013	Wouldn't call him worse, though that is debatable. But sounds human to me. __________________

2014-02-10, 08:32	Link #9409
Feng Lengshun Old Wine Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: In my Body	My problem with the relationship with the girls is that it's too physical in nature without actually crossing that line (I don't care about the format or editor, it gets ridiculous that he was able to kiss the girls for like an hour many times but still won't do it with them without a logical enough reason) and not enough of it being on the emotions, in addition to not enough problems on the relationship. Hm, I suppose it's not exactly on 'not enough on the emotion' but more towards how the girls aren't exactly a person of their own in that all of the things they do pretty much revolves around him that they don't feel like a person of their own. I mean, even happily married couples don't always think about their spouse or lives revolving around them, they have their own lives, characters, history, and problems to tackle on, which was not explored enough in Campione! to stand as their own person with their own sets of lives independently and not as a satellite character like Rias. On the not enough problem thing, it's all back to the Romance principle of "What is there to stop them?" See, I don't see enough problems with the girls themselves, no shouting, no fighting, no quarrels (legitimate and serious ones that happens in relationship). It just feels too perfect, too smooth, that I find it boring. That's one reason why I've been favoring more VNs than LNs as of late actually (in addition to actually crossing that one line that really frustrated me with some of these harem protagonists), each heroines has problems of their owns, one that stems either due to their own characters, the protagonist's characters, their history/background, or the situation, and they're so major that they really do test the characters' relationship. And I don't see much of that here, honestly, when it's already far enough. Honestly, it makes the relationship feels shallow and too perfect, like something out of a children's book where they always live happily ever after, plus the fanservice of course. All in all, I'm actually pretty dissatisfied with it. While asking for a Key level relationship would be too much, I'd like that if it's at least... let's see... hm, Kamidori level I guess (and that's already the bottom of bottom which I only tolerated because of the other aspect of the game). Well, that or Abnormal Joshi Kei like (for the lulz). __________________ *A Really* Extensive Guide on Making a Story, OCs, and Characterizations.**

2014-02-10, 08:56	Link #9411
Ultragunner Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	I know right, but fortunately in Campione, it isn't as bad as in DxD, the level of cock-tease & and cock-blocking is WAY OVER 9000 that it's beyond ridiculous (and I'm sorry for the bad language here, just can't help it ) But as I recall, Yuri did answer to Kaoru that one day she will give Godou her virginity (yeah, "one day" that is ), wow that's a strong statement for someone like her. Now it really just depends on Godou. It seriously frustrates me to say this, but how come only Kirito gets to be a "man" while others don't . __________________

2014-02-10, 09:13	Link #9414
Von Himmel エーレンフェストの聖女 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dollars	Wait, is this true that vol 16 going to be released at 25th? __________________ 「何かが起こっても、わたくしが守ります」

2014-02-10, 08:13	Link #9407
The Green One Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010	They've all been through several life and death battles together now, strong trust has been built between each other. They've come to....accept....that they need to share Godou between them, but they certainly won't willingly let anyone else join the harem. Which unfortunately for them is a constant risk given at the rate Godou tends to attract women.

2014-02-10, 08:55	Link #9410
bakapervert A pervert Join Date: Oct 2012	^ Well, I get what are you saying about there is no conflict in the relationship in this series making it feel shallow compared to the VN where each heroine has their own route and problem and conflict to overcome and we can get to know the character pretty deep. But in those VN, all those romance only explore the relationship between two people. I imagine its very hard (if not impossible) to create such deep drama and romance in harem relationship. Try to create that kind of depth in harem like Campione, I can only imagine so much angst and tons of bad ending (in yandere variety). I don't think until now there are harem route anywhere with depth like we can usually found in romance VN. Hopefully in the future some genius writer can appear to create that kind of story. But for now, unless you do it like this in CAmpione, I don't think the writer can make it any better than this.

2014-02-10, 08:56	Link #9412
Hokoga Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	@Feng Lengshun the most Key level relationship I've seen so far in LN is between two magicians who happen to be siblings. I've noticed this but..... you really like to go into detail huh.

2014-02-10, 09:19	Link #9415
Kadi 知識の探求者 Join Date: Feb 2012	Yes. (damn minimum length for posts...)

2014-02-10, 09:20	Link #9416
Feng Lengshun Old Wine Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: In my Body	Yeah, I know it's kind of unfair, but do realize that despite everything, Key do have some anime and they pretty decent, even if the end it becomes two-people relationships. And besides, I did placed the minimum to be Kamidori level and Kamidori's relationshiping was a bit on the shit side. With that said, why not just make it like something in the first half of Clannad, with how the girls having their own problems and it actually being important to the characters' growth, before proceeding to become romantic with everyone later on because "Fuck choosing one, I'm choosing everyone no matter what they say."? I feel it would be more, em, manly that way too. Strictly speaking, it's possible to keep the dynamics while keeping the relationship between the girls to be non-romantic. Most of the good things that comes from harem isn't from the harem itself anyway, but the things that is 'associated' with it. Just like in real life, if the Author decided to make it a harem (and by this, I mean actual harem where there's an actual relationship instead of, say, something like Infinite Stratos), then he should be prepared to go through hardship in writing the relationship to be believable, unless it's supposed to be a crack or mocking harem itself in which case go ahead. If not, then he should have made it non-romantic or neutral. It's all fine for the sales anyway as long as the girls are cute and the lack of romantic focus could be used for other things. PS, yes, I love to go in details. You can't exactly explain your case and argument without presenting reason can you? Edit: For Kirito, it seems to still be canon, as far as the anime and the still-circulated chapter goes... well, at least it's pretty much fanon and the main reason why SAO got popular in the first place. __________________ *A Really* Extensive Guide on Making a Story, OCs, and Characterizations.**

2014-02-10, 09:34	Link #9419
Von Himmel エーレンフェストの聖女 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dollars	That's way faster than I imagined Seems like it's just last 3 months ago when the last book came out >.> Though we'll probably need to wait till chinese translation finish before reading the english translation so it'll be like next month for me to read it ;_; then again it's already pretty fast ww __________________ 「何かが起こっても、わたくしが守ります」