[Manga] Naruto Chapter 594 Discussion Thread

[Whitemoon648]

I think it was around chapter 502 manga that i started to lean strongly toward Tobi= Obito theory. Also to add to that His counters with Kakashi and how he talked to him seemed as if he knew him well imo.

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

I thought it was Awesome. I always thought Minato was overrated ( specially) after Tsunade flash back that naruto has surpassed him and Jiraya.

But now It showed us how strong Minato actually was.

He defeated Tobi/Madara so easily and countered Kubi's blast with ease. Imagine Him against Pain. It would probably end so fast ( Of course with Minato winning *_*).

Minato is so much more interesting than Naruto. Plus he seems to be very intelligent. He thinks every think very thoroughly and seems to figure out other people's justsu's very fast. Something Naruto can not do.


Also Tobi's identity came up again. I think there are some hints that he might be Obito. He was acting very familiar with Yondaime ( as if he knew him very well/ As maybe teacher and students know each other? ) as well. So who knows. Tobi might actually not be Madara.

But with this chapter, i think the possibility of of Tobi being Rin is increased too.

[j0x]

lol the possibility of Rin being Tobi is more lesser than Obito being Tobi but i assume Rin can be Tobi just for the hints like

- Tobi knows Gai and Kakashi well
- Tobi does not use amaterasu/tsukuyomi/susano but rather he uses his sharingan thesame way a non-uchiha blood person like Kakashi does, Kakashi and Tobi only uses Space warping/manipulation jutsus, so Tobi might not be an Uchiha

but like i said on the other thread that Kakashi/Rin/Obito are still kids when the 4th hokage fight against Tobi so another possibility is that Tobi is i do not know, Tobi is really NoOne that do not have a backstory yet

[MidnightViper88]

For what motivation could Obito possibly have for taking up Madara's identity and God-level powers to travel the nations for a chakra collection in a plot to end the world as everyone knows it? If no sufficient answer can be created from that postulation, then substitute instances of "Obito" with "Rin", if not for the search of an answer, but for amusement instead..

But this is all too trifling...Let us take a moment to mourn the important and now-confirmed losses of Atsui and Samui, sealed in the Benihisago never to be extracted, and eaten by the Gedou Mazou, collateral damage in the imperfect revival of the Juubi...May they be briefly remembered, and then forgotten again...

And still, the end of the world as they know it looms over as the apocalypse is about to be revived; Meanwhile next door, Sasuke and Orochimaru prepare to go on a stroll, while the Five Kage vs. Madara-independent scene is at a zero-sum stand-still...Because of the other two plot lines having just started themselves, I cynically don't believe the Juubi revival line will advance too far...None-the-less, it's getting dark in here...

[d3monlord]

who knows who created the Ten Tails????? wheres that monster come from

[j0x]

Originally Posted by d3monlord

who knows who created the Ten Tails????? wheres that monster come from

Ten-Tails is basically the God on the naruto universe, so the same questions can be asked here on our universe that who created God? wheres that God comes from?

[thewupk]

For some reason the time traveling Sasuke theory is at the top of my list right now of who is Obito.

Originally Posted by j0x

Ten-Tails is basically the God on the naruto universe, so the same questions can be asked here on our universe that who created God? wheres that God comes from?

So what does that make the Sage who conquered 'God'? lol

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

For what motivation could Obito possibly have for taking up Madara's identity and God-level powers to travel the nations for a chakra collection in a plot to end the world as everyone knows it? If no sufficient answer can be created from that postulation, then substitute instances of "Obito" with "Rin", if not for the search of an answer, but for amusement instead..

But this is all too trifling...Let us take a moment to mourn the important and now-confirmed losses of Atsui and Samui, sealed in the Benihisago never to be extracted, and eaten by the Gedou Mazou, collateral damage in the imperfect revival of the Juubi...May they be briefly remembered, and then forgotten again...

And still, the end of the world as they know it looms over as the apocalypse is about to be revived; Meanwhile next door, Sasuke and Orochimaru prepare to go on a stroll, while the Five Kage vs. Madara-independent scene is at a zero-sum stand-still...Because of the other two plot lines having just started themselves, I cynically don't believe the Juubi revival line will advance too far...None-the-less, it's getting dark in here...

We're getting trolled. One has to wonder how long the ten tails has to be revived before Tobi's plan is activated. I'm assuming he won't have to be out too long for it too happen. And he got way over-hyped in this chapter as some incredible being that nobody alive has any chance of stopping. So chances are there will be no need to as Naruto is going to somehow defeat Tobi and stop it from happening.

[j0x]

Originally Posted by thewupk

So what does that make the Sage who conquered 'God'? lol

in our universe Christ (a God) has been conquered and killed by humans only so its not that far fetched, and considering those God Stories are base on man made stories too like book and manga

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Hunter

The main problem of this theory beside, as James put it, the sheer boringness of it all was that it made no sense for many reasons including a complete lack of motive, a huge difference in power, a completely different personality, a inexplicably vast amount of knowledge and many chronological inconsistencies like the fact that Tobi has been around since before Obito was even born.
But then it's a shounen world and the impossible is only marginally less likely than the normal.

I have to disagree with some of what you said Hunter .

As for the theory being boring, i think this is a relative and personal thing. Some might think it is boring and some think of it as not. It's just a personal thing imo.

As difference in power, i don't think he is as powerful as every one make him to be. He is powerful, he is very strong. But imo he is no where as powerful as let's say Madara. He gains his power through his eyes.

His personality could have changed due to circumstances. He disagrees with the whole system of Shinobi world the same way as Obito did. There are a lot of similarities imo.

As his amount of knowledge i have to agree it hasn't fully been explained why. It could have something to do with his eye power or maybe even Zetsu. Also just a theory, if he is indeed Obito, maybe he can see through kakashi's Sharingan? I mean Orichimaru could see through Anko when he was resurrected so i think that is a possibility.

Finally the chronological inconsistencies ( could some times be called loop holes) could be explained later on. With Long anime/manga like Naruto, bleach, One piece, ... there are bound to be some inconsistencies. Some get explained and some don't. But i agree with you there are some that would make you think twice before agreeing with the Obit=Tobi theory. One would be that he claimed to have given Nagato the eyes and we know Nagato got the eyes when he was just a kid, many many years ago. Also i think he claimed he fought against the first hokage ( correct me if i am wrong). So yes here are two inconsistencies.

But they can always be explained in future. I couldn't probably have said it better myself

Originally Posted by hunter

But then it's a shounen world and the impossible is only marginally less likely than the normal

Just a few possible explanations, Some of what Tobi has claimed are just lies. Or maybe he can uses his eyes to time travel to the past.

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

For what motivation could Obito possibly have for taking up Madara's identity and God-level powers to travel the nations for a chakra collection in a plot to end the world as everyone knows it? If no sufficient answer can be created from that postulation, then substitute instances of "Obito" with "Rin", if not for the search of an answer, but for amusement instead..

We don't know everything but we know that he is against the Shinobi world as it stands and wants to change it with his plan.

As for Rin it is a possibilty. Who else beside Obito know so much about Kakashi? My guess would be Rin. Rin also loved Kakashi. So it would make sense for her to know as much about Kakashi ( if not more) than Obito. As for Rin is a girl and Tobi sounds like a guy, i would like you direct you to Third hokage vs Orichimaru fight. Remeber when Orochimaru took his mask off and started to talk as a woman?

There are also some hints that Orochimaru and Tobi have some connection with each other ( which we don't know fully about yet).

As i mentioned earlier in post Maybe if tobi is obito he could have seen everything through Kakashi's eyes ( his former eyes). Also the way tobi said that "there is no wonder you have lived your life with full of regret" to Kakashi, it seemed as if he has known everything about Kakashi until now. It didn't seem like he was just talking about the past.

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

But this is all too trifling...Let us take a moment to mourn the important and now-confirmed losses of Atsui and Samui, sealed in the Benihisago never to be extracted, and eaten by the Gedou Mazou, collateral damage in the imperfect revival of the Juubi...May they be briefly remembered, and then forgotten again...

LoL. Who knows maybe they will come back . Well i sure hope so.

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

And still, the end of the world as they know it looms over as the apocalypse is about to be revived; Meanwhile next door, Sasuke and Orochimaru prepare to go on a stroll, while the Five Kage vs. Madara-independent scene is at a zero-sum stand-still...Because of the other two plot lines having just started themselves, I cynically don't believe the Juubi revival line will advance too far...None-the-less, it's getting dark in here...

Haha kinda a win lose situation. As you said there are like way too many things we want to know about. Sasuke w/orichimaru , The hokage fight and the Naruto vs Tobi fight. Whichever of the plots that are explained first will make one anxious to know about the other two imo ( thus the win lose situation ).

I am personally trying to just stop reading the Manga and go back to anime only. Naruto is much more enjoyable for me to watch than read. Manga is great and all but doesn't have the Back ground music, animation, ... . Let's see what happens next week. I might be back for the next chapter or just stop reading it.

[ronin myael]

The author obviously thought up and retconned many things throughout the manga.

Heck, Jiraiya's Sage Mode was introduced during the Pain Arc. It wasn't even hinted before that.

jiraiya had always called himself a gamma-sennin or frog sage. that to me is a clue to his sennin abilities. what i don't get is why didn't he use it when he, tsunade and naruto fought oro and kabuto? he certainly could have used it when they were having so much difficulty handling oro. seems to me kishi didn't know what sennin mode is all about yet. but other than that, i pretty much agree with the rest of your post.

ugh, so Tobi could had the 10 tails just by using portion of the tailed beast and not the complete beast? with this and how Orochimaru was revived has been one of Kishis lowest moments. The problem is not that if its make sense, is that every conflict and plot made about Akatsuki until now was flushed down the toilet, stuff on how they needed 3 days of the complete Akatsuki team to seal one tail beast, how not having Orochimaru made it slower, how Chakra was important to this process; all of this was baasically overlooked and the solution to the problem Kishi had at hand was solved in no more than two pages with little to no effort from Tobis part.

i couldn't agree more. this whole ten-tails revival just seems too convenient. sure, kishi thought up some pretty interesting situations for tobi to get the kyuubi and hachibi chakra but it seems too damn easy! if you only need a fraction of the beasts' chakra then why go through the lengths of taking out each bijuu from their hosts when they could have simply cut down a piece of their chakra like what they did to the hachibi?

Because it is so boring. Tobi=Obito was a theory most fans thought of seconds after Tobi was introduced, but immediately rejected because only a hack writer would so lazily write such a storyline. In the end, if Tobi is Obito, then Kishimoto would have put more creative thought into jerking his audience around on the issue rather than the creative thought required to actualy come up with something interesting.

lol agreed!

there is one sharp thorn in the side of the Tobito theory. The ninetails attack. As we saw, Tobi attacked kohona with the ninetails 15 years ago. This would have been After otito's "death" but it would have been too soon for him to have acquired Madara's powers (plus he would have been to young and short to fit the role)... So the only way for Obito to be tobi would be is that tobi that attacked back then was a different tobi, or if Tobi is some kind of entity that's been pulling some kind of body switching-trick like orochimaru to keep himself alive and young and thus saved obito so that he could use him as his latest host... either that, or maybe the sharingan has time travel powers now... Which by that point we are getting quite ridiculous, and now things are feeling rather convoluted

that's what i've been saying all these years but the obito theory just won't die and now kishi has even given us hints that it might actually be true. oh god forbid! it certainly is possible, but my problem with this theory is that it's too cheesy! like several people have already mentioned, it's a theory that almost everyone came up with when tobi's character first surfaced. it won't be much of a twist if indeed tobi is obito. it would certainly be worse than kakashi's resurrection or oro's revival using that cursed seal horcrux thingy.

[thewupk]

Originally Posted by j0x

in our universe Christ (a God) has been conquered and killed by humans only so its not that far fetched, and considering those God Stories are base on man made stories too like book and manga

touche



10 letters

[solidguy]

I went through the Naruto character biographies here (not sure if that includes everyone though, anybody got a better source?) and I'd have to say I'm no closer to getting at who Tobi is. Nobody fresh comes to mind. Infact im starting to think we've never see this character before.
Although one thing i did notice was Shisui's appearance being eerily similar to that of the sages elder son. So that shall be my flavour of the month for my Tobi = theories.

[Dengar]

I still think it would be best if he turned out to be no one we know (yet) at all. Someone on the sidelines who hasn't been in the spotlight at all. That he was originally from konoha, well I don't think anyone doubted THAT.

"But Dengar, why would Kishi give him a mask for 5 years if we don't know him?"

My point exactly.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

Finally the chronological inconsistencies ( could some times be called loop holes) could be explained later on. With Long anime/manga like Naruto, bleach, One piece, ... there are bound to be some inconsistencies. Some get explained and some don't.

i hate to compare the three series but among them, one piece has the least inconsistencies (if there are any at all, some may argue that they couldn't find any) and it's the longest running series among the three. it's not about the length of the series, it's about the author's ability to write consistently. kubo is probably the most inconsistent among them but kishi seems to be catching up in that department. as far as i'm concerned, he still hasn't explained why kakashi gained mangekyou or if indeed he did since some fans seem to think kakashi's "mangekyou" is merely an upgraded sharingan. that should have been explained years ago but he seems to have forgotten that little piece of detail. that's just one of the many unanswered questions, inconsistencies or what others call asspulls in narutoverse. if he does answer them later, i hope he could justify why he had to wait all the way to the end of the manga to answer them.

I still think it would be best if he turned out to be no one we know (yet) at all. Someone on the sidelines who hasn't been in the spotlight at all. That he was originally from konoha, well I don't think anyone doubted THAT.

"But Dengar, why would Kishi give him a mask for 5 years if we don't know him?"

My point exactly.

yeah, i hope so too. the mask could be justified by a simple reason, tobi might have been a ninja who was quite known in konoha only he wasn't introduced in the series yet. he wears the mask because he doesn't want anyone to recognize him. he used madara's name to instill fear in his enemies. he might even be madara's disciple. he could have been kakashi and gai's former teacher. he could be one of the anbu who worked with them before. he could have been one of the jounin who was kakashi's superior, perhaps someone who worked closely with minato that's why he seemed to know minato as well. he could have been anybody. just because we haven't met the character yet, doesn't mean the rest of konoha hasn't either.

[yakumo-chan]

I think the reason Tobi started this war is because he wanted the five countries to be united....
which means Tobi is a Good guy,,
remember, Zetsu said that Tobi is a Good Boy!!!

Originally Posted by ronin myael

why kakashi gained mangekyou or if indeed he did since some fans seem to think kakashi's "mangekyou" is merely an upgraded sharingan. that should have been explained years ago but he seems to have forgotten that little piece of detail. that's just one of the many unanswered questions, inconsistencies or what others call asspulls in narutoverse. if he does answer them later, i hope he could justify why he had to wait all the way to the end of the manga to answer them.

If (Tobi == Obito)
{
Tobi gained the mangekyou, since Tobi's eyes and kakashi's eyes are a pair, Kakashi also gained the Mangekyou
}

tobi might have been a ninja who was quite known in konoha only he wasn't introduced in the series yet. he wears the mask because he doesn't want anyone to recognize him. he might even be madara's disciple. he could have been kakashi and gai's former teacher. he could be one of the anbu who worked with them before. he could have been one of the jounin who was kakashi's superior, perhaps someone who worked closely with minato that's why he seemed to know minato as well. he could have been anybody. just because we haven't met the character yet, doesn't mean the rest of konoha hasn't either.

I dont think so, there are some pages in the manga where TObi removes his mask but Kishimoto still dont show his face, what's the reason?
I think its stupid to hide tobi's face to the readers if he is someone we dont know.

I am 99% sure that TObi is already someone we know, i do think he is using Obito's body though

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by yakumo-chan

If (Tobi == Obito)
{
Tobi gained the mangekyou, since Tobi's eyes and kakashi's eyes are a pair, Kakashi also gained the Mangekyou
}

I dont think so, there are some pages in the manga where TObi removes his mask but Kishimoto still dont show his face, what's the reason?
I think its stupid to hide tobi's face to the readers if he is someone we dont know.

I am 99% sure that TObi is already someone we know, i do think he is using Obito's body though

tobi doesn't have mangekyou or at least he hasn't been seen activating it. if he does possess mangekyou then he should be able to use susanoo and amaterasu as well. but so far he hasn't displayed any of these abilities. if he does have them then why hasn't he used them yet?

as for why kishi doesn't show his face, other authors do that too. they would keep some characters hidden in the shadows to add drama to the story. it gives them more opportunities to create twists and surprise their readers.

[HasuMasu]

If you think about it, Chidori vs. Rasengan ended in a draw.

Here we see Tobi owning Rasengan with his back-scratcher, now I know why Madara was carrying it around back in the day...

It just looked so weird and random, until it owned Rasengan.

[haegar]

wasn't that back-scratcher also one of the Rikkudo Sage's playthings? If that's the case it ain't so much Tobi owning the Rasengan but rather the hax toy being impervious ... *tries imagining Tobi playing Bijou bomb tennis with the thing* - It is somewhat ridiculous admitteldy

[HasuMasu]

No I'm pretty sure it's not one of the Sage's toys, the only other person we've seen it with is Madara.

[solidguy]

Originally Posted by Detective-san

If you think about it, Chidori vs. Rasengan ended in a draw.

Here we see Tobi owning Rasengan with his back-scratcher, now I know why Madara was carrying it around back in the day...

It just looked so weird and random, until it owned Rasengan.

bee's pecs owned the chidori... i doubt even a rasen shuriken would break that fan.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

I have to disagree with some of what you said Hunter .

You haven't disagreed with anything I've said, you've only provided your ideas about how to explain the inconsistencies I raised. I didn't go into that in the first place, I was merely summarizing the basics of the argument to Dengar.
Now I do disagree with your opinion on many points and I could go into that if you wish to discuss this further (though the who is Tobi thread is a better place for that).

Personally my new pet theory is that Tobi is some kind of Zetsu offset, a mish mash of the personalities of dead shinobi that Zetsu ate. Hence his ridiculous amount of knowledge spanning generations, his weird body, his personality all over the place, the fact that he call himself No one and his desire to end individuality.