AnimeSuki Forums

Elo the Blue · 2010-12-10, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelKnight

Which Wing manga did he use the Lancaster codename in?

Episode Zero

peacecraft · 2010-12-10, 20:55

Just a little update~ I got my backordered issues of Gundam ACE today so I should start scanning and uploading by tomorrow!

MichaelKnight · 2010-12-10, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by peacecraft

Just a little update~ I got my backordered issues of Gundam ACE today so I should start scanning and uploading by tomorrow!

Thanks, peacecraft. I was starting to feel anxious that we're never gonna get them but thanks to you and Deacon Blues everybody will finally be able to read all the preceding and succeeding chapters. Thumbs!

Long Live · 2010-12-11, 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by IkuzeMinna

Pfff Bond ain't got nothing on Heero

By the way, we never learned about your final verdict. Did you like Wing?

Well I'm glad someone asked what my verdict is. I was kinda hesitant to just jump in and go 'So this is what I think about GW'. To be honest, I haven't finished it yet. I think I was at episode 46 and then I just decided to go back to episode 1 because I wanted to get a tighter grasp on what the fuck is going on. I don't know how else to rate Wing other than compare it to other Gundam series I've seen. So here's what I think:

SEED first half = good
SEED second half = decent
SEED Destiny = SHIT. Seriously people. WTF.
00 season 1 = badass
00 season 2 = badass minus
Wing = badass

But that will probably change when I finish it the second time. Well I'm being honest here.

But I liked what I saw. Although there are times that I got really lost and went WTF that I had to rewind 3 to 4 times. Sometimes because I'm kinda slow and sometimes things are just really fucked.

Because Wing is now in my list of preferred animes, I have a lot to say. So to those who don't want to hear it, better skip this post now or you'll get pissed.

Spoiler for Long long long read:

I'm currently on episode 23 again I think. One thing I noticed/learned is that every person within the series, whether it's a fruit vendor that's only going to appear for 4 seconds throughout 49 episodes or someone who is present all the time, YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO EVERY SINGLE WORD THEY SAY. I was really having a hard time doing that because one person says something and it's still trying to sink in my brain, another person is already delivering his lines. I think it's important to watch the series when you're locked up in your room without anything to distract you. Because, I THINK, the only way to fully understand the story is to listen to those who are telling it. And I think every person in Wing who had a line was there to tell the story. Even if a number of them only appeared for a few seconds, you really have to listen. But heh, I could be wrong. So be a bit tolerant and don't troll on me, boys and girls.

Characters. Whew. First off, there were a lot of terminologies that I didn't fucking understand. WTF is 1x2 and 1xR and shit like that. Now I know. And I want to shoot myself after finding out what they fucking mean. I saw Duo and Heero pictures prior to seeing Wing and I thought Duo was a chick cause the pictures are kind.. ahem, erotic, plus he had long hair. But WTF that is a dude. Where the hell did that come from? Now, Relena, the poor thing. I don't understand the hate. Ok, bear with me, people, each time I hear Wing, here's the deal: Some people---no, some girls, will always bring up the name Relena and say unimaginable things. I never understood how it was important. Relena is a chick's name and this anime is about robots. What's up with these fangirls. So I never gave a damn. I hate it when girls start bitching about other girls. But I was curious. And now after seeing Wing, I still don't get the Relena hate and how did the 1x2 (good lord, now I'm starting to do the numbering shit too) come to surface. Some imagination these girls have. It's just incredibly disturbing to me. I'm in my mid 20s so I guess I take Relena in with a mature grasp. I thought she was cool. She and Treize were the only ones who never made hasty decisions and screwed shit up. Everybody else screwed once in a while. But still. All the Gundam pilots are plain badass to me. Heero, I don't need to tell you why I like him. He bent metal bars twice. Kira is the ultimate fucking coordinator and I don't think he can do half the shit Heero did. I was entertained by Duo. I find Quatre the most admirable. Wufei. He could be an asshole at times but I like assholes like that so I have a lot of respect for the kid. Trowa would have to be my favorite. Probably because I like how he got along with all of the other pilots when he got paired with them. Zechs, I'm still trying to analyze him. Give me time. The other ladies were all cool. The chick with alien eyebrows is....... well scary to say the least. The schizo one is also epic but she's the one I like the least as her reason for having split personalities is due to her head over heels love for Treize. If anything, she's the hopeless romantic in the show and well, I'm not into romance so. Yeah. But I do agree with TV Tropes saying ALL the characters were badass. I like how all of them have personality issues and difficult to analyze. Very realistic, which is my taste. One thing I find unreal though is their age. I'm cool with the pilots but the "adults" such as Treize and Zechs are too fucking young to me.

Now. MOBILE SUITS! Shit yeah. The Gundams are almost like pornography. Shenlong is my favorite. But all of them are just magnificent to me. I like the designs and features. And that Zero System is the shit. If Wing was made in hi-def like 00, the Gundams would be pure pornography. Like concept sports cars, they will make me drool! Sad really, they only had 90s tech so it wasn't that jaw dropping. The Tall Geese and Epyon were pretty good but the 5 Gundams just blew me away. The typical gov't mobile suits are also well-designed, IMO. I like the Aries the most. I also like the Leo design but it's irking me how they're so weak and almost useless when the Gundams are there. I like how the Tauruses, Cancers and Pisceses transform into two-foot mobile suits. The mobile doll system though, bugs me. Why did they manufacture mobile suits that have cockpits if it's going to be unmanned anyway. I didn't like that. Funny cause the mobile doll concept reminded me of Iron Man 2. Anyway, just wondering if Bandai manufactures Arieses? I'm pretty sure they have all the Gundam models so I won't have a problem finding those. But I was fascinated with the Aries design. I hope they manufacture scaled MG's or PG's of that suit. I'd like one.

I did a research and saw screen caps of the Wing movie and following this thread informed me that the Gundams are fucking retconned in the film. Were they as badass in the film? I think the Gundams in the series were kickass I'd be really disappointed if the features were altered into something else. But heh. Who am I to complain.

Wing was unbelievably fast-paced, within the first 10 episodes a lot of things already happened. I can't count how many times I went WTF. One thing that bugs me to no end is Quatre's apparent ESP. One episode he had a cardiac arrest because Heero self-detonated. I was like, WTF. He claims Heero is the heart of space as said by some of you's, and he always says 'The soul of the outerspace tells me'. Then when Heero self-detonated Quatre had this heart attack thing. Seriously. WTF.

Sooooo.... long read huh? Well, I got hooked so be a little lenient peeps.

wingzerosnuggles · 2010-12-11, 10:09

When it comes to Gundam, I've mostly watched the nineties stuff.

X has a plot device similar to Frozen Teardrop in it if you look at what happens to Lucille. OMG, that ending theme though. @_@
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy8PupWFS9E

It's 1996, dude. This sounded like it was from the eighties. It reminds me of Peter Cetera's Glory of Love. It grew on me after awhile though. They replaced it halfway through with a female version in Japanese.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b6_2I6M2pI

G has another similarity with Rain getting brainwashed by the Devil Gundam.

Anyway, kinda random. Not going to voice much of my opinion on the other series since I can't exactly relate them to FT. I just find it amusing that similarities can be forged between GW and the series released right before and after it. After all, Wing Gundam's first appearance was in G Gundam.

Spoiler for Rant response:

In response to your long rant, you're right that GW is the kind of show you have to watch more than once to understand. I've lost count of how many times I've watched it. I watched it during its CN run. I didn't know it was edited for violence though. I was surprised at what I'd missed when I got the bootleg DVDs. Then I watched it again when the remastered DVDs came out. OZC Anime made an excellent dual audio release of the remastered DVDs. Can't exactly share the link due to AS policies though.

Anyway, you discover something new with every rewatch. I end up rewatching certain scenes over and over again when I do my video editing for AMVs. Sony Vegas doesn't chop the episode into clips for you so you have to fast forward through the episode to get to the scenes you want to cut. Needless to say, it amused me greatly when I remembered Heero using a cabbage (lettuce?) to distract an OZ soldier and knock him out:

Sometimes this series is just pure camp. xD

As for the characters, I agree with you on all counts. The eyebrow girl is Dorothy. Yes, the same Dorothy who becomes President of the Earth Sphere Unified Nations in Frozen Teardrop. You can imagine why that would be met with both horror and "Yeah, I can see that happening." As for Relena, she's a sore spot for the fandom. My personal opinion on her is that people who dislike her either don't understand her or are only watching for the "pretty boys and yaoi." Usually both actually. I really don't see any slash subtext for Heero and Duo whatsoever. I know you're not big on romance but, as stated in a previous post, Duo is obviously smitten with Hilde. It's common sense. They live together. They watch dogs and children in the park. At the very least, they're friends with benefits. You should see his reaction when she ends up getting injured in an effort to help him later on.

With the MS, Katoki's designs are gorgeous IMO. He's the one whose designs retconned the series designs. They're a bit "fantasy-ish" though with demon wings for Deathscythe and angel wings for Wing Zero. I like the green color scheme for Heavyarms better than the orange though. I recommend you watch it. There are two versions of EW: OVA and movie. The movie adds more scenes. Still, good to watch both because they have slightly altered endings.

And Quatre was supposed to be a Newtype but they scrapped that so yeah...

Also, I just realized...wasn't Relena sort of Heero's teacher during the pacifist school arc? ~~Hot for teacher. xD~~

Samiia · 2010-12-11, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingzerosnuggles

Spoiler for Rant Response:

I literally just LOL'D XD That's something I DON'T remember seeing on Toonami! But it's been a while...i need to just order a boxset already -___-

And I don't really get why girls hate Relena, neither. OR why girls would want Heero to be gay? That doesn't really add up to me. Being a fan girl (and at one point smitten with Heero, but who wasn't?) I think Relena is awesome and developed so much in the series, going from being a spoiled girl searching for meaning in her life to a mature and independent young woman who upholds a great responsibility.

Also i think it's important to note that Relena never asked Heero to rescue her (if i remember correctly), QUITE the contrary (yeah, having a standoff with someone in a Mobile suit who wants to kill you takes a HUGE set of balls). He saved/rescued her because he wanted to, even when he thought he NEEDED to kill her.

And I think it's apparent that Heero needed Relena's influence and someone to care about him enough to follow him around and talk him out of fighting/killing himself, considering his past as portrayed in FT. So Relena bashers should take an unbiased look at their relationship because I'm pretty sure if she wasn't there, he would have been dead at the end of the series, IMO :]

I'm starting to think that 'hostile' Relena may not be such a bad thing, btw. Well as far as 1xR goes ;] But i wish i knew what she did...stupid monthly installments!!

wingzerosnuggles · 2010-12-11, 15:52

It's from Episode 19.

The summation of my thoughts on fandom bashing Relena:

I'm also wondering how they'll pull off her "hostile" persona for FT. People have to remember that Relena wasn't a goody-goody. Girl was a sharpshooter if episode 11 is any indication. She knows how to handle a gun. She grabbed one from one of her captors in episode 5 and had no qualms about aiming it at them. Makes me think she was trained in self-defense. She had Noin at gunpoint in episode 11. Also, she freaked a bit the first time Heero aimed a gun at her in episode 2 but she quickly adapted following the initial shock of that first time. Staring down a gun in your face is no mean feat. That kind of calm takes a lot of self-control. I think she had training. White Collar has one of their agent characters as being a diplomat's daughter, and she said it was standard practice for children like her to be taught self-defense. Then again, her fighting ability isn't her major strength; it's her political influence. However, if they're going to have her pilot MS, she did kick Kira's ass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK-9S0PXjBU

If she ends up pwning Heero in an MS battle, I will laugh so hard. xD

Deacon Blues · 2010-12-11, 18:05

That website really loves making information up... I like the entry for "Unknown MS". Clearly it's the Maganac mobile suits and not mysterious black MS! ~_~

MichaelKnight · 2010-12-11, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingzerosnuggles

The summation of my thoughts on fandom bashing Relena:

I'm also wondering how they'll pull off her "hostile" persona for FT. People have to remember that Relena wasn't a goody-goody. Girl was a sharpshooter if episode 11 is any indication. She knows how to handle a gun. She grabbed one from one of her captors in episode 5 and had no qualms about aiming it at them. Makes me think she was trained in self-defense. She had Noin at gunpoint in episode 11. Also, she freaked a bit the first time Heero aimed a gun at her in episode 2 but she quickly adapted following the initial shock of that first time. Staring down a gun in your face is no mean feat. That kind of calm takes a lot of self-control. I think she had training. White Collar has one of their agent characters as being a diplomat's daughter, and she said it was standard practice for children like her to be taught self-defense. Then again, her fighting ability isn't her major strength; it's her political influence. However, if they're going to have her pilot MS, she did kick Kira's ass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK-9S0PXjBU

If she ends up pwning Heero in an MS battle, I will laugh so hard. xD

Relena changed though. Like, completely changed after she came back from her absence from the early episode 20's. By the time she was back, when she was narrating the first recap episode, she was completely different from how she was at the beginning til her last appearance prior to her return on the recap episode. Lol I just noticed that on the recap episodes, the first one was narrated by Heero and Relena and the second one was by Treize and Lady. *squee* The pairs that I support! xD

Anyway, about the Relena hate. Well they can hate all they want. She's a well-planned character and those who recognise how awesome she is will say she's also very well-written. Plus, her role! Any chick would want to be in those shoes! She started off as the Queen Bee who has her own fanboys and fangirls at school, turned out to be a princess, became THE QUEEN OF THE WORLD, and Space Colonies - whom everybody expected to be a figurehead, btw, but ended up turning the tables thus making you go "BURN you old Romefeller farts!". Heck, even Treize said she is stronger than Heero! And Heero admits that she is! She's surrounded by these 5 gorgeous young men who fight for her beliefs and... any way I look at it, there's also this wonderful classic dilemma that she is in: her brother and Heero are archenemies. And she and Heero have this star-crossed thing going on between them. And yet fate always brings them together [kinda gay when you say it like that but, ya know!]. Shizz my shipping aura is intensifying. LOL. Oh, wait, last... she comes in second after Heero in the CAST LISTING. SECOND! Not Duo, not Treize, not Zechs. RELENA. They hate on her because she's such a threat! OMG I sound antagonising now. Better stop. Everytime I talk about her I just get carried away! LOL. Anyway, go Team Relena!

IkuzeMinna · 2010-12-11, 19:15

*sigh* While I couldn't feel happier about all the praise Relena is receiving (her owning Kira had me lol), I'm actually dreading her appearance in FT. Considering the way all the other women in the novel have acted so far... I'm not trying to impute misogynism to Sumisawa but I sincerely hope he will convey her awesomeness as it should be and not let her character degenerate to some crazy nutcase trying to take over the world. Naked @_@
Then again, what were the fanfic clichés about Relena?

Samiia · 2010-12-11, 23:58

That picture is awesome.

I would love to see her and Heero face off in a mobile suit battle. And i would love to see her WIN, that would be epic :] And i think Relena being hostile sort of even's the playing field for these two and puts them on the same level, because I do believe Heero thinks she's wayyy to good for him ('Just forget about me, Relena. Life is cheap, especially mine!'. Also when he states that Relena stronger than him while he went to save her at...Peacemillion? Am i right?) And just because she's like public enemy number one or whatever, doesn't mean she's necessarilly bad. This series has a lot of gray areas so i'm interested in seeing her intentions behind her doing whatever she did.

But that could all mean nothing if she's not even the same person anymore -___- I'm hoping that Relena learned of her and her brothers past, realizing they're milliardo's memories, and changed, rather than her thinking her brothers memories are hers and becoming rogue without really knowing who she previously was. What i mean is i want her to be consious of her change in mindset rather than her being a victim of a bunch of morons who didn't defrost her right. I hope i am making sense lmao !

MichaelKnight · 2010-12-12, 00:41

I am dreading how Sumisawa wrote her in FT as well. While I fell in love with all of Relena's complex character development stages as they're all realistic and deep, I thought she was at her best when she has finally matured. Which was from the first recap episode up until Endless Waltz.

I'm kinda anxious as it seems to me that Sumisawa has written the characters in FT a bit fanfic-ishly to me. A bit OOC. It's like it's the bad fanfics that have gotten into him.

I hope he didn't forget how beautifully he wrote her and that he doesn't write her completely differently in FT. Well she's not herself at the moment, so that's obviously acceptable that he wrote her differently, but if the time comes where in FT she finally goes back to how she was, I hope she goes back to herself that I saw and liked in the series/EW. If he writes her going back to how she was as a pathetic stalker/hopeless romantic like dumbass haters insist she were, or even if he just wrote something that will give more excuses to haters to claim she's like that, I'm gonna skin him alive.

Samiia · 2010-12-12, 02:06

Yeahh throwing character development out the window like that would definitely be grating. He already did it to Heero (or so it appears), why not Relena? Heck, maybe he'll actually kill her this time!!! Or not :] But I wouldn't be shocked considering how left field this novel is, imo. All of this is pretty much nooottt what i envisioned happening post EW...I didn't even think they had the technology to freeze people during the series O.O

wingzerosnuggles · 2010-12-12, 09:54

Didn't they have Une in a capsule after she was shot? Not sure if she was frozen though.

Washu-Chan · 2010-12-12, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingzerosnuggles

Didn't they have Une in a capsule after she was shot? Not sure if she was frozen though.

Une was carried out in a capsule in episode 42, after Barge was destroyed.

Ammy-Pie · 2010-12-12, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingzerosnuggles

Didn't they have Une in a capsule after she was shot? Not sure if she was frozen though.

I don't think she was frozen, I think it was more of a repair pod. That way, she could be transported safely while being monitored.

Tobi_Uchiha · 2010-12-12, 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ammy-Pie

I don't think she was frozen, I think it was more of a repair pod. That way, she could be transported safely while being monitored.

maybe it was an early prototype later adapted into a freeze pod, but what was used in the anime and now being used in the novel may completly differ entirly.

Faerie · 2010-12-12, 11:29

Hey guys

I normally lurk. But I feel like saying something today- hope no one minds

about FT and Relena:
first off, let me say: I'm a girl, and I'm neither a (yaoi) fangirl nor do I especially admire Heero. I actually never cared 2 cents about him ^^'
When I heard Relena was frozen, I thought it was lame. Hearing she changed personalities however, this might finally make me interested- in both her and the novel. Now, I guess most won't agree with me, but Evil!Relena has total appeal for me, as in all honesty, the reason I never made a connection to her was her goody-goody image (!!!) in the show.

She isn't one. Why was she portrayed as one? As some mentioned, she has some badass qualities, and she's not as nice and sweet as she is painted to be.
You guys think girls dislike Relena for yaoi or jealousy reasons, so I thought I'd try to explain it's not always the case. Not that I hate Relena, I just don't care for her however

Let's face it- everyone in the show pretty much idolises her, we're told she's practically some kind of messiah (by Zechs. By Noin. And to me, it always felt that the series wanted the viewer to sort of agree that her way is the right way. even though she mostly does ridiculous things, is unnecessary judgmental over people- take the way she accused her brother, how very uncalled for.)
Of course she then grows up, but for some reason I could never shake the feeling that whatever one does, Relena will be standing behind you, wagging her finger in judgy disapproval :s

In short: I wouldn't have minded Relena had she been portrayed more as what she is- flawed, and most of the time- sorry- a huge b*tch

instead of idolized by the writers and the entire cast.
edit: That's not the fault of Relena though, it's her portrayal. It ruined her for me :/
I probably would have loved her for that. Like this, and plus the annoying mary sue elements (rich girl loved by everyone at her school, totally awesome, secretly a princess, badass for no given reason etc), she came with that nasty feeling that some characters that are too perfect, or seen as perfect despite being flawed leave. You know the classic examples- Lacus, being the most prominent.

SO, I have high hopes for Changed!Relena

She might actually be what I had somehow missed from her before.
Or maybe I'm overestimating this novel

It's pretty creepy so far, story-wise.

wingzerosnuggles · 2010-12-12, 11:51

Despite the fact that everyone idolizes her, keep in mind that she NEVER thought herself worthy of all that admiration. If there's one character who didn't have faith in Relena, it was Relena herself. It's the reason she recognized the peril her kingdom was in. She referred to "a peace as fragile as glass," after all.

As for being judgmental, Omnicat has said this way better than I ever could:

Her idealism doesn't spring from naïvety, but from pure, undiluted stubbornness. She wants to see right to be done, and won't take no for an answer. Simple as that.

Relena does what is right. Not what is easy, or safe, or practical, or good for her. What is right. No compromises. She's willing to make sacrifices, take risks, make a fool of herself, do whatever is necessary for what she believes in. Even when she knows that what she wants is as good as impossible, she gives it her all. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not worth it.

Source: http://omnicat.livejournal.com/123371.html

Everyone thinks the pilots are awesome because they fight and so on. Relena sucks. She's the one trying to stop the killing, trying to make people see sense. She's a buzzkill for the action. However, these teenage boys live in a world that forces them into becoming murderers. She has to be "judgy" and voice her opinions to change that world. In what way is that wrong?

And I resent that comparison to Lacus. Relena never had to give Heero a Gundam, run a ship or be a fucking pop star to make her mark.

Deacon Blues · 2010-12-12, 12:01

While I sort of agree with what omnicat has to say, they still didn't characterize her all that well in the show. She's the stepdaughter of a Foreign Affairs Minister who was always tagging along with him to the colonies. I don't know many kids that are actually apprised of the situation whose parents do diplomatic work. She commented in Episode.01 about how her father needs to spend more time with her, yet later on she's magically at the helm of an entire kingdom carrying on her "father's ideals". She talked the talk but she couldn't really walk the walk. For such a young teenager she seemed a bit too grown up for her own good... stubborn or not. I'm interested in hearing about this sort of situation given the situation around Endless Waltz. She was advocating the terraformation of Mars (if you follow the EW manga route), so it's rather bizarre that she'd snap.

Either that or she handed things off to Dorothy while she felt she'd be better off in the future or something.

2010-12-10, 20:55	Link #1242
peacecraft Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: USA Age: 36	Just a little update~ I got my backordered issues of Gundam ACE today so I should start scanning and uploading by tomorrow! __________________ MAL http://myanimelist.net/profile/peacecraft FT & Glory RAW Scans http://gloryoflosers.blogspot.com Grandfather, roses just don't look good on me either. I'd look better soaked in the blood of OZ! Relena Darlian, Episode 11 The Whereabouts of Happiness

2010-12-11, 10:09	Link #1245
wingzerosnuggles Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	When it comes to Gundam, I've mostly watched the nineties stuff. X has a plot device similar to Frozen Teardrop in it if you look at what happens to Lucille. OMG, that ending theme though. @_@ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy8PupWFS9E It's 1996, dude. This sounded like it was from the eighties. It reminds me of Peter Cetera's Glory of Love. It grew on me after awhile though. They replaced it halfway through with a female version in Japanese. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b6_2I6M2pI G has another similarity with Rain getting brainwashed by the Devil Gundam. Anyway, kinda random. Not going to voice much of my opinion on the other series since I can't exactly relate them to FT. I just find it amusing that similarities can be forged between GW and the series released right before and after it. After all, Wing Gundam's first appearance was in G Gundam. Spoiler for Rant response: In response to your long rant, you're right that GW is the kind of show you have to watch more than once to understand. I've lost count of how many times I've watched it. I watched it during its CN run. I didn't know it was edited for violence though. I was surprised at what I'd missed when I got the bootleg DVDs. Then I watched it again when the remastered DVDs came out. OZC Anime made an excellent dual audio release of the remastered DVDs. Can't exactly share the link due to AS policies though. Anyway, you discover something new with every rewatch. I end up rewatching certain scenes over and over again when I do my video editing for AMVs. Sony Vegas doesn't chop the episode into clips for you so you have to fast forward through the episode to get to the scenes you want to cut. Needless to say, it amused me greatly when I remembered Heero using a cabbage (lettuce?) to distract an OZ soldier and knock him out: Sometimes this series is just pure camp. xD As for the characters, I agree with you on all counts. The eyebrow girl is Dorothy. Yes, the same Dorothy who becomes President of the Earth Sphere Unified Nations in Frozen Teardrop. You can imagine why that would be met with both horror and "Yeah, I can see that happening." As for Relena, she's a sore spot for the fandom. My personal opinion on her is that people who dislike her either don't understand her or are only watching for the "pretty boys and yaoi." Usually both actually. I really don't see any slash subtext for Heero and Duo whatsoever. I know you're not big on romance but, as stated in a previous post, Duo is obviously smitten with Hilde. It's common sense. They live together. They watch dogs and children in the park. At the very least, they're friends with benefits. You should see his reaction when she ends up getting injured in an effort to help him later on. With the MS, Katoki's designs are gorgeous IMO. He's the one whose designs retconned the series designs. They're a bit "fantasy-ish" though with demon wings for Deathscythe and angel wings for Wing Zero. I like the green color scheme for Heavyarms better than the orange though. I recommend you watch it. There are two versions of EW: OVA and movie. The movie adds more scenes. Still, good to watch both because they have slightly altered endings. And Quatre was supposed to be a Newtype but they scrapped that so yeah... Also, I just realized...wasn't Relena sort of Heero's teacher during the pacifist school arc? ~~Hot for teacher. xD~~ Last edited by wingzerosnuggles; 2010-12-11 at 14:23.

2010-12-11, 15:52	Link #1247
wingzerosnuggles Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	It's from Episode 19. The summation of my thoughts on fandom bashing Relena: I'm also wondering how they'll pull off her "hostile" persona for FT. People have to remember that Relena wasn't a goody-goody. Girl was a sharpshooter if episode 11 is any indication. She knows how to handle a gun. She grabbed one from one of her captors in episode 5 and had no qualms about aiming it at them. Makes me think she was trained in self-defense. She had Noin at gunpoint in episode 11. Also, she freaked a bit the first time Heero aimed a gun at her in episode 2 but she quickly adapted following the initial shock of that first time. Staring down a gun in your face is no mean feat. That kind of calm takes a lot of self-control. I think she had training. White Collar has one of their agent characters as being a diplomat's daughter, and she said it was standard practice for children like her to be taught self-defense. Then again, her fighting ability isn't her major strength; it's her political influence. However, if they're going to have her pilot MS, she did kick Kira's ass: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK-9S0PXjBU If she ends up pwning Heero in an MS battle, I will laugh so hard. xD Last edited by wingzerosnuggles; 2010-12-11 at 16:08.

2010-12-11, 18:05	Link #1248
Deacon Blues Supreme Grocer Scanlator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico	That website really loves making information up... I like the entry for "Unknown MS". Clearly it's the Maganac mobile suits and not mysterious black MS! ~_~ __________________ 「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか？戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。戦っている人間には充実感がある。そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」 So why do people fight, anyway? Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight. People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle. And it’s also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.

2010-12-12, 00:41	Link #1252
MichaelKnight Faaarrrkkkkk Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: The land down under.	I am dreading how Sumisawa wrote her in FT as well. While I fell in love with all of Relena's complex character development stages as they're all realistic and deep, I thought she was at her best when she has finally matured. Which was from the first recap episode up until Endless Waltz. I'm kinda anxious as it seems to me that Sumisawa has written the characters in FT a bit fanfic-ishly to me. A bit OOC. It's like it's the bad fanfics that have gotten into him. I hope he didn't forget how beautifully he wrote her and that he doesn't write her completely differently in FT. Well she's not herself at the moment, so that's obviously acceptable that he wrote her differently, but if the time comes where in FT she finally goes back to how she was, I hope she goes back to herself that I saw and liked in the series/EW. If he writes her going back to how she was as a pathetic stalker/hopeless romantic like dumbass haters insist she were, or even if he just wrote something that will give more excuses to haters to claim she's like that, I'm gonna skin him alive. __________________

2010-12-11, 19:15	Link #1250
IkuzeMinna Shall we? Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Europe	sigh While I couldn't feel happier about all the praise Relena is receiving (her owning Kira had me lol), I'm actually dreading her appearance in FT. Considering the way all the other women in the novel have acted so far... I'm not trying to impute misogynism to Sumisawa but I sincerely hope he will convey her awesomeness as it should be and not let her character degenerate to some crazy nutcase trying to take over the world. Naked @_@ Then again, what were the fanfic clichés about Relena?

2010-12-11, 23:58	Link #1251
Samiia Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Scranton, PA Age: 34	That picture is awesome. I would love to see her and Heero face off in a mobile suit battle. And i would love to see her WIN, that would be epic :] And i think Relena being hostile sort of even's the playing field for these two and puts them on the same level, because I do believe Heero thinks she's wayyy to good for him ('Just forget about me, Relena. Life is cheap, especially mine!'. Also when he states that Relena stronger than him while he went to save her at...Peacemillion? Am i right?) And just because she's like public enemy number one or whatever, doesn't mean she's necessarilly bad. This series has a lot of gray areas so i'm interested in seeing her intentions behind her doing whatever she did. But that could all mean nothing if she's not even the same person anymore -___- I'm hoping that Relena learned of her and her brothers past, realizing they're milliardo's memories, and changed, rather than her thinking her brothers memories are hers and becoming rogue without really knowing who she previously was. What i mean is i want her to be consious of her change in mindset rather than her being a victim of a bunch of morons who didn't defrost her right. I hope i am making sense lmao !

2010-12-12, 02:06	Link #1253
Samiia Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Scranton, PA Age: 34	Yeahh throwing character development out the window like that would definitely be grating. He already did it to Heero (or so it appears), why not Relena? Heck, maybe he'll actually kill her this time!!! Or not :] But I wouldn't be shocked considering how left field this novel is, imo. All of this is pretty much nooottt what i envisioned happening post EW...I didn't even think they had the technology to freeze people during the series O.O

2010-12-12, 09:54	Link #1254
wingzerosnuggles Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	Didn't they have Une in a capsule after she was shot? Not sure if she was frozen though.

2010-12-12, 11:29	Link #1258
Faerie Joseph Defense Squad Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Mars	Hey guys I normally lurk. But I feel like saying something today- hope no one minds about FT and Relena: first off, let me say: I'm a girl, and I'm neither a (yaoi) fangirl nor do I especially admire Heero. I actually never cared 2 cents about him ^^' When I heard Relena was frozen, I thought it was lame. Hearing she changed personalities however, this might finally make me interested- in both her and the novel. Now, I guess most won't agree with me, but Evil!Relena has total appeal for me, as in all honesty, the reason I never made a connection to her was her goody-goody image (!!!) in the show. She isn't one. Why was she portrayed as one? As some mentioned, she has some badass qualities, and she's not as nice and sweet as she is painted to be. You guys think girls dislike Relena for yaoi or jealousy reasons, so I thought I'd try to explain it's not always the case. Not that I hate Relena, I just don't care for her however Let's face it- everyone in the show pretty much idolises her, we're told she's practically some kind of messiah (by Zechs. By Noin. And to me, it always felt that the series wanted the viewer to sort of agree that her way is the right way. even though she mostly does ridiculous things, is unnecessary judgmental over people- take the way she accused her brother, how very uncalled for.) Of course she then grows up, but for some reason I could never shake the feeling that whatever one does, Relena will be standing behind you, wagging her finger in judgy disapproval :s In short: I wouldn't have minded Relena had she been portrayed more as what she is- flawed, and most of the time- sorry- a huge b*tch instead of idolized by the writers and the entire cast. edit: That's not the fault of Relena though, it's her portrayal. It ruined her for me :/ I probably would have loved her for that. Like this, and plus the annoying mary sue elements (rich girl loved by everyone at her school, totally awesome, secretly a princess, badass for no given reason etc), she came with that nasty feeling that some characters that are too perfect, or seen as perfect despite being flawed leave. You know the classic examples- Lacus, being the most prominent. SO, I have high hopes for Changed!Relena She might actually be what I had somehow missed from her before. Or maybe I'm overestimating this novel It's pretty creepy so far, story-wise.

2010-12-12, 11:51	Link #1259
wingzerosnuggles Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	Despite the fact that everyone idolizes her, keep in mind that she NEVER thought herself worthy of all that admiration. If there's one character who didn't have faith in Relena, it was Relena herself. It's the reason she recognized the peril her kingdom was in. She referred to "a peace as fragile as glass," after all. As for being judgmental, Omnicat has said this way better than I ever could: Her idealism doesn't spring from naïvety, but from pure, undiluted stubbornness. She wants to see right to be done, and won't take no for an answer. Simple as that. Relena does what is right. Not what is easy, or safe, or practical, or good for her. What is right. No compromises. She's willing to make sacrifices, take risks, make a fool of herself, do whatever is necessary for what she believes in. Even when she knows that what she wants is as good as impossible, she gives it her all. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not worth it. Source: http://omnicat.livejournal.com/123371.html Everyone thinks the pilots are awesome because they fight and so on. Relena sucks. She's the one trying to stop the killing, trying to make people see sense. She's a buzzkill for the action. However, these teenage boys live in a world that forces them into becoming murderers. She has to be "judgy" and voice her opinions to change that world. In what way is that wrong? And I resent that comparison to Lacus. Relena never had to give Heero a Gundam, run a ship or be a fucking pop star to make her mark.

2010-12-12, 12:01	Link #1260
Deacon Blues Supreme Grocer Scanlator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico	While I sort of agree with what omnicat has to say, they still didn't characterize her all that well in the show. She's the stepdaughter of a Foreign Affairs Minister who was always tagging along with him to the colonies. I don't know many kids that are actually apprised of the situation whose parents do diplomatic work. She commented in Episode.01 about how her father needs to spend more time with her, yet later on she's magically at the helm of an entire kingdom carrying on her "father's ideals". She talked the talk but she couldn't really walk the walk. For such a young teenager she seemed a bit too grown up for her own good... stubborn or not. I'm interested in hearing about this sort of situation given the situation around Endless Waltz. She was advocating the terraformation of Mars (if you follow the EW manga route), so it's rather bizarre that she'd snap. Either that or she handed things off to Dorothy while she felt she'd be better off in the future or something. __________________ 「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか？戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。戦っている人間には充実感がある。そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」 So why do people fight, anyway? Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight. People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle. And it’s also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.