The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 1]

[magnum]

OMG! Did Dattebayo release their own sub for this series?

I find it it on tokyotosho.

[Jintor]

Nagato's music I thought was ace. Really spooky, althougha addmittedly not as synth'd as her original Explaination music.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

But, if the Haruhi universe has time in a linear fashion, how does one resolve the classic time paradox of going back in time to kill your father?

It doesn't have time in a "linear" fashion, it branches all the time in the multiverse. There is no "time paradox" in killing your father .... you're now an event in that time line which no longer includes you being born. You were born in the time line next door in which your father wasn't killed. Isn't this fun?

In "Thrice Apon a Time" the "linear" part was that the time paradox was that information sent back in time altered the events then - eliminating the time line that sent the information. They treated it like a wave function where many universes were possible but sending information back in time collapsed any branches that didn't have that data arrive (especially the one that sent it back).

All the team is trying to do in the Haruhi universe is stop the discontinuous fractures to the time lines that Haruhi is producing -- it doesn't really seem to address parts of the multiverse that exists farther away (many of which may have no Haruhi). I also imagine its possible Haruhi has borked the whole forking process but that's beyond the scope of the story. We're following THIS little band of people as they try to manage the impact to the universe they're emotionally attached to.

Its a fun little sci-fi fantasy with appealing elements but it really doesn't pay to look too carefully behind the curtain.

[teelotes]

Originally Posted by magnum

OMG! Did Dattebayo release their own sub for this series?

I find it it on tokyotosho.

I don't know which is more of a surprise:

1. Db picked this up.
2. L-E picked this up.

I don't watch Db rls, but I'm surprised L-E picked this up.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Vexx

It doesn't have time in a "linear" fashion, it branches all the time in the multiverse. There is no "time paradox" in killing your father .... you're now an event in that time line which no longer includes you being born. You were born in the time line next door in which your father wasn't killed. Isn't this fun?

Time travel in Haruhi appears to be almost totally linear, at least from Kyon's perspective, though.

[Roger Rambo]

Am I the only one who's seriously amused by how flippantly Loli Haruhi just walked away after getting done with Kyon? I found it hilarious.

Though I get the feeling from Haruhi's slump thinking about her past memories

Spoiler:

and what we heard from alternate Haruhi in disappearance, that she might have regretted walking off so casually.

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

But, if the Haruhi universe has time in a linear fashion, how does one resolve the classic time paradox of going back in time to kill your father?

My understanding of what the egg heads think about time travel currently, to put it in layman's terms, is that you're not actually in your past when you time travel. You're in an alternate dimension that's identical to what your past would have been like. Any changes made would be equivalent to mucking up an alternate reality.

Of course this is beyond the point, since Haruhi uses more conventional time travel.

[Vicious108]

Great episode that embodied everything that makes Haruhi so good. A shame that the next new one is going to take a while to come out now.

[MainCharacter]

Or, you can't kill your father in the past. Since your father still has to have you, he can't die. You could think you are going to go kill your father, but I assure you something will come up and you won't get a chance to do it.

I don't go for the whole "alternate past" thing. I think it's linear.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

Or, you can't kill your father in the past. Since your father still has to have you, he can't die. You could think you are going to go kill your father, but I assure you something will come up and you won't get a chance to do it.

I don't go for the whole "alternate past" thing. I think it's linear.

In Haruhi, it's linear. In real life, it's probably the whole alternate timelines thing.

[khryoleoz]

Kyon responds to Mikuru in the exact same way I do. Man, Mikuru is as lovable as ever.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Time travel in Haruhi appears to be almost totally linear, at least from Kyon's perspective, though.

Actually you've made quite a good point. Telling the story from Kyon's perspective is the ONLY way to tell the story without going completely nuts. Picking one conscious point of view that is relatively continuous. Something akin to the main character in Slaughterhouse Five by Vonnegut.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Actually you've made quite a good point. Telling the story from Kyon's perspective is the ONLY way to tell the story without going completely nuts. Picking one conscious point of view that is relatively continuous. Something akin to the main character in Slaughterhouse Five by Vonnegut.

I've heard of that. Should probably pick it up someday.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

Or, you can't kill your father in the past. Since your father still has to have you, he can't die. You could think you are going to go kill your father, but I assure you something will come up and you won't get a chance to do it.

Which brings up some pretty amusing logical constraints. By this understanding of time travel, even if you have a device capable of transmitting 115,000 tons of matter into the past and decided to drop a giant stone monolith on the outskirts of las vegas, even though such an act should be theoretically possible, you'd fail every time you attempted to do it.

Take this for example. I could create a religious order that centered entirely around organizing a mass time travel exodus to the site of the JFK assassination where everyone dressed in chicken suits. I could convince 100,000 people to do this and give each of them a personal time travel device and have them all agree to warp the JFK assassination at one time. Stopping it won't even be our goal. We'll just stand around in plane sight by the thousands, wearing chicken suits while JFK gets shot.

According to predestined time travel logic, every single one of those 100,000 attempts to go into the past will fail. It's insane.

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

I don't go for the whole "alternate past" thing. I think it's linear.

It's bassically going to an alternate dimension where instead of the Nazi's conquering America, it's, for example, 1976.

[MainCharacter]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

In Haruhi, it's linear. In real life, it's probably the whole alternate timelines thing.

Yeah, I was referring to in Haruhi. I made a post on the last page about it as well. There are a lot of stories out there that use time travel like this.

I'm not so sure it wouldn't be like this in real life though. Than I again, I think time travel is impossible in real life so it doesn't matter. Real life sucks.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

I'm not so sure it wouldn't be like this in real life though.

Just repeating my vague recollection of what scientific types had to say on the matter.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

According to predestined time travel logic, every single one of those 100,000 attempts to go into the past will fail. It's insane.

No, not that.

Just that your actions will have no effect on the eventual outcome.

Or you'll somehow be unable to complete your experiment.

Or the time machine will just explode on a small off-chance, killing you with it.

Probably the latter.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

To put it a simpler way: You won't. Because you didn't. Time travel's funny that way.

[MainCharacter]

Yeah, it's not that your attempts to go back in time and wear a chicken suit is impossible. There is no force that will push you away from the site because it didn't happen. It's just that it didn't happen. If you make it your life goal to do something that didn't happen, then you are going to fail. Not because it's impossible to do it, but because something else is already set to happen that prevented you from doing it.

Like you getting shot and killed during a robbery the morning before you go back in time in a chicken suit. If you had gone back in time in a chicken suit, it would have already happened.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Just that your actions will have no effect on the eventual outcome.

Which is impossible assuming I manage to get 100 people in chicken suits to mysteriously appear out of nowhere moments before JFK gets assassinated. Merely doing a successful time warp effectively changes history beyond what can be explained away.
[QUOTE=Kaisos Erranon;2409738]
Or you'll somehow be unable to complete your experiment.
/QUOTE]You'll be unable to complete the experiment if you tried doing it 5,421,149,017 times.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Or the time machine will just explode on a small off-chance, killing you with it.

EXACTLY

"The act of traveling through time with the intent to change the past will cause you to explode."

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

Like you getting shot and killed during a robbery the morning before you go back in time in a chicken suit. If you had gone back in time in a chicken suit, it would have already happened.

Imagine if you tricked the evil aliens into transporting their home planet into the Earth Solar system during the 1930's so that they could easily conquer us due to their superior technology. But that would create a time paradox. So their entire planet explodes.

-Develop time travel
-let mock plans to use time travel to destroy your enemies, to your enemies
-Let enemies steal plans for time travel
-Let enemies blow themselves up trying to use time travel to beat you

EPIC WIN!

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

EXACTLY

"The act of traveling through time with the intent to change the past will cause you to explode."

The universe does not take lightly to people trying to cause paradoxes.

She's a bitch that way.