Guilty Crown - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll (FINALE)

[ipodi]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

It is actually the case: past the characters they have shown in the epilogue, a great deal of them wasn't really explained one bit:
The remaining funeral parlor members (Argo, Shibungi, Kurachi), Haruka, Arisa and Daryl. That's a hefty amount of named characters who didn't get an epilogue, especially the "least popular ones" who were left alive for no "real reason" yet didn't get any screen time of what they are currently doing.

To show the aftermath for all the members you mentioned here would require at least one additional episode. And if they need to show the things you wanted to see like whether Yahiro is married to Kanon, then we are talking about an entire episode on secondary characters who occupy only a very small amount of screen time throughout the series. This doesn't further the story.

Also, even the "main characters" being shown, you have a "very vague" idea of their new life in fact (I can't tell if Kanon is engaged to Yahiro or not): you don't even know what they actually are doing or anything, past the mere "happy mood" in celebrating Hare's birthday.

I think showing some minutiae detail not relevant to the main story arc is no more or less of a rush. It's like saying the previous noitamina series, AnoHana is rushed because we do not know whether Jintan or the rest of the gang have graduated from high school.

Worse: they again skipped Shu's predicament. They already accelerated his grief over Hare's death, but in this case, they literally skipped how he grieved and coped Inori's death.

I thought they did fine here. Shu is reliving his happier moments with Inori by reminiscing the time they spent together, alone. Inori is and will always be on his mind and he will treasure those memories.

Shu got over the death. We don't need to have that spelt out for us. It's a natural progression in life. We've all dealt with major life events, from being laid off to death of a family member and gotten over it eventually. You don't really need to see that to know how he has dealt with Inori's death.

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

But they didn't get away with it. The main organizers of these war crimes are dead.

Gai, Keido, Mana, and Segai are all dead, some of them as a direct result of their criminal actions. All the top players within Keido's organization are dead.

I will say it would have been more rewarding to see Haruka shoot or arrest Keido instead of him turning himself into Apocalypse crystals. I'll concede that much to you.

Organizers are not the only people who bear responsibility. So do the grunts who willingly and happily carry out the atrocities.

But for the sake of time, maybe we should just end the argument, because this is going nowhere, and I need to marathon another show.

[ipodi]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

So basically, Shu kills Gai, fails to save Inori, but the Voids and Apocalypse Virus are all sucked up, and suddenly the world reaches a happy end. Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this. Shu may have destroyed the root of the problem, but he cannot reverse all of the massacres and other abuses of power that occurred while the GHQ/Antibodies/Daath were in charge. I suppose I cannot convince other people, but in my opinion everything that happens has consequences, and letting perps get away scot-free and atrocities get handwaved away as if they'd never happened is not good writing (unless the writers are going for a bad end). I suppose you can argue that the writers kept it "intentionally vague," but there's a very fine line between that and "unresolved, forgotten issues," and I'll point people to the Negima and ME3 threads for more of those.

I am wondering if this call for blood is not a natural response to the fact that Shu got screwed over so majorly in this series. The guy who single-handedly saved the world lost his eyesight and the two girls who loved him so dearly. Meanwhile, all the people who have betrayed him (which included everyone sitting at the table celebrating Hare's birthday, except Kanon) got what seemed like a happy ending. It's really ridiculous, I know. We are at the point where Shu's death seems like a more preferable ending than the one he is getting now. Naturally then, we would like to see some justice be handed out to the bad guys in this series.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by silvercover

then the likes of souta shouldnt have been shown as well. he was just an F-class guy who contributed very small to shoe's group.

Souta did have significance. He played a pivotal role in getting Shu to come out of his social shell a bit, and to get a bit beyond worrying so much about what other people thought. Souta also pushed Shu into realizing his feelings for Inori.

While that's all an argument in favor of Souta, honestly, even if they had swapped Souta out for another character - say, Argo or Arisa - it wouldn't have mattered. Those characters don't matter. The point is their relation to Shu, and that they're representative of Shu's other friends and acquaintances.

Come on, guys. The title of the series is Guilty Crown, not "Guilty Kingdom."

Originally Posted by silvercover

and arisa wasnt a core?

She was, but then she took on a different role. Either way, as I said above, the core are only important as they relate to Shu. Within the confines of this series, they aren't important on their own.

Originally Posted by silvercover

yes I know its not really allowed to use CG as a comparison but hey they could have at least shown the other minor characters end with pictures. they even had time to show the funnel robot living happily with a family.

Why do people keep bringing up the robot family? It's not like Funnel went out on the dating scene and found a mate. Robots don't procreate, and Funnel was built by someone! Tsugumi built Funnel some companions and "children," and perhaps the series writers were using that imagery to imply that the other characters had moved on and had families of their own. Why make more of it than that?

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by ipodi

I am wondering if this call for blood is not a natural response to the fact that Shu got screwed over so majorly in this series. The guy who single-handedly saved the world lost his eyesight and the two girls who loved him so dearly. Meanwhile, all the people who have betrayed him (which included everyone sitting at the table celebrating Hare's birthday, except Kanon) got what seemed like a happy ending. It's really ridiculous, I know. We are at the point where Shu's death seems like a more preferable ending than the one he is getting now. Naturally then, we would like to see some justice be handed out to the bad guys in this series.

Nope. Shu is not the only victim. There were countless nameless background people who died too. Also, only Yahiro betrayed Shu (Ayase and Tsugumi never did), and I think he turned out to be a greater friend in the end after that.

[Team Rocket Elite]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

Nope. Shu is not the only victim. There were countless nameless background people who died too. Also, only Yahiro betrayed Shu (Ayase and Tsugumi never did), and I think he turned out to be a greater friend in the end after that.

Souta joined in with the rebellion when they got out of the barricaded area. It's arguable that Ayase and Tsugumi were in on the rebellion as well but it's not clear if it was support through inaction of if they actively did anything.

[tsunade666]

Ayase would help Shu but Tsugumi stops her because they can't do anything if even Argo is helping in the rebellion against Shuhrer

[gameboy234]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

But they didn't get away with it. The main organizers of these war crimes are dead.

Gai, Keido, Mana, and Segai are all dead, some of them as a direct result of their criminal actions. All the top players within Keido's organization are dead.

I will say it would have been more rewarding to see Haruka shoot or arrest Keido instead of him turning himself into Apocalypse crystals. I'll concede that much to you.

Didnt shu reverse the crystal? So is keido dead ?

[Timeless Enigma]

I don't know why people are thinking they are in Paris in the epilogue... People do know that the Tokyo Tower was inspired by the Eiffel Tower right? Before they show the scene of Hare's birthday party they show scenery shots with a highway sign that said something like "Nihonbashi."

[Team Rocket Elite]

Originally Posted by gameboy234

Didnt shu reverse the crystal? So is keido dead ?

Well there was the whole building collapsing thing to worry about as well but you are right that Keido may still be alive.

[Cosmic Eagle]

So....Keido was the real cause of it all then?

If he never interfered, Mana may be cured and none of this would have occured? Without him, the Daat could not have done anything more than rail and fart...They are after all, still a human organization no?

Was it the virus that trapped Mana in that unending role I wonder or was that Mana's fate anyway....

I hope she's really freed. Her lot is arguably the worst of anyone in the story, turned from a normal human into that....


As for the others besides Shoe, Inori, Mana, Gai and maybe Haruka....well they could all just go rot and no one would care....

Except for Rowan...jeez he was a nice guy....He should have used Darryl as a human shield and fled instead of the other way round


And yes....Shoe should have been allowed to follow the other three into wherever they are now...After all this time finally able to put everything right again and the reunion with the people he cared most from his childhood alongside Inori.....he should have been granted just that....

Originally Posted by zero7090

dam the plot/twist is so mainstream and obvious


Srsly the ONLY good scene in this ep is when daryl was saved by Rowan. All other are bland and anti climax.

Ichiro Okouchi, Hiroyuki Yoshino, i am disappointed. At least make a twist like Inori was the real personality of Mana and the sis-con Mana was actually the personality of the meteor (like Jenova) or something like that...

Wasn't that strongly implied?

[silvercover]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

So....Keido was the real cause of it all then?

If he never interfered, Mana may be cured and none of this would have occured? Without him, the Daat could not have done anything more than rail and fart...They are after all, still a human organization no?

uh not really. lost christmas was still bound to happen, unless shoe would accept mana's feelings of course.

really, keido actually didnt do much of anything nor did he affect the whole plot so much. well, except for making shoe fatherless.

[DarkyPwnz]

Shouldn't this whole section go to the old anime subforum now?

[Klashikari]

Way too early. Even if the series is over, some people might discuss a bit about it as the "current trend of the moment". Every sub forum stayed a certain period of time before being put in the older series section.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by silvercover

uh not really. lost christmas was still bound to happen, unless shoe would accept mana's feelings of course.

really, keido actually didnt do much of anything nor did he affect the whole plot so much. well, except for making shoe fatherless.

He killed Kurosu who could have cured Mana and a whole host of virus victims, thus throwing the Daath's plans into disarray etc...

Really if Kurosu lived things might have been far different

[Team Rocket Elite]

The Void Genome was something Kurosu created 10 years ago. Has he lived for those 10 years, things would be very different.

[DarkyPwnz]

Originally Posted by Team Rocket Elite

The Void Genome was something Kurosu created 10 years ago. Has he lived for those 10 years, things would be very different.

Yep,the genome would be even further improved. Then,they could peacefully make the human kind evolve by giving them all Void genomes.

[ipodi]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

Nope. Shu is not the only victim. There were countless nameless background people who died too. Also, only Yahiro betrayed Shu (Ayase and Tsugumi never did), and I think he turned out to be a greater friend in the end after that.

Tsugumi was complicit in the rebellion. Souta participated in the rebellion. So yeah, Shu got the worst deal.

[Arabesque]

If I were to view this as a stand alone episode, I'd say that it was a pretty good finale. Certainly, from a technical point of view this was everything that I had come to expect from the show. The music was top notch, with Gai's and Mana's final scene as well as the epilogue being wonderfully composed, the animation was among the best I had seen from the show as well (even if it did bug me that apparently the animators had removed any sort of restrains they had about the bouncing breasts but that's not really important at this point so I'll let it slide).

If I were to ignore how we got to this point, even the story was technically fine, if not brilliant. Gai's end was rather touching, I thought, even if his new motives don't gel with his behavior in the past 21 episodes. Inori's sacrifice was sad, if I had actually grown attached to her, I would've have probably cried that she passed away. The epilogue was nice, seeing everyone meeting again on Hare's birthday, even if I felt like that the show conveniently decided to focus on Shu's core group ignoring the fate of secondary characters that we had so much screen time devoted to them.

But you know, that's fine. Really, at this point I think we reached the point where all that could be said about Guilty Crown had been said numerous times over this past half-year. I had shared my concerns about the show before it's airing, and hoped it would turn out to be better than I originally expected (a dumb but fun show, is what I wrote if I recall correctly), but for what's it's worth, Guilty Crown at least got it right on it's finale episode.

7/10

As a side note, I wonder if the folks who say this should've been longer are being serious or not ...

[Team Rocket Elite]

An extra episode would have been nice so they had time for a proper fight between Gai and Shu after Shu gets Inori's sword. The initial clash between the two looked cool but there wasn't much more to the fight after that. It would also give more time to Ayase vs Daryl. Maybe they could even have Shu actually do something to beat Mana instead of Mana selfdestructing after Gai's defeat.