Which summon animal is the best?

[Chosen]

I would summon Lord of Nightmares, the creator of everything(If you have seen slayers :P ).

[Pillage]

My summon would be rats. Dirty and witty fighters who can eat your ears in your sleep.

[Raging Youma]

i would summon a cheetah, the fastest land animal in the world.

[Shadamehr]

Originally Posted by Lu Bu

Well I was assuming that we both agreed that if one can beat one in a 1 vs. 2, then one can certainly beat one on a 1 vs. 1 basis. So what you're saying is that even if Manda did beat them both at the same time, we wouldn't know if he could do the same if it was one at a time because it was not a 1 vs. 1. You are free to believe that.
You call it assumption - I call it logical deduction.

Spoiler:

Umm, we do both agree that. However, that's not what happened. What happened is that Manda got his butt kicked 2v1. From this we can conclude nothing. To conclude that Manda is stronger IS an assumption.

Note that you are making assumptions. You assume that everything is possible if not experienced directly. You assume on grounds that we don't know. That's called ignorance (don't let the negative sound of it bother you).
I may not know how a 1 vs. 1 would have turned out, but my statement is based on something, and not on nothing.

Spoiler:

I see an attack by Manda that got foiled before Gama had to defend it. From this, I assume nothing, I state that we DON'T KNOW what would have happened. You are making conclusions based on what you believe would have happened. Therefore your stance is based on assumptions. You have to understand the basic concept that if you are trying to make a conclusion, then you might be making assumptions, whereas if I am not trying to come to a conclusion (i.e. I don't have a stance) then my 'stance' cannot be based on assumptions. I am concluding nothing, so I need no assumptions.

Still you haven't answered my question. Can we say for sure that anything could have happened between Naruto and Kisame? Or that Kisame would have made it out on his own, if Itachi weren't there? Or even that Sasuke would have kicked the arse out on Itachi if it weren't for Jiraya interferring? I don't think that anything could have happened.

Naruto and Kisame: No, we can't. However, we believe Kisame is stronger than Naruto for reasons entirely unrelated to the toad-blocking-the-sword incident. If that's the only instance of us ever seeing or hearing about how powerful Kisame is, then we would not be able to conclude that Kisame is stronger than Naruto.

Kisame and Jiraiya: Again, we don't know if he could have made it out on his own. We do know, by his own admission, that he is not in the same league as Jiraiya, and from this we may believe that it is unlikely he could escape.

Sasuke and Itachi: We have other evidence, the arse-beating that Itachi laid down on Sasuke the whole time, and the thought BY SASUKE that he is still much weaker, etc. etc.

Spoiler:

Your analogies are not the same as the situation between Manda and Gama, since we DO NOT have other information that would indicate that Manda is stronger.

[cdkobasiuk]

Originally Posted by Bun-kun

I would summon a dragon, an asian one because they have more power than there european cousin

That was my thought too. Nothing is cooler than a dragon, but I bet there would be a lot of rules, stipulations and troubles with such a powerful summons.

cdk

[eLstar]

Use Spoiler Tags please. Unless some of you want the 3 day ban.

[hokagenaruto3]

I would summon Winged Dragon Of Ra. The Ultimate Egyptian God.
Ancient Egypt had the most powerfull animals

[kapaostudios]

damn yall forget bout the monkey king! the legendary monkey mang!!!!!!!!!!!! how could yall

[Lu Bu]

Spoiler:

Umm, we do both agree that. However, that's not what happened. What happened is that Manda got his butt kicked 2v1. From this we can conclude nothing. To conclude that Manda is stronger IS an assumption.

No. He lost, but contrary to what you wrote he wasn't owned, and it was only a 2v1 until Tsunade interferred. This is how I see it:

1) Manda nearly bit Gama, like he nearly did Katsuyu.
2) If Tsunade hadn't appeared Gama would likely have been done for.
Therefore Manda is stronger than Gama Bunta.

You are questioning 2, reasoning like this:

1) The only thing we see is that Tsunade took that attack.
2) There is a possibility that Gama could have defended himself.
Therefore if Tsunade hadn't appeared it's possible that Gama would have been done for.

I don't see that possibility.
All other things being equal I believe things are the way they seem to be. So how do things seem to be? Essentially it boils down to me being pessimistic on Gamas behalf and you optimistic.

If that's the only instance of us ever seeing or hearing about how powerful Kisame is, then we would not be able to conclude that Kisame is stronger than Naruto.

Kisame and Jiraiya: Again, we don't know if he could have made it out on his own. We do know, by his own admission, that he is not in the same league as Jiraiya, and from this we may believe that it is unlikely he could escape.

Sasuke and Itachi: We have other evidence, the arse-beating that Itachi laid down on Sasuke the whole time, and the thought BY SASUKE that he is still much weaker, etc. etc.

I'm not argumenting from what we knew before that incident but purely from if that was all we had seen.
Maybe the Sasuke analogy was a stretch. Yup, it is.

Anyway I'm tired of this discussion. Let's agree to disagree.

[Chosen]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Snake and Dragon are almost the same in asian mythologies

Snake is way diffrent from a Dragon.

- A snake is an reptile but a Dragon aint.

- Dragons got wings and can fly.
Reptiles can't.

- Dragons are warm-blooded.
Reptiles don't.

- Dragons is also known to be the superior race, the smartest one that have ever "existed".

And it is quite alot diffrent kinds of dragons with diffrent abilitys.

- Dragon of the Air.

- Dragons of the Wind , Storm, and Weather.

- Dragon of fire.

- Dragons of fire and volcanoes.

- Dragon of water.

- Dragons of the seas, lakes, rivers and ponds.

- Dragon of the earth.

- Dragons of the forest, mountains, and desert.

- Guardian dragons.

[Hyuuga Neji]

I voted other because I would like to summon a huge nine tailed fox that could kick anyones ass (Kyuubi)

[Chosen]

Originally Posted by Hyuuga Neji

I voted other because I would like to summon a huge nine tailed fox that could kick anyones ass (Kyuubi)

Lord of nightmare is the strongest creature! The one that created everything. It would kick some lowbee demon like Kyuubi. :P

[Shadamehr]

Sorry 'bout that Dranz, I'll edit in some spoiler tags.

Originally Posted by Lu Bu

Spoiler:

No. He lost, but contrary to what you wrote he wasn't owned, and it was only a 2v1 until Tsunade interferred. This is how I see it:

1) Manda nearly bit Gama, like he nearly did Katsuyu.
2) If Tsunade hadn't appeared Gama would likely have been done for.
Therefore Manda is stronger than Gama Bunta.

You are questioning 2, reasoning like this:

1) The only thing we see is that Tsunade took that attack.
2) There is a possibility that Gama could have defended himself.
Therefore if Tsunade hadn't appeared it's possible that Gama would have been done for.

I don't see that possibility.
All other things being equal I believe things are the way they seem to be. So how do things seem to be? Essentially it boils down to me being pessimistic on Gamas behalf and you optimistic.

I'm not argumenting from what we knew before that incident but purely from if that was all we had seen.
Maybe the Sasuke analogy was a stretch. Yup, it is.

Anyway I'm tired of this discussion. Let's agree to disagree.

Spoiler:

In terms of that 2v1 battle, he WAS owned. He did no damage, and got beaten into submission. It was clear there was no way he could have won the fight. That is an owning. You are saying he wasn't owned on the basis that he would have done better 1v1, but that doesn't preclude his getting owned in that particular fight which was a 2v1.

No, it doesn't boil down to optimism vs pessimism. There are three points on the scale:

pessimism - your viewpoint: gama would have been hit
optimism - nobody's viewpoint: gama would have gotten away
conservatism - my viewpoint: we don't know

Pessimism and optimism are both assumptions, conservatism is not. If we were to take you stance, which is that my point is optimism, and also an assumption, that would mean that by the very existence of this situation everyone is automatically making assumptions. I am not making assumptions, I am simply saying exactly that we should not make assumptions, and should not use this scene as evidence of anything, since we don't know what was going to happen.

*If* I were arguing that Gama would have gotten away for sure, and hence Manda would be able to do nothing against him in a fight, then I would be making assumptions. However, that is not my stance, my stance is that we do not know what would have happened. My position is not opposite yours on the scale, it is merely in the middle, at "We don't know." I'm not arguing that Manda for sure is not better than Gama, I'm simply saying we don't know.

Appearances in that fight that Gama would have been hit are not as strong as you make them out to be. Take another look at that panel, so Manda was behind him. So what? There have been dozens of instances attacks that looked much more certain, but did not land. This is the style of Kishimoto, attacks almost always look like they're going to land until they don't.

Anyway, you're right, if the discussion isn't interesting for you anymore, we can just agree to disagree.

[Kouji]

Too bad the badger (Shukaku) wasn't there . He was like the most comical summoned beast that Gaara did

[Lu Bu]

Anyway, you're right, if the discussion isn't interesting for you anymore, we can just agree to disagree.

I'm sure that you believe that you are right. For that I respect your opinion. But I do not agree.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Chosen

Snake is way diffrent from a Dragon.
[...]

No, the asian mythologies about dragons has nothing to see with the western mythologies.

The serpent and the dragon are serpentine beings, they're both Nagas.

[sarcasteak]

Originally Posted by Hunter

No, the asian mythologies about dragons has nothing to see with the western mythologies.

The serpent and the dragon are serpentine beings, they're both Nagas.

Thank you, Hunter. You know your stuff.

Originally Posted by Chosen

Lord of nightmare is the strongest creature! The one that created everything. It would kick some lowbee demon like Kyuubi. :P

Oh, now that's just playing mean.

[Chosen]

Originally Posted by Hunter

No, the asian mythologies about dragons has nothing to see with the western mythologies.

The serpent and the dragon are serpentine beings, they're both Nagas.

Who did mention the asian dragons(except you ofc :P)? The Dragons I am talking about is the western ones, from the western myths.
And when people say they want to summon dragons I think they mean the western ones. The one that is most used in stories, guarding tresures etc.


This is how the chineses view of how a dragon look like.

1.Head of a camel
2.Eyes of a demon
3.Ears of a cow
4.Horns are branched antlers of a stag
5.Neck of a snake
6.Belly of a clam
7.Soles of its feet are a tigers, while its...
8.Claws are that of an eagles
9.And 117 scales, that of a carp

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Snake and Dragon are almost the same in asian mythologies

Originally Posted by Chosen

Snake is way diffrent from a Dragon.

Originally Posted by Hunter

No, the asian mythologies about dragons has nothing to see with the western mythologies.

The serpent and the dragon are serpentine beings, they're both Nagas.

Originally Posted by Chosen

Who did mention the asian dragons(except you ofc :P)? The Dragons I am talking about is the western ones, from the western myths.

God...
Why do you even quote me if you don't read my post?

And anyway you didn't even talk about the western dragon myth, but about the dragon in video games, RPG and fantasy book of the 20th century...

[Chosen]

Originally Posted by Hunter

God...
Why do you even quote me if you don't read my post?

And anyway you didn't even talk about the western dragon myth, but about the dragon in video games, RPG and fantasy book of the 20th century...

Nope I did not. The facts I stated was from a project I had for a year ago. And it is for sure about the western Dragons. Or maybe you can proove me wrong ?