Brexit Vote

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I'd add one thing, Sarkozy signed an agreement with UK to keep the migrants on his country. If France didnt respect the agreement and let the non-EU migrants go to UK, Calais may have not become the mess, and one of the arguments for the french far-right, it is now.

This is one of the little privileges UK enjoyed.

So one of the perks of being in the EU is keeping undesirable non-EU migrants off the UK?

Originally Posted by Sheba

"Meanie Merkel want to flood Holy Albion with the Saracens"

FTFY, I guess, lol.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

You have to distinguish between EU and non-EU migrants (who are actually the huge majority of immigrants in the UK). As a member of the EU, the UK couldn't do anything about EU migrants.

As for non-EU migrants, yes, they could do what they wanted, and did. In fact, they had some favorable treaties to keep them off their shores.

So the Brexiteers' problem with immigration is with the EU migrants? After all, they can impose further restrictions on non-EU migrants without the EU holding it against them, right?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I'd add one thing, Sarkozy signed an agreement with UK to keep the migrants on his country. Which is why the entire "Meanie Merkel want to flood Holy Albion with Brown People" rhetoric that some Brexiteers kept spreading is all the more infuriating. If France didnt respect the agreement and let the non-EU migrants go to UK, Calais may have not become the mess, and one of the arguments for the french far-right, it is now.

This is one of the little privileges UK enjoyed.

We should back out of that agreement, and open a rubber boat factory near Calais.

Originally Posted by judasmartel

So one of the perks of being in the EU is keeping undesirable non-EU migrants off the UK?

The agreement Sheba spoke of technically wasn't an EU agreement.

So the Brexiteers' problem with immigration is with the EU migrants? After all, they can impose further restrictions on non-EU migrants without the EU holding it against them, right?

Well, they don't like the Poles, but mostly they're just suckers who didn't know what they were voting against.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by judasmartel

So one of the perks of being in the EU is keeping undesirable non-EU migrants off the UK?

Moar like UK joined and stayed in the EU as long as it got all the nice privileges specifically tailored for them. Why do you think De Gaulle opposed the entry of UK in EU? Meanwhile all the other members didn't even have any of that, if a german farmer is "bullied" by Brussels, a french or a spanish or a polish is bullied as hard. Germany is also the country that contributed the most, on the financial front.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Moar like UK joined and stayed in the EU as long as it got all the nice privileges specifically tailored for them. Why do you think De Gaulle opposed the entry of UK in EU? Meanwhile all the other members didn't even have any of that, if a german farmer is "bullied" by Brussels, a french or a spanish or a polish is bullied as hard. Germany is also the country that contributed the most, on the financial front.

The reason the UK joined was because of their economic struggles after World War II and the break-up of the Empire. They (correctly) anticipated that joining the bloc could jumpstart their economy again, which is why one of the main drivers of the completion of the single market, that Brexiteers loathe with passion, in the 1980s was actually the UK under Margaret Thatcher, to fully open Continental markets to British exporters. But now that the time of the UK being the sick man of Europe (in terms of the economy) is over, they - especially the Tories who in their mindset are still somewhere in the first half of the 20th century and never admitted to the role that EU-participation played in the UK's economic recovery in the first place - have forgotten all that.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by DracoS

But what kind of membership would we have if we stayed? It pretty clear that what we want and were the EU is going is badly out of line as it is.. and failing to leave now will add fuel to EU hate like crazy.

What is there to hate about the EU? From where I am standing, Britain is throwing a tantrum wanting everything and offer nothing. EU is simply taking care of its own members as they should be. What exactly did the EU do that deserve hate at all?

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

What is there to hate about the EU? From where I am standing, Britain is throwing a tantrum wanting everything and offer nothing. EU is simply taking care of its own members as they should be. What exactly did the EU do that deserve hate at all?

It's pretty simple. Brexiteers assured the leave-backing public that the negotiations would be easy, the EU will either cave or break formation in the negotiations, allowing the UK to pick the cherries. Since that hasn't happened, the Brexiteers need a party to shift the blame to, so of course it's the unreasonable and evil EU...

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by Kakurin

The reason the UK joined was because of their economic struggles after World War II and the break-up of the Empire. They (correctly) anticipated that joining the bloc could jumpstart their economy again, which is why one of the main drivers of the completion of the single market, that Brexiteers loathe with passion, in the 1980s was actually the UK under Margaret Thatcher, to fully open Continental markets to British exporters. But now that the time of the UK being the sick man of Europe (in terms of the economy) is over, they - especially the Tories who in their mindset are still somewhere in the first half of the 20th century and never admitted to the role that EU-participation played in the UK's economic recovery in the first place - have forgotten all that.

Is there a place to read up on the history of the UK-EU relationship that you could recommend? I don't need a 600 page essay that goes into every detail but getting a better understanding would be interesting to me.

[Botan_TM]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Well, they don't like the Poles, but mostly they're just suckers who didn't know what they were voting against.

They funny thing is, that UK could have done something about Polish immigration in the past. After expansion in 2004 old countries had right to put restrictions on immigration from new members up to 7 years. Most countries decided to make some, but then UK on purpose decided to put none.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

What is there to hate about the EU? From where I am standing, Britain is throwing a tantrum wanting everything and offer nothing. EU is simply taking care of its own members as they should be. What exactly did the EU do that deserve hate at all?

https://twitter.com/sarfeld/status/1...143680?lang=en

[James Rye]

3 sundays left. Man, even I didn't thought the UK would not sign a deal till now. Like how crazy do you got to be to still run eyes wide open towards the cliff ignoring all brakes? If I were a MP who worries about the Union's future I wouldn't be able to get much sleep lately, that's for sure.

[MrTerrorist]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/J1Yv24cM2os

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YouTube

https://youtu.be/agZ0xISi40E

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Watching CGP Grey's videos has made me frustrated on the Brexit negotiation thing.
Please, just cancel Brexit. I don't care it might ruined your name and political career.
I don't care if it might piss off pro-Brexit politicians and business group and a certain leader who has no idea how economics works.
I don't care you might be forever be a laughing stock for failing to achieve any of your goals.

Just give up and call it quits. This whole thing has been nothing but trouble, ruined the economy and trust with Europe, and caused a lot of political infighting between the Realists who realize Brexit is impossible and the naive and foolish who still think they can still get all of the good stuff without the bad baggage.

Just cancel Brexit.

[Key Board]

Gee
it's almost as if no one really had a plan, never expected Brexit to pass, and only proposed Brexit to earn nationalist brownie points

//

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Gee
it's almost as if no one really had a plan, never expected Brexit to pass, and only proposed Brexit to earn nationalist brownie points

//

You know it's bad when the British themselves actually have to Google "Brexit" AFTER they have cast the vote to leave EU just to get a hint of what they are going into. GDI populism, indeed.

[James Rye]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ernment-claims

Not sure you can speak of binding changes when it basically just says you gonna work on alternatives till 2020. After all, there are no real alternatives, not with the red lines. So 2020 there will still be no changes whatsoever.

I doubt that gonna be enough to get May's deal over the line not without enough Labour's support.

[mangamuscle]

Now that a no deal brexit seems to be inevitable, can some one tell me what is going to happen to all the money the UK owes the EU?

[monir]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

Now that a no deal brexit seems to be inevitable, can some one tell me what is going to happen to all the money the UK owes the EU?

Why of course the sliding dogeza:

Images

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[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Dextro

Brexit is sounding like a badly written anime at this time. Looks like we're 10 episodes into the 13 episode season and new plot points are still being thrown out without any being resolved. And then the writers rush the ending and end up turning the show into a catastrophe.

Given the manner that events have unfolded today, this feels like the most apt description of the past 2 and a half years.

Except rather than point and laugh at the show for being a train wreck, you have this sense of dread over where things are heading.

[Ithekro]

If the European Union wanted to resort to the old ways...they would seize assets to compensate the British debt. If it was like in the 18th and 19th centuries...that could mean invading British territory and taking enough out of the place to pay the debt (various European countries use tried to do this in the New World until the Americans put a (mostly ineffective) foot down with the Monroe Doctrine. Claiming all the Western Hemisphere as under the United States influence, and that the Europeans would keep their hands to themselves (rather than stepping into places like Haiti and stealing what was owned to repay those counties debts).


The United Kingdom won't stand for that for sure.

[Anh_Minh]

Pretty sure we won't try straight up invasion.

[SeijiSensei]

Here is the kind of problem that a no-deal Brexit will bring. I suspect it's just one example of how an economic system built on rules and practices developed over decades could be destroyed by a single stupid referendum.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...no-deal-brexit