2009-01-23, 16:27 | Link #782 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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they are the product of people in the IDF sitting down and saying "this is what hamas is doing, how do we deal with it" hamas plants mines and IED along the streets israel responds by using bulldozers to clear the way hamas sets up ambushes inside houses israel responds by knocking down houses instead of sending troops in hamas hides weapon stashs in homes israel responds by bombing those homes (after warning the people to GTFO) notice that if you go around and try thinking it as hamas are trying to think "this is how israel works, how do we deal with this" you end up showing them for the monsters they are @Vexx if you believed that the hamas mearly represents the views of the palestinian people as a whole and acts in their name would you still have a problem with us fighting them ? the votes seem to impley that to be the case is there something wrong with two peoples who have a conflict going to war ? the PR battle is lost to begin with we dont try and wage it on the public stage, but on the goverment stage why do you think the leaders of half of europe were in olmarts home for a dinner party 24 hours after the cease-fire why do you think eygpt agrees to help stop smuggling we dont aim at the public (we try, but the world by default supports the poor basterds) you know perfectly well that hamas are evil (not the palestinians, hamas specificlly) not "well intentionad extremsts" or "knight templar" evil full on dog-raping-baby-eating-evil you know that they booby trap homes, and schools, and in one very odd case- a petting zoo (IDF forces actually took care of the animals to keep them from starving to death) they plant mines and IED's in the street and on roads inside the city and refugee camps they intentioanlly dont wear uniforms, thus making it hard to tell who is a civilian and who isnt, putting civilains at risk they force their way into people's homes and fire from their rooftops hoping to increase the death toll (read: murder the family with israeli tank shells) they drag children with them in the street hoping that their ENEMY would avoid hurting them to spare the kids (can you imagne it working the other way around) they convince teenagers (who are by nature easy to convince) to strap explosives to themselves and go kill other women and children with legends of heaven they teach children that jews are apes and pigs and that god hates them and wants them to die in fact they teach children that the best they can asspire to become on this earth as a martyr they shoot anyone who speaks out against them in the back of the knees to criple them for life (and if someone actualy ACTS against them they kill them out right) they loot UN aid trucks that are sent with food and medicene they use crowded places where people gather as combat positions becosue it would make the ENEMY less likely to hit them there they intentioanlly violate international law and use ambulances to transport troops and weapons (thus putting all ambulances at risk of being hit) and thats the things they do to THEIR OWN PEOPLE thats not even counting what they do to US name an international war crime and they have commited it you know all those things but you nevertheless complain about israeli action as if we are on the same moral ground the best accusation that you can level at israel and the IDF is that you dont think they try HARD ENOUGH to prevent civilian deaths on the ENEMY side dont you think that there is something slightly odd with that one ?
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Last edited by bladeofdarkness; 2009-01-23 at 17:16. |
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2009-01-23, 16:37 | Link #783 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The fact is this:
The rules of war are a joke. Especially because Hamas was elected with an overwhelming majority. You receive consequences as the result of who you vote for. Rather than suicide-bombing Israel, those Palestinians can suicide-bomb Hamas for making life even worse than when Fatah was in power. And as for the ideologies that every life is precious, how about this: No nation should ever be responsible in any way, shape, or form for providing another nation with anything. If Gazans hate Israel so much, Israel should just cut off all food, water, and electricity it provides, and tell Hamas to provide that for their own people and see how far things go. |
2009-01-23, 17:09 | Link #787 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
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http://current.com/items/89744088/is...f_children.htm I assure you that no one, not even Hamas can do something like this. Yes, they have their own ways of fighting, which includes recruiting youth, but they'll never execute innocent civilians infront of their children. You really have no clue on the true intentions of your gov. Either that, or you're just trying to clean up their image. Israeli government loves genocide. Especially when it comes to Palestinians. They are just insects. What did Sharon do when he was just warming up? Last thing I recall, he was responsible for one of the most brutal and horrific genocides in this age. Its very ironic no one can bring him to court. |
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2009-01-23, 17:24 | Link #788 | |||
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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More seriously though, Israel can't simply react to Hamas. They need to make Hamas react to them, both militarily and politically. You've said yourself that Hamas is using human shields so get Israel to kill civilians. Rather than play into this and launching a massive attack, a more restrained approach would better serve Israeli interests. By launching such attacks, Israel is most certainly playing into Hamas' hands. While riskier to Israeli forces, a more limited engagement is in Israel's interests as it avoids accusations of overreacting. Though given the nature of Israel's ground Quote:
To demongod and mystery777, I should point out that the Palestinians are also a semetic people. Quote:
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2009-01-23, 17:24 | Link #789 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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@Kamui4356
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dont forget that getting israel to look bad on TV is the secondery goal killing IDF soldeirs is the primery goal for the simple reason that israel as a nation cant stand to see IDF soldiers die at all it comes from the nature of the conscription system as far as the israeli public is concerned and IDF soldier is everyones child or brother-becouse everyones child or brother is an IDF soldier (my sister is) that means that we arent willing to tolerate the deaths of soldiers if we know that it could have been avoided
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2009-01-23, 17:40 | Link #790 | |
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2009-01-23, 17:46 | Link #791 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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8 years waiting
pulling all settelments and forces out of gaza 3 years ago those would be forms of restraint and im pretty sure that time would show that there was plenty of restraint in the IDF's actions in the strip this time as well and about what Mystery777 posted i would remind you that these reports are from palestinian sources in the one place in gaza where the heaviest fighting took place (zaitun) that making up false claims of IDF war crimes is a palestinian custom and that Mystery777 has already posted things that suggest that the zionsit conspiracy behind WWI WWII and even 9/11 so i wouldnt put too much into it
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2009-01-23, 17:53 | Link #792 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Acts or statements are genuinely anti-Semitic when they are aimed against the Semitic race in general, or against members of that race BECAUSE they belong to that race. Nowadays, it seems like everything you say against the Jewish people is antisemetic. Are they above being criticized for anything? I have no problem with Jewish people .. have had many jewish friends ... but I don't like Israel's gov stand on things. Am I anti-semetic? Then it means that many jewish are also anti-semitic !? Either way, Big deal! |
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2009-01-23, 17:57 | Link #793 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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even if we took the anti-Semitic thing out of the equetion
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means you have no clue about what your talking about re-read my post you know that they booby trap homes, and schools, and in one very odd case- a petting zoo (IDF forces actually took care of the animals to keep them from starving to death) they plant mines and IED's in the street and on roads inside the city and refugee camps they intentioanlly dont wear uniforms, thus making it hard to tell who is a civilian and who isnt, putting civilains at risk they force their way into people's homes and fire from their rooftops hoping to increase the death toll (read: murder the family with israeli tank shells) they drag children with them in the street hoping that their ENEMY would avoid hurting them to spare the kids (can you imagne it working the other way around) they convince teenagers (who are by nature easy to convince) to strap explosives to themselves and go kill other women and children with legends of heaven they teach children that jews are apes and pigs and that god hates them and wants them to die in fact they teach children that the best they can asspire to become on this earth as a martyr they shoot anyone who speaks out against them in the back of the knees to criple them for life (and if someone actualy ACTS against them they kill them out right) they loot UN aid trucks that are sent with food and medicene they use crowded places where people gather as combat positions becosue it would make the ENEMY less likely to hit them there they intentioanlly violate international law and use ambulances to transport troops and weapons (thus putting all ambulances at risk of being hit) and you say " they have their own ways of fighting, which includes recruiting youth" like thats the extent of it
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2009-01-23, 18:04 | Link #794 | |||
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Israel doesn't want to commit ground troops as is needed to the action to "really win" because the people of Israel would say "wtf? Is this really that important?" Right now the war is mostly "sterile" to the Israeli public. The US government used a similar tactic by "sanitizing" the Iraq nonsense. Actual goals by each administration were either far different than the publicly stated flagwaving or we have to consider their competency. There's a political calculation there. Israel says it "achieved its goals" when announcing the ceasefire.... what goals were achieved? What specific milestones? It looks like the specific goal was to permit Hamas to consolidate, eliminate dissent, and leave the civilians with even less option. That's certainly what was achieved. You just called the Palestinian civilians the enemy again.... their hearts and minds are the leverage chips to isolating Hamas. Are you trying to shut down a terrorist group or "beat" a country?
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2009-01-23, 18:16 | Link #795 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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the problem with the "stated objectives" is that there was none
the words used were "changing the reality in the area" as ifthat explains actual goals i admit that its odd the general idea is that if hamas knows that the price for attacking israel is that israel might attack back (with much more power) then it would be less likely to attack to begin with is that the BEST course of action maybe not (read: probably not) but if it means that the people in southern israel can get to live their lives in peace for a few years thats good enough as a start this isnt (nor wasnt ever claimed to be) a permenet solution to the problem this is at best a way to bring about a calm period of time its only talks that could solve the probelm but such talks cant take place while under rocket fire and while the palestinian people arent viewed as "the enemy" they are the enemy's people and if the enemy is willing to put them to such risks, the blame is theirs we try to avoid civilian deaths as much as possible but the truth of the matter is that if hamas really wanted to, they can just start shooting their own people and say that israeli's did it and the world would believe it (until proven otherwise, by which time its too late since no one cares) like i said the PR battle is lost before it begins whats importent is that WE hold ourselves up to the moral standards that WE set nothing else matters becouse a lie can run around the world before the truth can get its boots on
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2009-01-23, 18:30 | Link #796 |
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 43
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Palestinians have the bad luck to live in a place, that is mainly used by 3 nations (Iran, Sysria and Israel) as their battle field of own interests. On this battlefield Iran and Syria are using Hamas to fight a proxy war against Israel. And Israel is defending itself on palestinian ground.
If I understand the situation down there correctly... then as long as Israel, Syria and Iran do not settle their disputes, there will never be peace there.
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2009-01-23, 18:41 | Link #797 | |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The same way I'm rabidly anti-Islamic while having Muslim friends from Saudi Arabia itself. I don't judge people by their taking the positive from the propaganda of a pedophile mass murderer, but if they so wish to be judged by their strict adherence to said propaganda and nothing else, I'll be happy to oblige them. As for criticizing Israel: yes, it is above criticism. At least on the magnitude it gets. Tell me: where are the rallies and the protests every time there's an attack on Israel? Where are the rallies to stop the genocide in Darfur, the oppression of the Nepalese by the Chinese, and I can go on and on. Those "protests" are poorly masked antisemitism. The end. And as for "those poor, suffering, innocent Palestinians": they elected Hamas. Let them live with the consequences. And as for human life being sacred/precious/priceless: it isn't. Nobody's is. Because there's something called the "costs of living". Pay them or mother nature will deal with you in short order. |
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2009-01-23, 18:50 | Link #798 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
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A major goal is to reduce the rocket attacks. Just as Israel has been extraordinarily successful in stopping suicide bombing. I wonder how many Palestinian lives Israel has saved by being so good at stopping suicide bombing. If Israel didn't have a strong defense against it, Hamas would be sending waves of children with bombs strapped on. Each one that didn't attempt it because it is too hard, is a life saved. That is part of why acting responsibly and taking attacks seriously is best for all involved. It is dehumanizing to both sides to treat deadly attacks like jokes, or complain that not enough people have been killed yet. |
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2009-01-23, 19:09 | Link #800 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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syria is just following iran at this stage, it has no other allies and isnt strong enough to be credible threat by itself if it was forced to stand alone against israel it would be more likely to just cave in and sign a peace treaty already but as long as its allied with iran it cant act any other way before the revolution in iran (the one that turned it into a muslim theocracy) israeli-iranian relations were very good actually after the revolution iran adopted a fundamentalistic ideaoligy that calls for islam to take over the world iran is effectively trying to do with islamic fandamentalisem, what the soviets were trying to do with communisem and they want to start with rallying the arab world around them and come out as the superpower of the middle east their attmpets to rally support for this goal in the arab world (remember, iran isnt an arab country) is using a cause that the arab world has been obsessive about for years now the palestinian matter iran wants to become the leader of the arab world in the same way that eygpt tried to do it in the 60"s by destroying israel (the one country in the area that EVERYONE hates) they want to show that they "support" the palestinianas struggle for independece and do so by funding, arming and training hamas hizballa and just about any other bunch of loonies who are willing to follow their idealigy the problem is that rather then HELPING the palestinian struggle, all they in effect doing is PROLONGING it if iran was made to change its ways, it would mean that syria also stops supporting the radicals and it means an end to the conflict in truth there is also a different way if syria could be convinced to switch sides it cuts off the main route that iran uses to supply their proxies in the area and leaves them alone in the "battle" but for that to happen syria must be given complete and undesputed support from europe and the US against any iraninan retaliation and thats not likely to happen
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