Character Discussion - Lelouch

[Rising Dragon]

Guess they'll just have to switch to oil then, won't they?

Sakuradite seemed to cause more problems for Japan than anything else, with the way they monopolized it.

[bladeofdarkness]

again
what happens when the most importent resource on earth becomes very rare ?
i'll give you a hint... it does not involve switching to oil
think of WHY japan tried to monopolize it
and then think of what the rest of the countries who have exclusive supply of sakuradite would do
think dune
he who controls the sakuradite, controls the CG-verse

[Rising Dragon]

And yet that's not happening, is it? Kallen said as much herself: the world is turning to repairing itself, instead of another war over resources. They lucked out this time.

[bladeofdarkness]

kallen says it two months after lelouch died
what happens two YEARS later ?

you see, the whole "shiny happy people" epilouge does not actually address the problems that fridge logic would dictate would result from it in order to not spoil the "happy ending"
but even THEN kallen points out that there are other problems remaining
another few years, and there would be another war over resources, simply because its what humans DO
eventually, someone would look around and say "better grab what i can for myself, before others do it instead of me"

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Kuroshinobu

You're pretty set on disliking his actions aren't you haha?

Let's not forget that he also wanted everyone to forget Euphemia the "Massacre Princess." It was his fault that she had gone on a rampage, he knew that even if it was an accident. He even told Suzaku that after Zero Requiem had gone through with the mass killing, no one will remember the incident with Euphemia, and she wouldn't have been remembered as the princess who ruthlessly murdered Japanese people.

That's kind of like how people only know about the atrocities commited by the Nazis and Imperial Japan, because they where so horrible. Commiting genocide because it overshadows an earlier atrocity is not the correct answer. Genocide is never the correct answer for anything.

[Kuroshinobu]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

That's kind of like how people only know about the atrocities commited by the Nazis and Imperial Japan, because they where so horrible. Commiting genocide because it overshadows an earlier atrocity is not the correct answer. Genocide is never the correct answer for anything.

I never stated it was the right thing to do, I merely just gave one of the reasons why he did so.

[ncrushx]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

That's kind of like how people only know about the atrocities commited by the Nazis and Imperial Japan, because they where so horrible. Commiting genocide because it overshadows an earlier atrocity is not the correct answer. Genocide is never the correct answer for anything.

True, but are you correct over the entire sake of the omniuniverse? The answer to that question is the reason to that question.

I think not. Lelouch made the best move; suggesting you can't think of a better idea.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

Lelouch destroyed 70% of the worlds fuel supply
what usually happens when the most importent natural resource on earth gets a whole lot rarer ?

This is an overexaggeration. He detonated a volcano by igniting the sakuradite in it. To burn off the entire supply, he would have to vaporize all of Japan. Unless sakuradite is actually much more finite than we are led to believe, there's no way a single mountain holds the entire supply of Japan.

[bladeofdarkness]

sakuradite is at its most explosive when refined to be used for energy fillers (the way refined fuel is more flammable then normal oil)
the explosion in mount fuji was of the sakuradite mines (as in, unrefined), so the explosion would not be enough to vaporize japan

and its stated that mount fuji is the source (stage 12), and is the reason why britannia invaded

Originally Posted by ncrushx

True, but are you correct over the entire sake of the omniuniverse? The answer to that question is the reason to that question.

I think not. Lelouch made the best move; suggesting you can't think of a better idea.

i can suggest a BETTER one with ease

step one - sign a peace treaty with the UFN
step two - deal with shnizel WITHOUT having to fight him AND the black knights at the same time
step three - profit (world peace)

its CANON FACT that Lelouch didnt choose zero-requiem because he felt it was the BEST move
he chose it because its the path HE wanted for himself, and refused to accept ANY OTHER OPTION
whether or not those other option were better or not is as debatable as it is irrelevant
even if they were, lelouch would not have chosen them, because his ego wouldnt let him

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

and its stated that mount fuji is the source (stage 12), and is the reason why britannia invaded

Main source, not only, or sakuradite would be a lot less prevalent than the show treats it. At worst, the supply would be hampered, not outright obliterated. You're jumping to the worst case scenario for no valid reason.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Main source, not only, or sakuradite would be a lot less prevalent than the show treats it. At worst, the supply would be hampered, not outright obliterated. You're jumping to the worst case scenario for no valid reason.

if by hampered you mean "unaccessible because its in the middle of a newly-activated volcano"
then yes, i suppose i WOULD call that hampered
quite a bit hampered actually

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

if by hampered you mean "unaccessible because its in the middle of a newly-activated volcano"
then yes, i suppose i WOULD call that hampered
quite a bit hampered actually

Volcanoes do not erupt for two months straight. The eruption would cease, the lava would harden, and whatever they did to build a mine inside a volcano could simply be done again. It would hamper mining efforts, but the effect on the world economy in the short term would be increased prices, not crippling at any means, due to a temporary shortage. It would recover.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by ncrushx

True, but are you correct over the entire sake of the omniuniverse? The answer to that question is the reason to that question.

I think not. Lelouch made the best move; suggesting you can't think of a better idea.

Make peace with Schneizel and the UFN., and reform Britannia through that means. America forgave Japan, Europe forgave Germany why the hell can the world not forgive a reformed Britannia.

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Make peace with Schneizel and the UFN., and reform Britannia through that means. America forgave Japan, Europe forgave Germany why the hell can the world not forgive a reformed Britannia.

How do you make peace with Schneizel when he has his own world take over agenda to follow? And how do you stop the masses of nobles in Britannia from continuing to rebel against Lelouch? He was already having that problem pre-UFN takeover.

EDIT: Additionally, we remember that Lelouch left Schneizel geassed in the world to always obey Zero. It would definitely seem that Schneizel would be likely to try something if he were to ever get out of his geass. Heck, I could see him as the initial antagonist if they continued the story later on down the road. So I would think that even after beating Schneizel, for Lelouch to have to put this restraint on him, I think that he possibly would have tried something immediately after the death of Lelouch Vi Britannia.

[GundamFan0083]

@Blade and morbosfist;

Excellent debate you two, I'm enjoying reading it very much.

If I may I would like to add a tidbit here about volcanic activitiy.
Volcanoes can erupt for a very long time (decades in some cases).

Mount St. Helens has been erupting since 2004 and Mount Kilauea (in Hawaii) is generally regarded as the world's most active volcano. It has been in a near-continuous eruption since 1983.

[Revolutionist]

He could've at least tried to reason with Schneizel via that royal private channel they had. Schneizel didn't come across as some unreasonable guy. I mean, he even listened to Ougi's retarded ass demands. If Lelouch tried to talk to him and Schneizel laughed in his face then I think we wouldn't have an argument, but Lelouch didn't even attempt so we have to assume that there were other, better options left unexplored.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by eaglei3

How do you make peace with Schneizel when he has his own world take over agenda to follow? And how do you stop the masses of nobles in Britannia from continuing to rebel against Lelouch? He was already having that problem pre-UFN takeover.

EDIT: Additionally, we remember that Lelouch left Schneizel geassed in the world to always obey Zero. It would definitely seem that Schneizel would be likely to try something if he were to ever get out of his geass. Heck, I could see him as the initial antagonist if they continued the story later on down the road. So I would think that even after beating Schneizel, for Lelouch to have to put this restraint on him, I think that he possibly would have tried something immediately after the death of Lelouch Vi Britannia.

You talk to Schneizel, if the plot only works because every side has a lunatic on their side, that's abysmal writing.

You also get rid of the nobles as part of the reform.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

You talk to Schneizel, if the plot only works because every side has a lunatic on their side, that's abysmal writing.

You also get rid of the nobles as part of the reform.

I laughed my ass off with that comment, it reminded me of a certain series where that is exactly what happens.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

He could've at least tried to reason with Schneizel via that royal private channel they had. Schneizel didn't come across as some unreasonable guy. I mean, he even listened to Ougi's retarded ass demands. If Lelouch tried to talk to him and Schneizel laughed in his face then I think we wouldn't have an argument, but Lelouch didn't even attempt so we have to assume that there were other, better options left unexplored.

Schneizel is only reasonable when he has the upper hand. He didn't even honor the agreement with the Black Knights (not that he was obligated to, of course, but still). Even with a flying death fortress, he had to beat Lelouch first. He wouldn't have negotiated to any meaningful extent, and you know he would have nuked the world capitals just to prove a point.

[ncrushx]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

sakuradite is at its most explosive when refined to be used for energy fillers (the way refined fuel is more flammable then normal oil)
the explosion in mount fuji was of the sakuradite mines (as in, unrefined), so the explosion would not be enough to vaporize japan

and its stated that mount fuji is the source (stage 12), and is the reason why britannia invaded



i can suggest a BETTER one with ease

step one - sign a peace treaty with the UFN
step two - deal with shnizel WITHOUT having to fight him AND the black knights at the same time
step three - profit (world peace)

its CANON FACT that Lelouch didnt choose zero-requiem because he felt it was the BEST move
he chose it because its the path HE wanted for himself, and refused to accept ANY OTHER OPTION
whether or not those other option were better or not is as debatable as it is irrelevant
even if they were, lelouch would not have chosen them, because his ego wouldnt let him

I meant how he wanted his goals to be. I don't get how you understood that. Even, if he did do that; it would provide no point. Would the world become better or not? All that effort would go down the drain. Lelouch knows what a Britannian is like, just don't deny that, whether its Schneizel or Cornelia, or the emperor.

Seriously, I answered this already. You're making this harder than it is.

We are back to the same answer I gave you. I don't think that would fix the mayhem that occured in R1.

Lelouch cannot deal with Schneizel because he didn't know. He is obviously outnumbered, his luck would be worse as that counts as evidence enough for Black Knights to be so idiotic to fall for had Schneizel died right then and there during the betrayal to Zero. By that time, Schneizel was on Avalon/Damocles; with only a primary defensive 9th Gen. Knightmare Frame. No way, Lelouch can get in, or Suzaku and probably without a counter to Freya at that time.

Schneizel never goes to the front lines if you didn't know, meaning Lelouch will always have to make the first move.

Britannia invading Japan:

Had something to do with Genbu or Kirehara after they wanted that (yes that was the reason), so all 3 steps don't even begin to work.

His ego is right, though; but your ego makes me want to strangle you.