Romance in Macross (Take 2)

[raile]

Originally Posted by Westlo

I do wish some of the Ranka fans who wrote essays would realize that Alto's tsundere when they discuss him and Sheryl....

Tell me about it. Usually they'd go and say Alto never really cared for her because he's being an angry jerk with her at most times.

I actually find Alto's colorful outbursts a sign at how comfortable he is around Sheryl. He's just being himself. You don't really get that with his interactions with Ranka, Nanase or Klan.

[cerrian]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Actually, I remember it that way, as well. If not for Michael's comments, he would have probably stayed by Sheryl.

As for the discussion at hand, I'd have to side with Magnus and guess Alto started to show signs of affection towards Sheryl at this point. No clue about Ranka, as I seriously can't see him caring for her out of love and not the deeply ingrained sense of responsibility towards her well-being.

Slightly going off topic but...I was under the impression that Alto's first signs of affection for Sheryl was episode 6 when he returns the earring. At that point in time all SMS personnel had been effectively drafted into Frontier's military and they were pretty much on standby as the recon teams were scouting for Galaxy's location, let's not forget that they are suppose to be on the eve of a major rescue operation. For Alto to essentially go AWOL, all for the sake of returning Sheryl's earring, I'd say that she was already on his radar at this point.

Ep 12 scene where Michael convinces Alto that he should escort Ranka back to Frontier should be the first time we're shown the conflict Alto faces having to choose between both girls.

[BetoJR]

In my view, the whole "giving back the earring" was Alto still inside his "playing a part" shtick - that of the cavalier air jockey, or something to that effect. Real affection came later, IMHO.
But, make no mistake, the interest was there already, at the point you mention, cerrian.

[magnuskn]

As I said, I think we should divide the relationships in three stages:

a.) Interest - When the character notices the other character as someone interesting and attractive, and wants to spend more time with them.

b.) Feelings - In addition to feeling attracted, the character develops a feeling of kinship with the other character and actively tries to get the two of them to spend time together. May be derailed slightly due to tsun-tsun behaviour.

c.) Love - The turning point where the character admits to himself his feelings or at least, if too tsundere to admit them, develops the level of affection which correlates to love.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

As I said, I think we should divide the relationships in three stages:

a.) Interest - When the character notices the other character as someone interesting and attractive, and wants to spend more time with them.

b.) Feelings - In addition to feeling attracted, the character develops a feeling of kinship with the other character and actively tries to get the two of them to spend time together. May be derailed slightly due to tsun-tsun behaviour.

c.) Love - The turning point where the character admits to himself his feelings or at least, if too tsundere to admit them, develops the level of affection which correlates to love.

to a.) Interest:
Ranka: Episode 1. She likes wet boys who look like a girl. At least the episode where Alto motivated her to follow realize her dreams.

Sheryl: I say since the scene with the cell phone in the locker. Just kidding. It was the episode before their visit in folmo.

to b.) Feelings:
Ranka: My guess with the movie creation of Macross Zero where she plays the role of Mao Nome

Sheryl: Diamond Crevasse says all to me.

to c.) Love: both episode 14, What 'bout my star duet.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by raile

Tell me about it. Usually they'd go and say Alto never really cared for her because he's being an angry jerk with her at most times.

I actually find Alto's colorful outbursts a sign at how comfortable he is around Sheryl. He's just being himself. You don't really get that with his interactions with Ranka, Nanase or Klan.

Pretty much the whole point. When you reveal a part of yourself that no one else knows, only to one person, go and figure from there what is that supposed to mean. //especially when it does have to do with the cliche "being angry at the girl i like cause well.. it is cliche" lulz

@magnuskn, nice divine-steps-analysis. |DD;

[gentlewater]

Originally Posted by raile

Tell me about it. Usually they'd go and say Alto never really cared for her because he's being an angry jerk with her at most times.

I actually find Alto's colorful outbursts a sign at how comfortable he is around Sheryl. He's just being himself. You don't really get that with his interactions with Ranka, Nanase or Klan.

Actually, alto showed that kind of attitude to ranka in the earlier episode when he asked ranka to let go of her hand he was kind of irritated that time but his expression changed when he saw ranka’s terrified face. Ever since then he treated her with care.


anyway, about the stages

this is my understanding alto took interest towards ranka in the first episode. He was searching for the weird girl and that was ranka.

Ranka took interest towards alto when he saved her or maybe the moment they first met.

Alto showed interest towards Sheryl when he saw the two hot buns I mean when he saw Sheryl boobs up close. Who will ever forget that scene. That was soo…

Sheryl was interested in alto when she kissed him after the date.

Feelings

Ranka to Alto… Alto-kun I love you… Sayonara

Alto to ranka… I’ve got so many scenes in my mind that made me think alto had some feelings for ranka but the last episode was literal interpretations of his feelings.

The phrase was.. That time I heard your voice your heart was screaming …….then he said just let my feelings lead the way and I will fly…

Sheryl to Alto for some reason I can’t explain it by words coz all the kisses expressed it all. I

Alto to Sheryl… yeah I will stay by your side.


Love????

We’ll wait for the movie to come…

[BetoJR]

I have the slight feeling that the movie won't be providing any answers on that front...

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by gentlewater

The phrase was.. That time I heard your voice your heart was screaming …….then he said just let my feelings lead the way and I will fly…

Funnily, as soon as he says "I heard the cries of your heart", it cuts to Ranka going "SAVE ME!". Again. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing the first time I saw that.

Yes, estimated viewers, here we can hear the mating cry of the green furred canine Ranka. Will she succeed in luring a male into her lair? Stay tuned!

As for the second part, my take is that those words are not for Ranka but for himself, that he is going to follow his dream by not thinking about things, but rather just do them. Which has no connotation to Ranka.

But that´s just me and my Sheryl-goggles.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Funnily, as soon as he says "I heard the cries of your heart", it cuts to Ranka going "SAVE ME!". Again. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing the first time I saw that.

Yes, estimated viewers, here we can hear the mating cry of the green furred canine Ranka. Will she succeed in luring a male into her lair? Stay tuned!

As for the second part, my take is that those words are not for Ranka but for himself, that he is going to follow his dream by not thinking about things, but rather just do them. Which has no connotation to Ranka.

But that´s just me and my Sheryl-goggles.

Depending on what sub you are referring now she is saying "help me".

The whole scene seems to be taken back to episode 10, the scene where Ranka had a phone call with Alto. Because the next sentences (from his kabuki) where the same words which his dad said to Alto. But in a whole said, I think it is a scenerey where all the time Ranka asks for help everytime she got stuck where she is unable to decide which way to go.

Btw. BetoJR, haremending! definetely

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

Depending on what sub you are referring now she is saying "help me".

The whole scene seems to be taken back to episode 10, the scene where Ranka had a phone call with Alto. Because the next sentences (from his kabuki) where the same words which his dad said to Alto. But in a whole said, I think it is a scenerey where all the time Ranka asks for help everytime she got stuck where she is unable to decide which way to go.

Btw. BetoJR, haremending! definetely

"Save me!" or "Help me!" doesn´t make much difference. Always the same, our Wanko.

[zalem]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

I have the slight feeling that the movie won't be providing any answers on that front...

Me too. I think it will be left unresolved. And part of me thinks if it is resolved it'll go in Ranka's favor. At least if Kawamori has complete control of the ending. I don't know, I just have the distinct feeling he was very disappointed with where her character went in the end. Of course, maybe he'll just improve her character and not make her win the LT. But part of me still has the feeling he wants the Minmei/Mao of the series to win for once. But I just don't know if he has the guts to do it, therefore he will probably leave it unresolved. Too many people want AruSheryl. I mean, even a lot of the cast seems to favor it. He probably doesn't want to face their rage.

*runs from other Sheryl fans*

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by zalem

Me too. I think it will be left unresolved. And part of me thinks if it is resolved it'll go in Ranka's favor. At least if Kawamori has complete control of the ending. I don't know, I just have the distinct feeling he was very disappointed with where her character went in the end. Of course, maybe he'll just improve her character and not make her win the LT. But part of me still has the feeling he wants the Minmei/Mao of the series to win for once. But I just don't know if he has the guts to do it, therefore he will probably leave it unresolved. Too many people want AruSheryl. I mean, even a lot of the cast seems to favor it. He probably doesn't want to face their rage.

*runs from other Sheryl fans*

You were singing the exact same tune during the whole series, so pardon me if I don´t break out in hives just because you said it one more time.

[raile]

Triangle or not, all I can say is that Sheryl is way in the lead.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by raile

Triangle or not, all I can say is that Sheryl is way in the lead.

More like isosceles triangle, where Alto and Sheryl are the the two equal angles. |DD; {Ranka can get the tiny base lol}

[Teletha]

Zalem was always cynical!

Though I do agree I don't think Kawamori's happy with Ranka's character. I'm gonna laugh when she's changed completely in the movie. The help me! scene is part of why Ranka's character sucks. I was so hoping she'd save herself there.

[magnuskn]

Teletha!

Good to see you back.

[Teletha]

I'm around. My life has sucked recently. I almost moved, but then didn't move.... so I'm back hating on Ranka. Any new arguments being made recently? I read back seeing the same old thing.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Teletha

I'm around. My life has sucked recently. I almost moved, but then didn't move.... so I'm back hating on Ranka. Any new arguments being made recently? I read back seeing the same old thing.

Nah, not really much. After the fifth go-around people got tired, I guess.

I yesterday had a little spat with Natsu in the Sheryl fanclub over the ending. She maintains the ending was a triangle, I say it was not. To me, Sheryl winning was simply not shown, but very much so implied. If you are bored, you can find it over there.

As for the movie, Klans role will apparently be expanded, as she is very popular. It has been hinted in some interview that we´ll get a conclusion to the romance, although for some reason the writers are pushing the decision on Alto, instead of on themselves.

[zalem]

Originally Posted by Teletha

Zalem was always cynical!

Though I do agree I don't think Kawamori's happy with Ranka's character. I'm gonna laugh when she's changed completely in the movie. The help me! scene is part of why Ranka's character sucks. I was so hoping she'd save herself there.

I can't help it. I don't trust Kawamori.

I really am looking forward to any improvements on Ranka's character in the movie. That's one positive at least.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

You were singing the exact same tune during the whole series, so pardon me if I don´t break out in hives just because you said it one more time.

I became a bit more positive thinking about the chances of Sheryl and Alto after all that development up to episode 24. However, now knowing that the only reason that even happened was because Kawamori gave up control of the story and only took it back in episode 25 has me kind of pessimistic again. If he controls the movie, I forsee a more pro-Ranka vibe unless he is just too pressured by Sheryl-mania that he gives in.