Law Penalizing Downloaders, Criminalizing Ripping Passes in Japan

[TheEroKing]

Indeed, kinda impossible for the ISPs if you read Vexx's post at the top of previous page. Even if they somehow managed to use the system (lol someone financing them with millons of dollars?) it would set a chain reaction and at the end hit the economy bad. It's a lose-lose scenario. No need to panic ┐(￣ー￣)┌

[Vexx]

Panic, paranoia, and the repeating of "what if" and other bad information is unproductive and worse than useless. Being cautious, careful, and wary is good.

Good Idea: Looking both ways before crossing the street. Learning how the street and the vehicles on it work and behave.
Bad Idea: Running up and down the curb moaning to everyone around you about how dangerous the street might be.

[asaqe]

Originally Posted by TheEroKing

Indeed, kinda impossible for the ISPs if you read Vexx's post at the top of previous page. Even if they somehow managed to use the system (lol someone financing them with millons of dollars?) it would set a chain reaction and at the end hit the economy bad. It's a lose-lose scenario. No need to panic ┐(￣ー￣)┌

It is very easy to do, remember how Eroge Sites banned foreign IPs, simply banning Japanese IPs form even accessing torrent sites and it will be a simple matter of rooting out the local uploaders and shutting them down

[TheEroKing]

You can get around IP bans with proxies and torrents are always risky so better to use ddl sites or get them from irc. Uploading licensed content has been illegal in japan for quite some time but if it was being seriously enforced we wouldn't be seeing all the anime releases that we do today. Besides the law is aimed at spying/checking all traffic of their subscribers not censoring it.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by asaqe

It is very easy to do, remember how Eroge Sites banned foreign IPs, simply banning Japanese IPs form even accessing torrent sites and it will be a simple matter of rooting out the local uploaders and shutting them down

You know....I can and do regularly get past those eroge sites' foreign IP bans...just saying....

That's about as effective as using a sheet of paper to stop a knife...

[j0x]

meanwhile in Japan protest is starting in a peaceful way -> http://phys.org/news/2012-07-japan-a...-download.html

[asaqe]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

You know....I can and do regularly get past those eroge sites' foreign IP bans...just saying....

That's about as effective as using a sheet of paper to stop a knife...

It is aimed at taking down the average joe who isn't computer literate enough to know about such things

[hyl]

Originally Posted by asaqe

It is aimed at taking down the average joe who isn't computer literate enough to know about such things

Even an idiot like myself can easily proxy around those sites

Besides i don't think that the average joe visit any eroge sites.

[Vexx]

Don't forget ... this is a Japanese law targeting Japanese. What scares the industry is "reverse importation/smuggling" as much as file sharing. The only effect on "gaijin/outsiders/overseas" people is that it may get a bit more difficult getting access to broadcast recordings for the fansubbers to use until the uploaders feel more confident with encryption and obscurity measures.

[SeijiSensei]

It will be interesting to see if there's any observable effect whatsoever at TT. I'm betting not much.

[j0x]

i might as well re-post it here since every well written word of this japanese has a lasting impact to me when i read it and might convince people here that can afford to buy anime

dang im shaken of what i read on MAL about this same thread i posted there

a japanese that is so good in english (that is rare) give a lot of insights
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topici...20#msg15764351

Spoiler:

I hate piracy with a passion, but I am against this law too, for the following reasons.

1) This whole bill was started up by JASRAC and a few other CD companies that have pressured the government saying "The unauthorized streaming of full versions of music on video sites such as youtube and nicovideo have been causing a major decline in CD sales for the past few years." Note that this is a huge lie, because the reason why most Japanese people don't buy CDs anymore is because they are readily available at an insanely cheap price at your local legitimate rental store.

2) Most government officials do not know how to use the internet. They do not know what a torrent is, nor do they know that Japan is pretty much the only country that is financially maintaining the subcultural industry while the rest of the world continues to leech on. The government officials are just masturbating, trying to feel like they're actually doing something, when in fact, they just don't have the ability to do anything about this problem at a global scale.

3) By enforcing this law, the Japanese government is only weakening the Japanese otaku spirit that allows otakus to buy BDs at ridiculously high prices such as 130$ per 2 eps. Unlike most of you all, we, the only actual possible victims of this bill, are basically the only people financially holding the ever decreasing production of anime together. You can expect pretty much all subcultural magnitudes on all vectors from doujin-making to BD-sales plummet if they do indeed start fining people 2000000 yen or imprisoning people for 2 years for watching a simple anime MAD on nicovideo. Note, the upload punishments are quintuple that. If indeed otakus do stop buying these ridiculously expensive BDs, you can be assured that anime companies will be at a loss for production budgets, because these sales dominate their income by far. The world will only be getting less than a dozen new Japanimaton TV series per year then.

4) The definition of "illegal download" is extremely obscure, to the point the bill looks like an elementary school level essay. No one knows exactly what is liable for punishment, and moreover, the main targets, which are the middle/high school students, are totally unaware of this bill/law's existence. I highly doubt the government is going to imprison 90% of the next generation population out of unfounded and inscrutable documentation.

5) On the contrary however, there have been an increasing number of news articles that report arrest for selling, downloading, and uploading on various scales. Obviously, the current number of reports is merely an insignificant portion of the 99% of the cybernetic society that are involved in subcultural fandom, but the government is not exactly inactive in enforcing the current policies, which means October 1st can perhaps mean doomsday for our common knowledge of subcultural fandom.

tl;dr The Japanese government wants Japan to commit suicide. Moreover, it's we, the Japanese residents, who are in trouble; not you foreign leechers.

Spoiler:

Just one thing friend, you seem so passionate to blame international users and label them leechers BUT have you stopped to think about it?

Course I have. It wouldn't be entirely wrong to say I think every which way about this everyday, especially when I click the purchase button for hundreds of dollars worth item lists.

Selling/buying licenses holds little or no benefit to the local distributors.

Given that most of even the first world countries don't pay what they should be paying, what would make anyone think the rest of the world will? They won't.

As you know, it costs money to license these things. The local distributors expect to earn that licensing money and an income from surplus, from customers that actually buy whatever they license. However, as Bandai Entertainment of America has sacrificially proven, local distributors can only lose out. BEA bought licenses to expensive/popular anime like Haruhi and K-ON, but no one bought even if the prices were as low as 3% of the Japanese prices, and the anime distributing faction went bankrupt. Many employees lost their jobs and were in tears when they saw "Where can I download this movie?" on the youtube K-ON movie trailers. After seeing something like that, do you actually think any country would be willing to buy licenses anymore to follow suit? I respect CR, FUNi, VIZanime etc., but they are the exceptions. What they're doing will never become the norm, because humans just love free and unpunished acquisition of property, even if it's at the indirect expense of those who provide it. More than half the people here don't care what happened to BEA or any of the original creators even, as long as you get a replacement.

It's not too difficult to start non-profit foreign transfers of Japanese material. For instance, there are several people on shrinemaiden who buy Touhou merchandise in Japan to send it overseas without interest. In fact, I can do it too. You don't need government agencies and large business companies to do everything for you. If you really wanted to support our cause, you would be asking me to relay your payment to the Japanese front, where I would buy whatever you want and send the items back to you. Well, you're not. Need subs? Well that's not so hard; look at all the fansubbers around you doing the subbing for free. The only difference here is that you would be paying whatever money due to the industry. Course, no one could even think of that.

You know, it'd be even simpler just to donate whatever you think you should be paying to the respective companies. They wouldn't mind piracy as long as they get the money. I'm sure some companies are aware that certain parts of the world are experiencing inequality concerning anime availability, and even before that, most companies are not against the doujin or fandom culture. It would be very very easy to organize a donation effort, but of course, that didn't cross your minds either.

Don't run to "oh, but not everyone has money." Please don't, because that's a ridiculous waste of time. I believe most people work to buy whatever they want, and can't buy whatever they can't afford. Don't run to "oh, but not everyone has a job" either. Well, I wouldn't mind paying an extra sum for people who are working diligently to earn a living, but that's not the kind of people I'm talking to here.

You say I'd be immoral or cruel to say "too bad, you can't watch". Well, I used to say it's "immoral to steal from these original creators", but looks like it isn't at all at these days. Well guess what, I don't think it makes me immoral to say "too bad" either. If things are rectified that is. Heh, as it is now, you're the ones saying "too bad, we ain't payin' " to us. How cruel, how immoral, exploiting us like slaves. If I may add, your argument about immorality concerning international inequalities is totally defunct. There are nations that house gluttons, while there are nations where half the population is starving. There are nations where children get the best of education, while there are nations where half the children are sent to the battlefront. The unfairness concerning anime availability is trivial compared to that, to the point it seems stupid for the creators to have to consider you all. You can't possibly complain when anime is entirely Japanese (some Chinese/Korean w.e.) in nature. Japanese creators are not obligated to share their products worldwide, most certainly not for free, though I find from various quotes and associations that many do indeed show generosity concerning the underground exploitation of their products. Moreover, people like me have no obligations whatsoever to pay for you all, though we are, considering prices would be significantly lower if even 1% of you all paid.

Think again, friend. You're all basically thinking on the premise that piracy has become undoubted common knowledge. It's not me not thinking about you all, but you not thinking about us. Whine and whimper all you like, like the proud pirates you all are. In the meanwhile, we'll be eating mud.


Discussions couldn't get more fruitless than this. These laws are going to be ineffective, and even if they go into effect, you're not the ones "losing out"; we are, when we'll be paying tens of thousands to the government instead of thousands to the industry. You never should have had anything in the first place. The number of Japanese anime productions will continue to decrease as they have been for the past few years, and we'll all settle to a nice finale when only one or two animes are being made every year. Oh never mind, by that time China will be mass-producing their cheap animes, as the number of Chinese anime productions have been increasing these past few years. You can turn to them; they're full of pirates at the nationally approved level, so you probably wouldn't find people like me there.

BOOM!!! those reply is coming from a real japanese that buys a lot of BD/DVD to support the dying anime industry
and i got no excuse but to say im poor and piracy is common anyway, feels so guilty man

and that japanese confirmed it too it wont affect us (foreigners), only them the japanese are affected greatly by this law

[asaqe]

This is seriously an iron curtain of sorts. looks like Japan is going for another round of Isolationism and Americans already have Koreans to fall back on. More easily manipulated