[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 6 Dawn of the golden witch

[MeoTwister5]

Short summary for today. I should have time for more summaries starting tomorrow.

Beato1 vs. Natsuhi Ushiromiya

Spoiler for Ep6 summaries:

- Natsuhi is in her room after being told by Krauss to rest. She is still anxious. She wonders when the conference will start again, since she still has her agenda (same as the previous games).
- She takes out a box filled with her own personal mementos. She takes out a small bag which contains an amulet she received upon marriage. It is a mirror (probably the same one as in Ep2). She reminisces about her youth. She talks about her devotion, her sadness, love, etc. similarly from Ep5.
- She remembers her childhood and the discipline she had. Beato1 appears from thin air. Natsuhi is of course shocked and does not recognize her.
- Beato1 reminds her of the baby of 19 years ago (Ep5) who died. Beato1 seems to know this because Battler of the metaworld had learned from the previous game of this man's existence in Natsuhi's past.
- Beato1 says the child's death/murder is on Natsuhi's hands. She demands that Beato1 get out. Beato1 talks about killing out of love.
- Beato1 starts choking Natsuhi. Beato1 apparently lifts her up as Natsuhi struggles to get free. Beato1 says something about Battler I can't translate, and says that with her own crimes she won't judge her for hers.
- Beato1 suddenly lets her go due to a sound (?). Something seems to have hit Beato1 and she collapses. Beato1 wonders what is happening.
- Side scene Beato2 is surprised at what happened. Beato1 doesn't understand either. They both realize it has something to do with Natsuhi's amulet.
- Natsuhi seems to realize who she is and what happened. She picks up the amulet and tries to get away. The amulet repels Beato1.
- Natsuhi instead tries to corner Beato1 and asks her why she's trying to kill her. Beato1 begins to feel the pain from the amulet. Natsuhi tries to dispel her as Beato1 tries to fight and win her trial.
- Zepar and Furfur ask if she's giving up. Beato1 says she wants to win her trial to get Battler's love and attention. She actually says she loves Battler.
- Beato believes her prupose is to love Battler.
- She tries to resist the amulet. She refuses to be defeated for her love for Battler. In her force the amulet shatters. (For some reason DreamEndDischarger plays)
- The amulet is shattered by one of the stakes. Lucifer appears. Beato1 has no recollection of her furniture, but Lucifer says she is here to help her trial. Natsuhi screams and starts freaking.
- Beato1 starts choking her again. She notices that the room is a locked room. Natsuhi's anti-magic toxin might allow her to escape the room.
- Beato1 commands Lucifer to kill her. Lucifer pierces Natsuhi in the head as blood sprays everywhere.
- Zepar and Furfur wonder if they should declare Beato1's win since she did get help from a stake. They sort of declare that her love brought about the summoning of Lucifer so it's valid.
- Meta Battler appears for some reason and approaches Beato1. Beato1 apologizes for what she had to do. Battler apparently isn't angry. He's actually smiling. He talks some stuff about love. He just wants to be called Battler apparently because he dislikes the formality between them.
- Well she can call him "Battler" now. He seems to forgive her of sorts. He admonishes her a little though for partaking in this trial. She says sorry.
- I assume Battler seems to approve of the current flow of the game. Zepar and Furfur bless them both. Battler seems to like it. Beato1 is happy.
- Zepar and Furfur welcome him as the lord of the trial. They both ascertain if the six people of love in the trial have completed theirs (Meta Battler is part of the trial?). They say it is resolved and they disappear.

This all makes me confused: Is the cloaked Battler who appears in the trial a sort of Piece Battler for the game or the actual Meta Battler? Frankly I find his change of heart a bit too sudden, plus it seems like he's having a direct hand on the game he made.

Also, the two demons say there are six lovers in this trial, which would relate to six sacrifices, and I assume Battler himself (cloaked Battler, whether he's a piece or Meta Battler) is the sixth person. I didn't include the part where Battler talks about his sacrfice because I wasn't sure of the translation:

Spoiler for spoiler?:

Either I missed it and he didn't sacrifice one, or he did sacrifice someone but didn't elaborate.

I also have the sneaking suspicion that his sacrifice was... well with all the family women dead save for Jessica, he might have offed himself, as in his piece form...

[Xplosivv]

You are correct. Also, he did say

Spoiler for Ep 6:

sacrificed someone. He just didn't say whom. If I remember correctly, it was something in the lines of "I've already done my part", and then the two weirdos went to check it. And yes, he did kill his piece. And yes, it is Meta Battler.

[Antera Caramichael]

Hum, I just remembered... why did

Spoiler for Episode 6 spoiler:

Featherine destituted Battler from being the game master?

The answer is:

Spoiler for Episode 6 spoiler:

Because he couldn't suspect his own family.

Spoiler for Spoiler 1-6:

This is another clue with which I can assume that it was a clear message from Ryukishi: "Hey guys, why can't you just suspect one or more of the family from being the culprit?" it is just like Battler did: because he thinks he knows his family, he can't take one of them under suspicion. He couldn't suspect any of them in Ep2 "I refuse to suspect one of them" nor in Ep5 "Even if no one believe in her, I must believe in her because I can't imagine her being the culprit."
From the very begining, Beatrice underline this as being his weakeness "Why can't you believe one of them being the culprit? You could solve the riddle so easily!" But when I read the theories, I am wondering if Battler wasn't an alegory of us...

[Geekodot]

I really enjoyed episode 6. Imo, it is probably the best episode this far (yes, even better than banquet) on the meta part... Found it a little lacking on the game board though...

Spoiler for maybe spoilerish material, tagging for safety:

I wanted more Rudolf now that he actually survived long enough to get a Winchester again
The magic scenes were really awesome this time though, might be the best yet.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Spoiler for Ep6 summaries:

- Beato1 commands Lucifer to kill her. Lucifer pierces Natsuhi in the head as blood sprays everywhere.
- Zepar and Furfur wonder if they should declare Beato1's win since she did get help from a stake. They sort of declare that her love brought about the summoning of Lucifer so it's valid.

Spoiler for Some possible corrections:

- Zepar and Furfur sent Lucifer after Beato1 showed her determination to win Battler's love.
- I think the one who ordered Lucifer to pierce Natsuhi was Battler, and not Beato1. This is why Zepar and Furfur wondered whether she passed or not, because she had received help. But they said this was an exception, because the one who helped her was her loved one, and lovers count as one.

Originally Posted by Antera Caramichael

The answer is:

Spoiler for Episode 6 spoiler:

Because he couldn't suspect his own family.

It wasn't about Battler not suspecting his family. Battler no longer has to suspect anyone, as he's already reached the truth. What Featherine said was that Battler wouldn't show that truth, because he doesn't want to make his family look like murderers.

[TsundereCake]

Originally Posted by ~Pyro~

From what I understood, yes. But, then again, I am using Atlas and AGTH...

Originally Posted by Smeckledorf

The answer is yes.

Spoiler for game end - still noob comments:

Isn't that a little a*sholish on Battler's part though? Since she's not technically Beato, right? Since AuAu said she can't be revived?

Oh yeah, and the reason I questioned the "they get married" statement is because I heard somewhere else that Battler decides to treat newBeato as (original) Beato's daughter, which sounds a little weird if both those things are true (marrying the daughter of your loved one ) But maybe that only sounds weird to me

[Marion]

Originally Posted by TsundereCake

Spoiler for game end - still noob comments:

Isn't that a little a*sholish on Battler's part though? Since she's not technically Beato, right? Since AuAu said she can't be revived?

Oh yeah, and the reason I questioned the "they get married" statement is because I heard somewhere else that Battler decides to treat newBeato as (original) Beato's daughter, which sounds a little weird if both those things are true (marrying the daughter of your loved one ) But maybe that only sounds weird to me

Battler does not decide to treat her as his daughter and they do marry.

The game says that the newBeato is similar to an amnesiac Beato. She can't remember anything about herself, nor about who she was. By the end of the game she is very much like our old Beato. Still I do agree with you. Even if the game says that she's an egg Beato, to me she feels like a complete replacement. It reminds me a lot of Kinzo's love - he loved her so much he always tried to revive her.

EP 6's romantic aspect when it comes to BatBeato is very much grimdark - its very depressing in a way. The ending of it all however feels too forced. "Hey we just beat the big bad, lets get married!" Ryukishi cannot write romances. He either goes too tragic or too sappy. There never seems to be any in between from what I've seen. If I had to pick an in between couple it would probably be Hideyoshi/Eva and Kyrie/Rudolf. Although the former does go a bit tragic when Eva goes pretty much nuts after George and Hideyoshi die, and we don't know enough about the latter's relationship from Rudolf's standpoint - so far we only have Kyrie's opinion and a bit of Battler's.

[TsundereCake]

Originally Posted by Marion

Battler does not decide to treat her as his daughter and they do marry.

The game says that the newBeato is similar to an amnesiac Beato. She can't remember anything about herself, nor about who she was. By the end of the game she is very much like our old Beato. Still I do agree with you. Even if the game says that she's an egg Beato, to me she feels like a complete replacement. It reminds me a lot of Kinzo's love - he loved her so much he always tried to revive her.

EP 6's romantic aspect when it comes to BatBeato is very much grimdark - its very depressing in a way. The ending of it all however feels too forced. "Hey we just beat the big bad, lets get married!" Ryukishi cannot write romances. He either goes too tragic or too sappy. There never seems to be any in between from what I've seen. If I had to pick an in between couple it would probably be Hideyoshi/Eva and Kyrie/Rudolf. Although the former does go a bit tragic when Eva goes pretty much nuts after George and Hideyoshi die, and we don't know enough about the latter's relationship from Rudolf's standpoint - so far we only have Kyrie's opinion and a bit of Battler's.

*Phew* I'm glad that was fake

Leave it to a moe-lover to screw up romance

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by Marion

Battler does not decide to treat her as his daughter and they do marry.

The game says that the newBeato is similar to an amnesiac Beato. She can't remember anything about herself, nor about who she was. By the end of the game she is very much like our old Beato. Still I do agree with you. Even if the game says that she's an egg Beato, to me she feels like a complete replacement. It reminds me a lot of Kinzo's love - he loved her so much he always tried to revive her.

EP 6's romantic aspect when it comes to BatBeato is very much grimdark - its very depressing in a way. The ending of it all however feels too forced. "Hey we just beat the big bad, lets get married!" Ryukishi cannot write romances. He either goes too tragic or too sappy. There never seems to be any in between from what I've seen. If I had to pick an in between couple it would probably be Hideyoshi/Eva and Kyrie/Rudolf. Although the former does go a bit tragic when Eva goes pretty much nuts after George and Hideyoshi die, and we don't know enough about the latter's relationship from Rudolf's standpoint - so far we only have Kyrie's opinion and a bit of Battler's.

I always felt that romance wasn't his strong point... I guess it's even more apparent in EP6 though since this game is basically based around it? O.o

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

I always felt that romance wasn't his strong point... I guess it's even more apparent in EP6 though since this game is basically based around it? O.o

Romance is a major motif in the game (without love, etc etc). But I do think that it isn't his strong point. Since the game was going to focus on the story more I was anticipating major character and story development, but really didn't see that. The game cleared up minor things and we got a revival of Beatrice a game after she died. I would have waited until EP 7 to bring her back, even though she is a favorite character, because her entire death feels cheap. Not that Battler completely brought her back, but still.

Then again the two lover pairs get development from each other. If you notice Jessica is never properly developed without Kanon involved and the same goes for him. Shannon and George also have a similar issue with that, which is maybe why I don't like them as standalone characters.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Marion

Ryukishi cannot write romances. He either goes too tragic or too sappy. There never seems to be any in between from what I've seen. If I had to pick an in between couple it would probably be Hideyoshi/Eva and Kyrie/Rudolf. Although the former does go a bit tragic when Eva goes pretty much nuts after George and Hideyoshi die, and we don't know enough about the latter's relationship from Rudolf's standpoint - so far we only have Kyrie's opinion and a bit of Battler's.

I always figured that the young couples' romances were intentionally written bad and overly sappy, especially since the relationships between the adults are written so realistically.

As for Bat/Beato, I'll have to see for myself, but it doesn't sound that terrible.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I always figured that the young couples' romances were intentionally written bad and overly sappy, especially since the relationships between the adults are written so realistically.

As for Bat/Beato, I'll have to see for myself, but it doesn't sound that terrible.

I don't see why he would intentionally write a couple badly, when he's obviously pushing it as their loves will last forever (well besides Kanon and Jessica, which this game sorta implies is due to fail by Shannon and George's victory)

Don't get me wrong, I love the pairing. It's just too grimdark.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Marion

I don't see why he would intentionally write a couple badly, when he's obviously pushing it as their loves will last forever (well besides Kanon and Jessica, which this game sorta implies is due to fail by Shannon and George's victory)

I've always interpreted those two relationships as only existing in fake/magic scenes... George and Shannon are far, far too perfect, and from what I've heard of the Kanon/Jessica relationship this episode, it's painfully unrealistic and saccharine.

Originally Posted by Marion

Don't get me wrong, I love the pairing. It's just too grimdark.

I don't mind this at all.

[Raiza Sunozaki]

I agree with Kaisos on this point. Whenever I read the George/Shannon scenes, the fanboy side of me was in constant "awwwww" but the sensible, logical half wouldn't shut up on how cheesy it was. It was about the same with Jessica/Kanon, but you have to condescend that it is really, really hard to write a teenage romance that does not sound sappy.
On the other hand, the interactions between couples like Rudolf and Kyrie felt really well-done to me. Here's a man who like to go off and frolic, and the one woman who can "handle his reins." The interactions between the two always feel fitting and mature (as mature as you can get with Rudolf's childishness).
So I've got to agree that the sappy scenes with the teens are intentional by Ryuukishi. So I've got a feeling that the coupling of Egg-Beato and Battler will work well.

[AmyElizzabeth]

Originally Posted by TsundereCake

Spoiler for game end - still noob comments:

Isn't that a little a*sholish on Battler's part though? Since she's not technically Beato, right? Since AuAu said she can't be revived?

I pretty much agree.

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Originally Posted by TsundereCake

Spoiler for game end - still noob comments:

Isn't that a little a*sholish on Battler's part though? Since she's not technically Beato, right? Since AuAu said she can't be revived?

You have to consider what it means to be revived. Beato, as the specific existence that Battler fought against in 1-4 and for in 5, is dead. Completely, utterly dead. And no matter how hard he tries, Battler will never be able to revive that specific existence. But if the Egg-Beato he created grows up with exactly the same one thousand years of experiences the original Beato did, she will become exactly like her.
It's not perfect, but I find it a satisfying alternative.

[Isekaijin]

Could someone explain what's the logic error thing?

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Isekaijin

Could someone explain what's the logic error thing?

If you're asking then I'm guessing you didn't play the game I'm sure Klash said before this was a discussion thread, not a spoiler thread.

[Isekaijin]

Indeed, sorry for asking.

[ameskitty]

Sappiness in the relationships as an intentional plot point? I've always believed that the Shannon/George sappiness was intentional. That's why I don't have a lot of trouble accepting Shannontrice. I never saw any substance at all in their relationship at all minus them both wanting a family . No couple can love each other that much, at least in my opinion, and that's why I've always felt that it was a lie. And if they do they need a significant background, which I don't think they've had. As far as we know they don't do "loving couple-y" things like hugging or kissing, either.

Jessica and Kanon...hrm. I agree - first love stories tend to be sappy no matter who writes them. Anyways, I've always seen substance in those two - to spare a wall of text I'll say it mostly has to do with how they're very similar characters in dissimilar ways. Which also gives them a reason to get the bulk of their development through each other, since without those similar traits Kanon's just an emo servant kid and Jessica's just an infatuated adolescent. They've also had clashes with their personalities/duties in the past and given their natures will probably will have them in the future - a healthy relationship always faces these conflicts, and whether or not it survives depends on how the conflicts are resolved. I even saw hints of what probably would've been an argument before Kanon brought out the brooch (mostly in Jessica's insistence that their being together should make Kanon's furniture issues just "go away"). I've never got any sort of feeling like that from George and Shannon - heck, in the scene where I think there should've been some sort of argument between them (particularly when George hinted that Shannon didn't seem as happy as she was 6 years ago), Shannon was all smiles. That's just suspicious to me, which is why I didn't roll my eyes as much as I could have.

Anyways...tldr I think in their case there's at least a bit of substance and most of the sappiness there is due to their ages and weak writing. I mean I like the pairing and all but the whole sun thing took it a little too far .

And if GeorgexShannon doesn't turn out to be fake I think I'll have to have a trashcan nearby when I reread all of their "deep love" scenes . Because then it really would be bad writing.