Guilty Crown - General Discussion

[Akashin]

I could be mistaken, but wasn't Mana shown to be already infected in every scene we saw her in? If that is so, it's entirely possible that the infection just caused a gradual degradation of her mind (and for all we know she may have always had incestuous feelings toward Shu, and being infected just made her more open to acting on them or something); just because we didn't see the entire process of her mental shift doesn't mean it was an immediate change.

[Astraios]

Originally Posted by Akashin

I could be mistaken, but wasn't Mana shown to be already infected in every scene we saw her in? If that is so, it's entirely possible that the infection just caused a gradual degradation of her mind (and for all we know she may have always had incestuous feelings toward Shu, and being infected just made her more open to acting on them or something); just because we didn't see the entire process of her mental shift doesn't mean it was an immediate change.

I don't exclude that possibility (nothing is certain so far, after all).
However she didn't say to him something like "I wanted you for so long... etc", She said "Let's use our genes to create a new world" (at 16:01, on the episode, I assume the subtitles are accurate). How can a young girl on her own, get a megalomaniac idea of "creating new world"?
Also, that man Shuichiro Keido said he wants to create a new world and Mana was fine with it.
Of course I could be wrong, but I think that there is a high probability that the apocalypse virus is a conscious intelligent (or pre-programmed) microorganism that has its own plans and can take over it's victims to turn them into puppets or kill them.
Perhaps the apocalypse virus takes over a female person, this person somehow becomes something like a "queen" (like in bees) and someone must mate with her, so the queen will give birth to a new race.

By the way, in episode 12 (at 14:39), when Gai talks to Shu, he says "your new mother" when he talks about Haruka. So I suppose Haruka is not Shu's biological mother. I wonder who Shu's biological mother is and if Shu and Mana have the same biological mother.

[Manic]

Also, that man Shuichiro Keido said he wants to create a new world and Mana was fine with it.

that isnt true, he actually had to have the stone to force her into it. Bushy brow says even the stubborn eve cant refuse when the stone is used.

It cant be with just anyone you have to be "Chosen"

[Astraios]

Originally Posted by Manic

that isnt true, he actually had to have the stone to force her into it. Bushy brow says even the stubborn eve cant refuse when the stone is used.

It cant be with just anyone you have to be "Chosen"

Oh, yes you're right, I forgot this.
So Shu is apparently the chosen one, but chosen by who, Mana or the virus itself? Or perhaps there is something different in Shu's DNA.
If Mana is Eve, then I guess Shu is Adam, we need one more to play the evil serpent

[Manic]

well if ya wanna go that route i guess Mana = eve, shu = adam, virus rock = the apple, and bushy brows = the serpent

[FrejaOne]

I have just one question.

Spoiler for episode 12:

If Mana's soul was without a body so they needed to make a new body for her, what the hell did Shu stab?

[Astraios]

@Manic
Good point.

@IllegalGoddess
They showed Mana/Mana's body before Shu stabbed them, so I suppose the "ceremony" recreated Mana's body.

[FrejaOne]

Originally Posted by Astraios

@Manic
Good point.

@IllegalGoddess
They showed Mana/Mana's body before Shu stabbed them, so I suppose the "ceremony" recreated Mana's body.

Then why would they need Inori's? And the ceremony was being done to Inori, so it's obviously the primary body. If Mana's own body could be rebuilt by sacrificing Inori, then Mana's own body would get the ring.

I'm also curious about Gai--the place where they found him, Mana's secret place. Was it the same kind of place as the destroyed tower? Was Mana already infected by then, able to create new place-spaces? And if yes, what does that make Gai?
Even if it was just a regular old beach, I hope we'll get an explanation of how he got there.

[FrejaOne]

And one more thing. Right after Lost Christmas, before leaving Shu at the ruins, Gai tells him he intends to get stronger in order to save Mana.
But how does he know Mana is not destroyed and is still existing in some form? There was a huge ass explosion, it's only natural to assume she died. Notice he didn't try to dig her out or whatever. He acted as if he knew she existed on a different plane, in a different way.

[Astraios]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

Then why would they need Inori's? And the ceremony was being done to Inori, so it's obviously the primary body. If Mana's own body could be rebuilt by sacrificing Inori, then Mana's own body would get the ring.

Perhaps they needed Inori to just start the ceremony and then kill her at the end.

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

I'm also curious about Gai--the place where they found him, Mana's secret place. Was it the same kind of place as the destroyed tower? Was Mana already infected by then, able to create new place-spaces? And if yes, what does that make Gai?
Even if it was just a regular old beach, I hope we'll get an explanation of how he got there.

We don't know so far, I assume that Mana was infected around time Gai was found, perhaps a little before that, or a little afterwards.

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

And one more thing. Right after Lost Christmas, before leaving Shu at the ruins, Gai tells him he intends to get stronger in order to save Mana.
But how does he know Mana is not destroyed and is still existing in some form? There was a huge ass explosion, it's only natural to assume she died. Notice he didn't try to dig her out or whatever. He acted as if he knew she existed on a different plane, in a different way.

I think Gai (as a kid) said "I'll get stronger", at that time anyone would assume that Mana died, Gai might have found more about the virus & Mana & ceremony as he got older and investigated.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Astraios

I can understand that the virus caused mutation, but I don't see how Mana went from being a good sister to "Let's have sex, make babies and create a new race".
It's not like her character changed a bit or made her incoherent. When she became infected, she had completely different goals than before. She had a completely different way of thought (which remained logical, it wasn't incoherent).
That's why I was thinking that the virus might be some kind of microorganism that has an intelligence/consciousness of its own. Perhaps when someone becomes infected, the virus/microorganism takes over and the infected person is nothing more than a puppet.

Perhaps the virus/microorganism was sent to earth by some aliens and it's just doing what the aliens programmed it to. Kill or mutate normal humans and create a new race.

Yes...the virus is obviously not normal. It's alien from that rock and more like a taint than an actual pathogen.

Mana loved her brother before that and it simply got twisted in that sense

[FrejaOne]

I also wonder why Gai wasn't insane and how came he didn't die when Mana exploded.
The little infected boy Shu had to kill said he felt like he went crazy once he got the virus.
Mana was Mana.
Gai lived with the virus for ten years, and his mind is still clear when we meet him. We could assume Inori's blood helped, but when Mana started showing the first signs of "second personality", she didn't look too deeply infected.

Also, when Mana exploded, Shu survived because he was special, but what about Gai, Shu's living shield? How come lots of people died even though they were miles away, but a small wounded boy right next to the center of events only got a trace of infection which didn't even affect him at once (later he looks normal when he leaves Shu)?

Dammit he's dead like twenty times over now and he's still the most interesting character in the show.

re: alien theory, I think so too. It seemed like a potential hive mind with Mana as a hive queen. Inori even said she heard Gai saying thank you as he died, but she couldn't have heard it--Mana heard it before she followed him. So, Inori had a mind connection to Mana?
Or--is Mana actually still alive, as if she has been "downloaded" into Inori's body?

[Manic]

shu stabbed the soul of mana that was being preserved in that crystal. We can presume that gai didnt go mad because his virus was kept in check by inoris blood, altho we dont know if everyone who has the virus goes mad. Mana was special since she was the 1st.

As for Gai and Shu not dieing, plot armor i guess? I suppose you can explain it that Mana wasnt meaning to kill them or atleast shu, and regained some of her sanity.

As for inori hearing gai, Its been shown since ep 1 that mana and her already have a connection as we have seen mana talk through inori on more than 1 occasion. So its not out of the realm of possibility that the share somewhat the same conscientiousness

[rakusukira]

from what I understood, Inori was a catalyst.. a "bridge" to connect and reach Mana..
It is possible that Mana was chosen to become "Eve" and Shu as the "Adam" counterpart.. that would explain why they grew up together under Professor Ouma.

Mana was created specifically to be the host of the virus.. but somehow, she couldn't contain the power within her and exploded . Shu and Gai were not killed because I don't think Mana's intention was to kill them (here we have the theory of the power of will)

[Akashin]

Wait, what? Mana wasn't created... unless I completely missed something? Don't think I did though...

[FrejaOne]

Originally Posted by Manic

shu stabbed the soul of mana that was being preserved in that crystal. We can presume that gai didnt go mad because his virus was kept in check by inoris blood, altho we dont know if everyone who has the virus goes mad. Mana was special since she was the 1st.

But Gai embraced her as he was dying. How did Shu stab a soul with a blade (okay, it's a materialized heart in a way, so) and how did Gai (who wasn't a soul but a living human) manage to embrace a soul without a body?

As for Mana being created... there is a speculation that she and Shu are both test tube babies created for experimenting with an early version of Void Genome.
I dunno about that, but there is another interesting thing.
Mana was the first one to get infected. The Eve.
But right before their little bondage session Gai warns her about the virus.
Why does he know more about it? Why does he know *anything* about it?

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

But Gai embraced her as he was dying. How did Shu stab a soul with a blade (okay, it's a materialized heart in a way, so) and how did Gai (who wasn't a soul but a living human) manage to embrace a soul without a body?

Perhaps Mana's body is dead, but her soul is alive? And that really was her body, but since she can't do anything with it they were doing the ceremony to move her soul to Inori's living body?

I 'unno.

[Astraios]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

But Gai embraced her as he was dying. How did Shu stab a soul with a blade?

Originally Posted by Akashin

Perhaps Mana's body is dead, but her soul is alive? And that really was her body, but since she can't do anything with it they were doing the ceremony to move her soul to Inori's living body?

I 'unno.

It's not impossible,
but perhaps the ceremony was supposed to recreate Mana's body and when Mana was going to be awoken (in her recreated body), the ceremony would end and Inori would have died.
I think that perhaps Inori had inside her some fragments of Mana's "soul" or DNA, so they used that, to entirely recreate Mana.
Something like using a partial clone, to recreate the original person.

[Manic]

But Gai embraced her as he was dying. How did Shu stab a soul with a blade (okay, it's a materialized heart in a way, so) and how did Gai (who wasn't a soul but a living human) manage to embrace a soul without a body?

Because its anime. I am just telling you what happened, you cant explain it by using real world logic

If you paid attention during the episode they say its mana soul in that crystal, her body was destroyed during the 1st lost xmas, and Inori was created to be the new body for mana.

No one knows if shu and mana were testtube babies or created to host the virus. This is all speculation or wild ideas ppl are throwing out.

[nfsac]

So guys, we'll be abble to watch episode 13 on 01/19 as the normal schedule before the break between seasons?