AnimeSuki Forums

Terminator98 · 2012-01-10, 11:38

Remember that legends and everything from the Nasuverse (including heroic spirits) is based on the BELIEF of people, making the various depictions of the many charcaters possible.

Gilgamesh could very well be the prototype version as well as the Stay Night/Zero version, Arthur could very well be Arthuria, and vice versa.

Nasu has made it all that there are LOTS of unaccounted factors and lots of variables in his mystic world (which is one of the reasons why I've taken an interest into fan-ficcing it as it leaves a LOT to imagine for the reader.)

The reader can imagine many things, and there can be many explanations as to why "x" is possible or why "y" isn't as powerful, etc...

Xellos-_^ · 2012-01-10, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

1. Not exactly the most credible source, but...

Pegasus was born form Medusa blood, so Perseus could not have ridden it.

Quote:

2. But Medusa didn't ride anything.

i agree with you on that one. I pointed that out myself but as others have pointed put Nasu is the creator god here. He can do whatever he wants.

Xion Valkyrie · 2012-01-10, 13:06

Well, if you want to stretch things, from the original story you could say Medusa 'rode' Poseidon.

Ithekro · 2012-01-10, 13:09

A+ riding skill takes on another context?

Haak · 2012-01-10, 13:49

Lol, please don't go there...

Xellos-_^ · 2012-01-10, 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

A+ riding skill takes on another context?

no wonder Shirou likes to read books in her room.

ReddyRedWolf · 2012-01-10, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie

Well, if you want to stretch things, from the original story you could say Medusa 'rode' Poseidon.

In some versions she was raped. Sakura being the one who summoned her makes sense in context.

Ithekro · 2012-01-10, 14:55

Wouldn't Perseus be on the same level as Gil? I mean, Zeus is his father and all.

Haak · 2012-01-10, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Wouldn't Perseus be on the same level as Gil? I mean, Zeus is his father and all.

Yeah but so was Hercules and he still got trounced.

Xellos-_^ · 2012-01-10, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Wouldn't Perseus be on the same level as Gil? I mean, Zeus is his father and all.

Gil is 3/4 god, Perseus is only 1/2.

Haak · 2012-01-10, 15:54

I thought Gil was 2/3 God?

Ithekro · 2012-01-10, 16:35

I imagine if Hercules wasn't Mad he'd have done better. Though I wonder if Illya would still have him wrapped around her little finger if he was sane? CAn you imagine Hercules as a Saber?

Also, genetically, you can't be 2/3 anything. We know he had one god for a parent so Gil is at least 1/2 a god. His father may or may not have been part god. But storytellers love to weave tales. 2/3 god is so impossible that it makes it a good story.

ChronoReverse · 2012-01-10, 21:13

In Babylonian legends, you can literally have more than one father. That's the origin of Gilgamesh's 2/3 divinity.

Also, Gilgamesh isn't powerful because of his divinity; he is powerful because he is the oldest king and his vault the origin of almost every noble phantasm held by heroes.

Also, in Nasuverse, the heroic spirits were all real so no you can't have a male Arthur. Even the "fake heroic spirit", Kojiro the False Assassin, was a wraith of a real person who was able to perform Tsubame Gaeshi. He just wasn't really the Kojiro of legend; since Kojiro never actually existed even though people thought he did, the grail had to summon the closest substitute instead.

ivan_mccormik · 2012-01-14, 04:29

I think I totally would have preferred this alternative version of Fate over F/SN. When I heard that Type-Moon changed genders around, it seems like they made considerations based on target fan demographics over telling a good story.

The whole explanation of female Saber's background alone is a huge clusterf**k. How does a king get away with hiding her gender for that long? Magic? And Mordred was born from Saber when she magically got transformed temporarily into a male? What?

I don't know. I just can't take female Saber as seriously when I think too hard about it. It just doesn't pass fridge logic.

There's also this one screenshot of prototype Gilgamesh that is totally awesome, because the blood on his face makes him look kinda like Kratos from God of War. http://images.wikia.com/typemoon/ima...ype_Archer.png

But if they ever *do* get Fate/Prototype green-lit they seriously need Gen Urobochi to finish the script. That man is a genius.

DarkLordOfkichiku · 2012-01-14, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivan_mccormik

The whole explanation of female Saber's background alone is a huge clusterf**k. How does a king get away with hiding her gender for that long? Magic?

Partially. At least, it is said that Merlin used a bit of magic to help keeping up her appearence as a man (actually outright transforming her into one, for a time).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivan_mccormik

And Mordred was born from Saber when she magically got transformed temporarily into a male? What?

No, Mordred was a homunculus created by Morgan le fay, AFAIR...

Xellos-_^ · 2012-01-14, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivan_mccormik

I think I totally would have preferred this alternative version of Fate over F/SN. When I heard that Type-Moon changed genders around, it seems like they made considerations based on target fan demographics over telling a good story.

The whole explanation of female Saber's background alone is a huge clusterf**k. How does a king get away with hiding her gender for that long? Magic? And Mordred was born from Saber when she magically got transformed temporarily into a male? What?

I don't know. I just can't take female Saber as seriously when I think too hard about it. It just doesn't pass fridge logic.

There's also this one screenshot of prototype Gilgamesh that is totally awesome, because the blood on his face makes him look kinda like Kratos from God of War. http://images.wikia.com/typemoon/ima...ype_Archer.png

But if they ever *do* get Fate/Prototype green-lit they seriously need Gen Urobochi to finish the script. That man is a genius.

it wasn't so much as hiding her gender as most people just ignore it. People were sick and tire of the civil war and getting raid by the vikings and the Normans.

Mirron · 2012-01-14, 19:59

I really like the idea of it myself. Gilgamesh in this is way better than the Gilgamesh in F/SN, mostly due to his actual... well, fighting. Saber and Rider are better as well, with Lancer being the only one where both are relatively equal (though think I may prefer prototype). But disagree on Urobuichi coming in (likely spelled it off), would like to see him try another author if Nasu can't do it himself.

Xellos-_^ · 2012-01-14, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirron

I really like the idea of it myself. Gilgamesh in this is way better than the Gilgamesh in F/SN, mostly due to his actual... well, fighting. Saber and Rider are better as well, with Lancer being the only one where both are relatively equal (though think I may prefer prototype). But disagree on Urobuichi coming in (likely spelled it off), would like to see him try another author if Nasu can't do it himself.

not sure what you got against Gen but how about Nisio Ishin

GDB · 2012-01-14, 21:24

If it were going to be made completely, I'd much rather Nasu write it or no one at all. It is his original story from high school, after all.

Terminator98 · 2012-01-14, 22:37

Nasu did write Unlimited Gar Works and Heaven's Feel, which were great scenarios in their own way, however, for ANIME adaptation... I don't think Nasu ever directed the adaptations of his own works right?

What we need for that first of all is a GOOD studio. (Answer would be Unfotable...)

2012-01-10, 11:38	Link #41
Terminator98 Archangelic Demon Vampire Author Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mauritius Age: 30	Remember that legends and everything from the Nasuverse (including heroic spirits) is based on the BELIEF of people, making the various depictions of the many charcaters possible. Gilgamesh could very well be the prototype version as well as the Stay Night/Zero version, Arthur could very well be Arthuria, and vice versa. Nasu has made it all that there are LOTS of unaccounted factors and lots of variables in his mystic world (which is one of the reasons why I've taken an interest into fan-ficcing it as it leaves a LOT to imagine for the reader.) The reader can imagine many things, and there can be many explanations as to why "x" is possible or why "y" isn't as powerful, etc... __________________

2012-01-10, 13:09	Link #44
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	A+ riding skill takes on another context? __________________

2012-01-10, 13:49	Link #45
Haak Me, An Intellectual Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Age: 33	Lol, please don't go there... __________________ MAL \| AnimeSuki Choice Awards 2020 Winners

2012-01-10, 14:55	Link #48
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Wouldn't Perseus be on the same level as Gil? I mean, Zeus is his father and all. __________________

2012-01-10, 15:54	Link #51
Haak Me, An Intellectual Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Age: 33	I thought Gil was 2/3 God? __________________ MAL \| AnimeSuki Choice Awards 2020 Winners

2012-01-10, 13:06	Link #43
Xion Valkyrie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007	Well, if you want to stretch things, from the original story you could say Medusa 'rode' Poseidon.

2012-01-10, 16:35	Link #52
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	I imagine if Hercules wasn't Mad he'd have done better. Though I wonder if Illya would still have him wrapped around her little finger if he was sane? CAn you imagine Hercules as a Saber? Also, genetically, you can't be 2/3 anything. We know he had one god for a parent so Gil is at least 1/2 a god. His father may or may not have been part god. But storytellers love to weave tales. 2/3 god is so impossible that it makes it a good story. __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2012-01-10 at 17:44.

2012-01-10, 21:13	Link #53
ChronoReverse Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	In Babylonian legends, you can literally have more than one father. That's the origin of Gilgamesh's 2/3 divinity. Also, Gilgamesh isn't powerful because of his divinity; he is powerful because he is the oldest king and his vault the origin of almost every noble phantasm held by heroes. Also, in Nasuverse, the heroic spirits were all real so no you can't have a male Arthur. Even the "fake heroic spirit", Kojiro the False Assassin, was a wraith of a real person who was able to perform Tsubame Gaeshi. He just wasn't really the Kojiro of legend; since Kojiro never actually existed even though people thought he did, the grail had to summon the closest substitute instead.

2012-01-14, 04:29	Link #54
ivan_mccormik Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2010	I think I totally would have preferred this alternative version of Fate over F/SN. When I heard that Type-Moon changed genders around, it seems like they made considerations based on target fan demographics over telling a good story. The whole explanation of female Saber's background alone is a huge clusterf*k. How does a king get away with hiding her gender for that long? Magic? And Mordred was born from Saber when she magically got transformed temporarily into a male? What? I don't know. I just can't take female Saber as seriously when I think too hard about it. It just doesn't pass fridge logic. There's also this one screenshot of prototype Gilgamesh that is totally awesome, because the blood on his face makes him look kinda like Kratos from God of War. http://images.wikia.com/typemoon/ima...ype_Archer.png But if they ever do* get Fate/Prototype green-lit they seriously need Gen Urobochi to finish the script. That man is a genius.

2012-01-14, 19:59	Link #57
Mirron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 33	I really like the idea of it myself. Gilgamesh in this is way better than the Gilgamesh in F/SN, mostly due to his actual... well, fighting. Saber and Rider are better as well, with Lancer being the only one where both are relatively equal (though think I may prefer prototype). But disagree on Urobuichi coming in (likely spelled it off), would like to see him try another author if Nasu can't do it himself.

2012-01-14, 21:24	Link #59
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	If it were going to be made completely, I'd much rather Nasu write it or no one at all. It is his original story from high school, after all.

2012-01-14, 22:37	Link #60
Terminator98 Archangelic Demon Vampire Author Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mauritius Age: 30	Nasu did write Unlimited Gar Works and Heaven's Feel, which were great scenarios in their own way, however, for ANIME adaptation... I don't think Nasu ever directed the adaptations of his own works right? What we need for that first of all is a GOOD studio. (Answer would be Unfotable...) __________________