[Manga] Naruto Chapter 653 Discussion Thread

[james0246]

Welcome to the weekly manga chapter discussion thread. This thread is created early to discuss spoilers and speculation about the upcoming chapter as well as discussion of said chapter once it has been released.

As per the forums rules, please don't ask for or mention about where to download the (licensed) manga. Also remember not to post or link to any translations of the manga, since this is illegal as well. Posting a synopses or summary is fine (and welcome) but please do not discuss scans, raws, translation groups, etc. Additionally, if you are posting another's synopsis (or their translation of a synopsis), then please provide credit were credit is due.

Remember that the manga is licensed, do not post significant parts of the chapter. This stands for pictures and direct translations. Summaries are OK, crops of pictures are OK as well if you want to illustrate your point but this is it.

---

Spoilers might be out. Not sure. Go find out...

[GDB]

Naruto's fully embracing the whole Friendship-no-Jutsu thing. And he's kind of being a dick, looking into Obito's memories and quoting Rin.

I like it, but my god was is slow.

[james0246]

So boring. Boring boring boring boring. Blah blah blah. This entire chapter could have been done in 5 pages, if that. Naruto's a dick (and I still don't think he is really comparable to Obito), and Obito is the worlds biggest submissive pansy for no reason. Please let Madara appear and just destroy Obito, that's the only way this insipid mess can even be partially redeemed (and no, Obito saying "No" will not save this mess, it'll only continue our torture).

[Hisoka??]

How can obito claim to have surpassed everything and be "god" when his thoughts and memories can be so easily trespassed?

[janipani]

Well that's some talk no jutsu right there!

[Ulquiorra]

I predict...this will not be a popular chapter with the fandom. An entire chapter dedicated to TnJ with rehashed ideals and more Obito/Rin nonsense.

Funny, I see fans on other forums saying Naruto did not come off well this chapter.

Really, the only entertaining thing about this chapter is watching the NaruSaku and NaruHina fans fight each. Which is funny, because if anyone is Rin, it is Shikamaru with his wanting to stand by/watch over Naruto as he becomes Hokage love confession.

[ranchan13]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

because if anyone is Rin, it is Shikamaru with his wanting to stand by/watch over Naruto as he becomes Hokage love confession.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh man, I think you just made it clear who I should be rooting for over Hinata with that one.
And yeah, Naruto's a dick in this chapter, but I like that attitude in him. It's about time we get a third dimension to his character.

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Really, the only entertaining thing about this chapter is watching the NaruSaku and NaruHina fans fight each. Which is funny, because if anyone is Rin, it is Shikamaru with his wanting to stand by/watch over Naruto as he becomes Hokage love confession.

Honestly, the only ships that have, like, a legit character development in this manga are the gay ships I still can't believe Kishi is trying to sell NaruSaku/NaruHina when NaruSuke (is that word right ?) is so blatantly obvious.

It has EVERYTHING that a romance can/should have.

[Kyero Fox]

Yeeea-no get your head out of the Yaoi/Yuri hole. XP

Hinata and Sakura have stated several times like Rin.

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Yeeea-no get your head out of the Yaoi/Yuri hole. XP

Hinata and Sakura have stated several times like Rin.

Hey, it ain't my fault. Kishi has stuffed all that gay in there. The only thing remaining is for them to kiss - oh wait


On a more serious note, stating something is pointless if there is no chemistry between the characters. And quite honestly, there is absolutely none in any of those two ships.

[itachi29al]

Id rather not have Naruto save the day with a pep talk. I don't like how the villains in series are suddenly redeemable. This might be the reason i am huge fan of characters like Deidara, Hidan, and Kakuzu, because thus far they are the only villains that have had redemption through pep-talk when you think about it. I mean this whole villain turing a leaf in the end worked with charcters like Zabuza and Gaara but not it just getting annoying.Look at it

Sasori- Redeemed through a pep talk from Kankuro
Konan- Redeemed when Naruto redeemed Nagato
Nagato- Redeemed in like one chapter through random talk concerning Jariya
Orochimaru- Seems like even he's not such a bad guy any more( despite basically being the incarnation of evil in the first series.)
Kisame- Eeeeh, maybe not completely redeemed but then again he was never really evil more altruistic. Still they made sure he appeared like good person when he died, but a more forgivable offense.
Sasuke- Hard to say but dosn't seem like the homicidal dick he used to be. Then again the extremeness of his fall to evil (not talk when he left to orochimaru but they way he acted post-itachi death)
Danzo- Died as sympathetic character..but yet again not sure he was really a villain. Not good person by any means, but more brutally pragmatic.
Itachi- I suppose more forgivable as he did not really have redemption per say, as he was never bad person, but still it was redemption in the reader mind. But since it was pretty important plot point and dint exactly come out of nowhere, i mean i always suspected their was something up with him, it would have been fine on its own, but an addition to others mentioned, it just adds to this ridiculous trend.
Kabuto- Died having a level of redemption and slightly sympathetic death.
And now we have obito, and with Madaara newly revealed bromance the 1rst im sure he will die a redeemable man too, a shame because he was starting to look like one of the first truely evil villains.
Im not saying i dont want the villains to have complexity, but when they do 360 right before the die it ruins the complexity that is built up and make their motives seem trivial and childish. It also belittle the horrible acts they did. And this series just wont a villain be a villain with few exceptions. I understand giving them complex and able to be related to motives help us relate to the charcter, but given the horrendous acts their committing the motive need to be pretty strong, not just trivial ideas that a spiky orange haired kid can pep-talk you out of.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Really, the only entertaining thing about this chapter is watching the NaruSaku and NaruHina fans fight each. Which is funny, because if anyone is Rin, it is Shikamaru with his wanting to stand by/watch over Naruto as he becomes Hokage love confession.

Honestly, Naruto was Rin in this chapter (His words were even mimiced by Rin in flashback). And that makes Obito Sasuke.

[Ushio the Omega]

Originally Posted by itachi29al

Id rather not have Naruto save the day with a pep talk. I don't like how the villains in series are suddenly redeemable. This might be the reason i am huge fan of characters like Deidara, Hidan, and Kakuzu, because thus far they are the only villains that have had redemption through pep-talk when you think about it. I mean this whole villain turing a leaf in the end worked with charcters like Zabuza and Gaara but not it just getting annoying.Look at it

Sasori- Redeemed through a pep talk from Kankuro
Konan- Redeemed when Naruto redeemed Nagato
Nagato- Redeemed in like one chapter through random talk concerning Jariya
Orochimaru- Seems like even he's not such a bad guy any more( despite basically being the incarnation of evil in the first series.)
Kisame- Eeeeh, maybe not completely redeemed but then again he was never really evil more altruistic. Still they made sure he appeared like good person when he died, but a more forgivable offense.
Sasuke- Hard to say but dosn't seem like the homicidal dick he used to be. Then again the extremeness of his fall to evil (not talk when he left to orochimaru but they way he acted post-itachi death)
Danzo- Died as sympathetic character..but yet again not sure he was really a villain. Not good person by any means, but more brutally pragmatic.
Itachi- I suppose more forgivable as he did not really have redemption per say, as he was never bad person, but still it was redemption in the reader mind. But since it was pretty important plot point and dint exactly come out of nowhere, i mean i always suspected their was something up with him, it would have been fine on its own, but an addition to others mentioned, it just adds to this ridiculous trend.
Kabuto- Died having a level of redemption and slightly sympathetic death.
And now we have obito, and with Madaara newly revealed bromance the 1rst im sure he will die a redeemable man too, a shame because he was starting to look like one of the first truely evil villains.
Im not saying i dont want the villains to have complexity, but when they do 360 right before the die it ruins the complexity that is built up and make their motives seem trivial and childish. It also belittle the horrible acts they did. And this series just wont a villain be a villain with few exceptions. I understand giving them complex and able to be related to motives help us relate to the charcter, but given the horrendous acts their committing the motive need to be pretty strong, not just trivial ideas that a spiky orange haired kid can pep-talk you out of.

Kabuto isn't dead he's just in Izanami which is escapable.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by itachi29al

Id rather not have Naruto save the day with a pep talk. I don't like how the villains in series are suddenly redeemable. This might be the reason i am huge fan of characters like Deidara, Hidan, and Kakuzu, because thus far they are the only villains that have had redemption through pep-talk when you think about it. I mean this whole villain turing a leaf in the end worked with charcters like Zabuza and Gaara but not it just getting annoying.Look at it

Sasori- Redeemed through a pep talk from Kankuro
Konan- Redeemed when Naruto redeemed Nagato
Nagato- Redeemed in like one chapter through random talk concerning Jariya
Orochimaru- Seems like even he's not such a bad guy any more( despite basically being the incarnation of evil in the first series.)
Kisame- Eeeeh, maybe not completely redeemed but then again he was never really evil more altruistic. Still they made sure he appeared like good person when he died, but a more forgivable offense.
Sasuke- Hard to say but dosn't seem like the homicidal dick he used to be. Then again the extremeness of his fall to evil (not talk when he left to orochimaru but they way he acted post-itachi death)
Danzo- Died as sympathetic character..but yet again not sure he was really a villain. Not good person by any means, but more brutally pragmatic.
Itachi- I suppose more forgivable as he did not really have redemption per say, as he was never bad person, but still it was redemption in the reader mind. But since it was pretty important plot point and dint exactly come out of nowhere, i mean i always suspected their was something up with him, it would have been fine on its own, but an addition to others mentioned, it just adds to this ridiculous trend.
Kabuto- Died having a level of redemption and slightly sympathetic death.
And now we have obito, and with Madaara newly revealed bromance the 1rst im sure he will die a redeemable man too, a shame because he was starting to look like one of the first truely evil villains.
Im not saying i dont want the villains to have complexity, but when they do 360 right before the die it ruins the complexity that is built up and make their motives seem trivial and childish. It also belittle the horrible acts they did. And this series just wont a villain be a villain with few exceptions. I understand giving them complex and able to be related to motives help us relate to the charcter, but given the horrendous acts their committing the motive need to be pretty strong, not just trivial ideas that a spiky orange haired kid can pep-talk you out of.

Deidera not even evil he just wants to show off his art and thats really it he's not evil either the others are it. The villians need to be villians these guys arent evil and its kinda annoying

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by itachi29al

Id rather not have Naruto save the day with a pep talk. I don't like how the villains in series are suddenly redeemable.

The moment it was revealed that Tobi is Obito it was clear that he won't just die as some boring evil boss like Hidan or Kakuzu. He's more than that. He was there in the manga from the very beginning, because Kakashi quoted his words and lived with Obito's ideals and he did teach these ideals to team 7. Kishimoto just completely reversed this character to make him the next interesting final villain by making of Obito a completely failed and broken older Naruto. Also we have the usual pattern again, that was used so many times before: where the older generation fails the new succeeds, more precisely Naruto succeeds where the people before him failed. Naruto will succeed where Minato failed, where Hashirama failed, where Obito failed and finally where the Sage of 6 paths failed. That is how he becomes the ultimate hero of the manga. Kishimoto is simply following the path he was walking on in the entire manga, the difference is only that in each step things happen on a larger scale, so if someone was annoyed with his writing a few years ago then now he is even more annoyed

Just look at how the villains changed after their big fight and talk with Naruto:
Zabuza -> Neji -> Gaara -> Nagato -> ...

[Cael]

I liked the chapter and I don't think Naruto came off as a dick.

Yes, everyone knew Talk-no-jutsu was coming. But what I saw was a Naruto that came off as mature. A far cry from how he was introduced. He's not as naive or puzzled anymore. He's becoming more articulate in his TnJ, showing off more insight and understanding. I rather enjoyed how Obito's inner struggle was portrayed and the look in both their eyes. 'Naruto' isn't just about the battle of fists...

[GDB]

Originally Posted by james0246

Honestly, Naruto was Rin in this chapter (His words were even mimiced by Rin in flashback). And that makes Obito Sasuke.

He was repeating them, not mimicking them. He said himself he saw Obito's memories of her. He said those words purposely, it wasn't just a coincidence.

[itachi29al]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

The moment it was revealed that Tobi is Obito it was clear that he won't just die as some boring evil boss like Hidan or Kakuzu. He's more than that. He was there in the manga from the very beginning, because Kakashi quoted his words and lived with Obito's ideals and he did teach these ideals to team 7. Kishimoto just completely reversed this character to make him the next interesting final villain by making of Obito a completely failed and broken older Naruto. Also we have the usual pattern again, that was used so many times before: where the older generation fails the new succeeds, more precisely Naruto succeeds where the people before him failed. Naruto will succeed where Minato failed, where Hashirama failed, where Obito failed and finally where the Sage of 6 paths failed. That is how he becomes the ultimate hero of the manga. Kishimoto is simply following the path he was walking on in the entire manga, the difference is only that in each step things happen on a larger scale, so if someone was annoyed with his writing a few years ago then now he is even more annoyed

Just look at how the villains changed after their big fight and talk with Naruto:
Zabuza -> Neji -> Gaara -> Nagato -> ...

And occasionally a redeemable of villain is okay, sometimes it heart-warming to see someone so cold warm and change. I still think Zabuzas original death was one of the best scenes the series ever produced. Gaara change also was rather heart-warming, but after that it got out of hand. As with Neji it wasnt only Naruto pep-talk, i think learning the truth of his father played an equally large role. You see when every villain is redeemable it make any redemption just seem unrealistic, not every person is redeemable. Some people outlook, especially the older they get, will never change. I understand what Obitio is suppose to represent,and thats fine, but he does not need to be redeemed. We should definitely sympathies with him, thats fine, but we should not need to see him have redemption. Not every villain can be a darth vader, you need a few palpatine's in the mix( if that makes sense lol)

[felix]

Originally Posted by itachi29al

Id rather not have Naruto save the day with a pep talk.

They've been fighting all this time. And we all know Madara is the real "nice fight, fuck reasons" villain.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by GDB

He was repeating them, not mimicking them. He said himself he saw Obito's memories of her. He said those words purposely, it wasn't just a coincidence.

Way to take a bad joke too seriously...