Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Oh really? Not lethal at all?

Hmm... not lethal at all... Hmm...

Sorry, was thinking of the term I was going to use here...

WRONG!

As awesome as that claim looked i must add, the onscreen confirmed deaths by linker core extraction is: zero xDU

So far it has been shown to be extemely painfull and leave the target weakened for a while but as A's shown Nanoha, Fate and the drained mages survived just fine and more importantly ...the process isn't permanent, a linker core regenerates xD ...don't believe in Cyclone's crazy plot xDU

EDIT: Page claimed for P.E. Coach Signum xD

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

As awesome as that claim looked i must add, the onscreen confirmed deaths by linker core extraction is: zero xDU

So far it has been shown to be extemely painfull and leave the target weakened for a while but as A's shown Nanoha, Fate and the drained mages survived just fine and more importantly ...the process isn't permanent, a linker core regenerates xD ...don't believe in Cyclone's crazy plot xDU

Yeah, but so does the liver regenerate. Remove it completely though and it still kills you.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

As awesome as that claim looked i must add, the onscreen confirmed deaths by linker core extraction is: zero xDU

... Aki... Do NOT START.

Right now, do NOT start.

Weren't you one of the ones complaining about Veyron killing those nuns over 2 years ago?

Even though there's no on-screen proof.

So, NO.

Do NOT FUCKING START!

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Yeah, but so does the liver regenerate. Remove it completely though and it still kills you.

Mhhh... fair enough but, it was confirmed Vita didn't drained the full core out from those TSAB soldiers? Or what about when one of the masked men took Fate's core o.o? It was implied Fate got further drained than Nanoha yet she also managed to recover over the course of a week. The linker core seems to be a key uhm "organ" to use magic but not one key for the survival of the body ...the Wolkenritter are a different case tough as their existence is entirely supported by magic so ...take their cores and they go poof xDU

In any case, the stuff about Veyron isn't confirmed but is still strongly implied, he even said he did it. I admit there's also the chance he was lying but until the truth arises he's still suspicious for those murders.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Sansker

Ok, let take this back. You see what I tried to say, and fail at that I must admit, was that in the end the Numbers could not be the same level of killers than the Hückebein family if they were deal with such crimes off panel. I really don’t care about the Numbers at all but I always assume they didn’t kill people, at least the young ones, so they were forgiven rather easy. Because how else you let them go that easily? And let’s not discuss how that happens here and just follow my idea.

I see what you tried to say, and I also see that when running into an argument you couldn't counter, you backtracked amazingly fast. So let's stay on the subject of bodycount for a moment. What, to you, counts as a "confirmed" death? Bodies? 'cause that's all we have for the Hucks. And in that case...

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Wendi's kill count in this image alone is already 17. For one of the younger Cyborgs.

Originally Posted by Sansker

Back to what I was saying is that the Hückebein are not like the other antagonist that were befriend. Ok, maybe they are like the Numbers but they were not like the previous antagonist either. I mean look at the stories and you realize that Fate and the Wolkenritter were not happy murders who just went on killing dozens of people, even children, and smile about it. Fact remains we see bodies around the Hückebein when they attack Vandin, we see the three nuns Veyron kills in the church for no good reasons and we see Cypha admit she kill every single man, woman and child in a village. Later we see Thoma saying he was sorry for attacking Veyron and welcome Cypha with a smile. Is just me the one who finds this odd? Well, even so, it is odd and is my point to show Thoma is not really a good protagonist as he is right now just going with that idea because is the Nanoha thing and not for better reasons.

There is when I have problems with Thoma. He doesn’t develop his idea and just go with the whole: I owe this killers so much and I want to make them my friends. I can get behind he feels he has to be grateful, I can understand he sees some good in them even with all their crimes, what I can’t take is his attitude towards them. He acts like they were close friends that just went away for their own reasons and not criminals he sees with a chance of redemption. I just say he needs to make his act more believable, because right now he looks like a perfect idiot. Worse part? If the Hückebein somehow end evil I am sure he will be shock to learn they tried to use him.

But that's.... pretty much how Nanoha's treated everyone she saved as well. And nobody's giving her any flak over it either.

Don't get me wrong, Thoma being buddy-buddy with the Hucks definitely weirds me out as well, but I keep seeing people say this is different from the other Nanoha series when it really isn't.

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

As awesome as that claim looked i must add, the onscreen confirmed deaths by linker core extraction is: zero xDU

So far it has been shown to be extemely painfull and leave the target weakened for a while but as A's shown Nanoha, Fate and the drained mages survived just fine and more importantly ...the process isn't permanent, a linker core regenerates xD ...don't believe in Cyclone's crazy plot xDU

There is a difference between Linker Core draining and Linker Core removing. Nanoha had her core drained, but still present. Those beasts that the knights hunted had their cores removed, and none of those looked much alive.

[Nanya01]

To Aki, Sansker...

Here's the challenge for you.

Go through A's anime, manga and Sound stages...

And find evidence where it says draining a linker core to nothing is not fatal.

Find that, I'll double check, and if you're right, I'll believe you and apologize for what I said earlier.

[Akiyoshi]

How about finding evidence that explicity says draining a linker core to nothing IS fatal xDU

Seriously, it can go both ways, FanFiction can do as they wishes and make it lethal anyway so why the complain o.o?

Nanoha A's was pretty tame with lethal stuff, only impliying things and having the Wolkenritter background as killers. It's interesting how StrikerS, being much darker, never brought anything about Linker core removal (again, some doujin/fanfic writers stretched things a wee bit too far from canon) and by the time FORCE takes place it's barely mentioned at all (in fact do someone remeber any mention of a linker core in FORCE? i would like to know xDU).

Linker Core draining was a convenient way to "defeat" or "injure" a character without, you know, really injuring or killng it xDU Kinda like the "Shadow Realm" in Yu-Gi-Oh! xDU

[Nanya01]

"Shadow Realm" was done by 4Kids for the most part, Aki. They really died in the Japanese anime. Get your facts straight.

And, no, I'm putting the burden of proof on you, this time, Aki.

Find evidence that specifically states that losing a Linker Core is not fatal.

Edit: I just realized something...

Hayate was dying, the book was sapping at her magic (Linker Core) to sustain the knights and her body was shutting down, throughout A's...

And Nanoha and Fate both passed out instantly after their Linker Cores were drained (Nanoha had trouble walking without assistance right away even).

and wasn't it said that in strikerS that Nanoha lost her ability to walk and use magic because she over-stressed her Linker Core over the years?

...

So, in conclusion to the above facts, my hypothesis is this...

The body basically shuts down to keep the Linker Core alive.

[Akiyoshi]

I'm totally aware of the Shadow Realm being a 4-kids thing, but it work as an example. If you want a japanese example take Yu-Gi-Oh! GX where tons of academy students suppossedly "killed" were in reality sent to another dimension xDU

Crippling is not the same as lethal, but yeah i'm kind of stretching things by this point. Still i stick to my stance since no definitive proof of that has been brought in canon xDU

Back on topic, being injured by EC weaponry seems to lack any effect against the Linker Core's health. Hayate's injuries were trated normally and the fact Signum even managed to survive seems to indicate their cores are safe.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Crippling is not the same as lethal, but yeah i'm kind of stretching things by this point. Still i stick to my stance since no definitive proof of that has been brought in canon xDU

Hayate was DYING, Aki.

Her organs were being paralyzed.

And, I asked you to get me proof that the Linker Core being drained to nothing is not lethal. Not your opinion, PROOF from the series, creator comments, booklets, ETC.

[Akiyoshi]

and i ask the same from you but since neither of us are willing/able to do that i think this particular discussion just got pointless.

[Archon_Wing]

The infamous Shirou quote was a subbing oddity and really has little meaning, though I guess it's sorta ironic. It was intensified with DEEN's tendency to portray him as a blabbering moron, and frankly like most things Deen "adapted", should be disregarded.

Though I suppose I never really fear anyone suffering a fatal injury in this series. At least that's not my first thought. It does feel like more of an inconvenience to have your health depleted, so it's sorta more video game damage to me. This all kinda reminds me of modern games that "defeat" or "down" the characters instead of implying you died. That's not really something I object to; it's just a simplification that equates to "you fucked up, you idiot, now go again"

It is still better than DBZ though where you go "Meh, Krillin will come back anyways". /insert Signum joke here.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

and i ask the same from you but since neither of us are willing/able to do that i think this particular discussion just got pontless.

I'm tired of being the one to have to find evidence all the time.

I'm specifically asking YOU to provide proof. You go "no, you", and even though I have pointed out, several times, things to you (as well as others), you (and Sansker) keep sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LALALALALALALALA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!! LALALALALALALALALA!!"

@ Archon: One of the reasons I don't think to highly of subs very often.

[Akiyoshi]

Yup, that was the main difference between A's and FORCE ...back then when Nanoha and Fate got defeated/drained it felt like a fainted pokemon xDU

When Signum fell, she was almost diced to pieces and injured within an inch of her live ...it's basically a miracle she's able to stand up and fight right now.

Originally Posted by Nanya01

I'm specifically asking YOU to provide proof. You go "no, you", and even though I have pointed out, several times, things to you (as well as others), you (and Sansker) keep sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LALALALALALALALA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!! LALALALALALALALALA!!"

Excuse if i had lost some of my former passion and enthusiasm when it comes to debating but every time i make a true effort to bring out canon information and detailed proof people ignore and insults me anyways so i kind of lost interest into following discussions that lead to nowhere xDU

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Excuse if i had lost some of my former passion when it comes to debating but every time i make a tru effort to bring out canon information and detailed proof people ignore and insults me anyways so i kind of lost interest into following discussions that lead to nowhere xDU

... since when? You constantly use misinformation and twist facts with your bias whenever you get into a debate. That's not a true effort, and the discussions that went nowhere were literally because of you and your actions.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

and wasn't it said that in strikerS that Nanoha lost her ability to walk and use magic because she over-stressed her Linker Core over the years?

No? Nanoha almost lost her ability to walk because she was stabbed and mauled by one of those stealth drones. The reason overstressing her Core was part of the debate was because her constant overstressing had weakened her to the point where she couldn't react fast enough at a critical time.

That does not take away, however, that overstressing a Core is bad for the health. Like any other organ, putting too much pressure on it causes failure, and like any other organ, that means the entire body suffers as a result.

[Akiyoshi]

No doubt about that Keroko (nice explanation by the way xD) but a fatality entirely provoked by Linker Core draining/extraction is yet to be seen or mentioned xDU

About those monsters, yeah they died but the also weren't waiting happily for the Knight to sustract their cores, the were beaten to near death first. Certainly gettign the cores drained in such condition did not any good to their already beaten and maimed bodies xDU

[Archon_Wing]

Wait, so is capturing a linker core like capturing a pokemon then?

[Rising Dragon]

As far as the Book of Darkness is concerned? Yes. We know Linker Cores store specific magical data within them, as per the Sound Stages. It's the main reason why Reinforce was able to access Nanoha and Fate's signature spellwork.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Wait, so is capturing a linker core like capturing a pokemon then?

...

Yuuno turns into a Ferret (and one Abridged series made a joke about Chrono pushing the B button when he tried to turn back, stopping it)

So...

The Book of Darkness is the Master Ball then?