[Manga] Chapter 375 Discussion

[Sazelyt]

Ha ha ha, let's remove all the tailed beasts then, and reduce the story to the level of one on one street fights.

[ChojinLocke]

Good idea Sazelyt. The best thing you ever said in the forum.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Indeed, also glad to see Konan was useful.

[ChojinLocke]

Konan is Tobi number 2. With Tobi everyone was jumping coz at the other side was sasuke who most people tend to love fro the bottom of their hearts. Konan the paperian has a much better reception.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by ChojinLocke

.

Spoiler for death god:

Where was it mentioned..The Hokage has possession of the scrolls and hides them where he sees fit to do so. He is the leader of his people and all secrets are stored with him/her.

Maybe I asked the question and you did not understand it:

Where was it mentioned that the Scroll can only be viewed by the Hokage?

To shun your little assumption here:

In company were classified Information is handled (and I work in one), there are documents that are classified and there is a group of people designated that safe keep these documents, however that doesn’t mean they are the only persons that have access to the information. Heck in some cases the safekeeper have no access themselves to the information contained in these documents.

We only know the Hokage is the safe keeper of the Scroll, not that they are the only one that can read it, or for that matter a rule were he cant show those to senior Shinobies.

Jiraya has not read forbidden jutsu because nobody has read the jutsu and they only read them when there is a catastrophe involved theatening the existence of the village.

Were was this mentioned???

The Scroll of forbidden Jutsu is just a scroll that have all the forbidden Jutsus of Konoha, and the danger to it is that it can fall in the hands of people that could misuse it, nothing has been said that it can only be used when Armagedon come knocking on the door.

Naruto knows the jutsu because he stole the scrolls. Jiraya never stole them and didnt read them because he has no right to read them (for all we know he doesnt have a clue where the scrolls are hidden currently with Tsunade hokage).

He has no right to read the scroll? Could you tell me when was that mentioned?

And please, Jiriaya doesn’t know were the scroll is?, when Tiger Misuki knew their location?

As for who is next in line etc...the scrolls pass automatically to the next hokage along with potentially other useful secrets some of which we might not have learned yet.

That doesn’t mean however, that the information inside there is only for the hokage to see.

Oh and lets return to your logic of kage bunshins. Lets say I am kage bunshin of person A who is outside of the jutsu the jutsu requires the summoner to have a soul to be taken therefore a kage bunshin cannot do this jutsu since it is soulless. And the victim is also soulless since you imply a kage bunshin vs kage bunshin. Therefore the jutsu fails. For all we know the Fourth developed it out of his mind in the heat of the battle then wrote it in a scroll and handed it to the third then went and sealed kyubi.

Ermmm, Sandaime used Kage Bushin to seal 2 Hokages; in the moment the death god devours the Hokages, we see a set of 4 Souls been devoured.

While I don’t know how the heck Yondaime developed the Jutsu, using Kage Bushin is an explanation that doesn’t contradict anything at all.

Jiraya might have the power to do the jutsu but he hasnt read it because...it is not his property partial or full. Therefore he does not know the jutsu (yet or ever).

Again, I still don’t know were are you getting that the scroll are the only place were this Jutsu could be on, Tell me, how did Jiraiya got his hands on the Key?? So, in essence, what are the odds of Yondaime giving the Key to Jiraiya, but also the instructions on how to do the Death God Jutsu.?

Very high.

I really dont understand what you are arguing about..

Scrolls belong to Hokage - he can read them

Naruto steals scrolls - he was lucky to pull jutsu off (scenario)

Jiraya never in contact with the scrolls - do the math.

Oh sorry..he was not in contact with the scrolls..one fine day the Fourth said to Jiraya..hey my friend im gonna tell you about a new jutsu..watch out oz it kills you eh? ok here we go..kage bunshinnnnnnn -- revert back to kage bunshin fallacy

The basic flaw here is simple, you have two/tree assumptions that you have absolutely nothing to backed it up with, and you are using them as facts:

A)The Death God Jutsu is only in the scroll of the forbidden Jutsu.

B) The Scroll of forbidden Jutsu can only be read by the Hokages, and Thus Jiraiya has not read such Scroll.


Everything here is your invention, not a fact, so very much, it could be the totally opposite of what you are saying:

A) There is more than one place where the Death God Summon instruction are written in.

B) The Scroll of forbidden Jutsus can be read by a select group of Konoha Shinobies, and one of those is Jiraiya.

now, try to use some fact for that matter, and negate this points…You cant, because, neither one or the other is a stated fact, so either one or the other can be correct, but the second line has a higher possibility because it gives the author the flexibility of using this in the future, without having the problem of contradiction.

[ChojinLocke]

If the Death god jutsu was in any other place apart from the forbidden scrolls then Orochimaru would know of it.

The scroll of forbidden jutsu can be read by anyone (even naruto read them). But Jiraya cannot have read them because of lack of access not lack of ability.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by ChojinLocke

If the Death god jutsu was in any other place apart from the forbidden scrolls then Orochimaru would know of it.

Huh??? Just like the Key???? There are ways to create different documents without the need for it to get to Oros Hands.

Yondaime could very well have sent every information regarding Kyuby, The Key, Naruto and the Death God to Jiraiya as means to prepare for something much bigger. As I said before, if Yondaime gave the Key to Jriiaya, I don’t see why not the Death God Jutsu.

The scroll of forbidden jutsu can be read by anyone (even naruto read them). But Jiraya cannot have read them because of lack of access not lack of ability.

Not necessarily, Jiraiya enters and leaves Konoha as he pleases, he do things of panels that we later on know trough flashbacks. and as I said also before, you don’t know who can have access to the scrolls.

BTW, I’m playing along with the assumption that the Death God Jutsu is on the forbidden scroll, we don’t really know that.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by ChojinLocke

Good idea Sazelyt. The best thing you ever said in the forum.

It is good to know there are people who can praise even the stupidest ideas...

[shaselai]

Interesting chapter.. But unless Jiraiya actually damages/fights Pein it is useless how many summons he kills with his new mode. Maybe one of the frogs can detect Pein? I guess this is one of those scenarios where they show how powerful the other guy(Jiraiya) is before he get totally owned. The frogs in the shadows looked kinda like hand puppets.. it would be funny if they really are

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by shaselai

Interesting chapter.. But unless Jiraiya actually damages/fights Pein it is useless how many summons he kills with his new mode. Maybe one of the frogs can detect Pein? I guess this is one of those scenarios where they show how powerful the other guy(Jiraiya) is before he get totally owned. The frogs in the shadows looked kinda like hand puppets.. it would be funny if they really are

Hold your breath since this battle isnt going to be decided by a fatal blow...it's going to be:
- who's chakra will be reduced to 0 and dies because of that.

After hours it'll be:

Jiraiya - Just one more jutsu!
Pein - Hah i still have chakra for 3 more jutsu's!

[tatami]

they fight without summons yo critisize it being dbz , they got summons you critisize it being pokemon...what the hell do you want anyway?


summon fight is an indication of power level of the fight imo. it was this way before and will be this way tooo.i didnt hear anythink when sannin got their precious pokemons in fight and everyone was happy?

some people just know what a womens period is.

[ChojinLocke]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

It is good to know there are people who can praise even the stupidest ideas...

I dont think your idea was stupid but if you insist then I pass.

Spoiler for Rurik:

Edit: @ Rurik

The key to Naruto and the death jutsu are 2 different things arent they? I mean I am not arguing that Jiraya cannot learn the jutsu or anything. I am saying he didnt yet because there was no need (emergency) to do so (be given the responisibility by the village chief) yet. I hope you see the point I make here. Even if I cannot prove he has no access to the forbiddden scrolls via text in manga (which is your argument right?) I also can say you have no proof to back up the claim he has access to the forbidden scrolls via text in the manga. Therefore I represent the null since these scrolls are labeled 'FORBIDDEN'.

Drawing correlation between the Key and the Death Jutsu is really not a point you can make you back up your argument because for all we know he gave jiraya the key out of some special thing about frogs for example (who knows- so many ifs)

[Sazelyt]

The translations are not clear. Those two summons can be Bunta's parents, though they are too small to be a parent of that gigantic monster, even overgrown wouldn't save the situation.

[cuttups]

This might be too similar to Sasori but maybe the old Rain kage is one of Pein's bodies.

[chord]

Know one knows how he sealed it inside of Naruto, that's why there was so much speculation about Naruto being the 4th Hokage.
But I think if we watch we know the Hokage have to know at least 100 jutsu before they can become Hokage. The fouth Hokage was a master of Genjutsu and of Ninjutsu and ontop of that he was the fastest ninja to ever live. Naruto's weakness is Genjutsu and extreme speed right? Maybe he did it by using a combination of genjutsu and extreme speed to weaken the fox and then he did the reaper seal grabbing Naruto because its said that th 3rd hokage watched the 4th hokage do it and that's how he learned it. Maybe he sent a shadow clone to the 3rd hokage and to Jeriyah and to kikashi to let them know what he was doing and how he did it to begin with so that way if the fox ever escaped which it time it will. They can reseal it back inside of Naruto.

[Adediran242]

Originally Posted by tatami

they fight without summons yo critisize it being dbz , they got summons you critisize it being pokemon...what the hell do you want anyway?


summon fight is an indication of power level of the fight imo. it was this way before and will be this way tooo.i didnt hear anythink when sannin got their precious pokemons in fight and everyone was happy?

some people just know what a womens period is.

I have to agree!! jeez some people are never satisfied...

P.S. does anyone know where I can actually read chapter 375?

[Monkey D. Luffy]

Well the chapter ended intresting enough, seeing how it seems that Jiraiya had to go into that mode which looks pretty strange but we only saw an outline. There's something going on with Pein only using summons other than he probably wants to end this fight as easy as possible. I really want to know what Jiraiya can do and what he looks like in this new form.

People need to stop complaining about it being a Pokemon battle because it isn't, they'll start pulling out other jutsus soon enough.

[Ero-Senn1n]

It may be that Pein underestimates Jiraiya, he wants to defeat him using only summons to show that he does not have to get serious to defeat Jiraiya. I believe Jiraiya will force Pein to take this battle seriously.

There is a part where Jiraiya talks about 6 elemental jutsu, or maybe it's a mistranslation.

[0TaKu0]

Not bad, not bad! Pretty decent chapter, at least most of my speculations came true. There is no doubt in my mind Jiraiya changed him self in to a frog, most likely is the same size as them which could explain why all three frogs look to be the same size. By the dialog if the translation is 100% full proof those two frogs are most likely Bunta's parents (I'm sure most of you have speculated the same), It would not be surprising to think so because we don’t know how old Bunta is, and Gamakichi being his son was as tiny as a original frog, will most likely one day grow up to be as large as his father. If they are Bunta's parents, their age could explain the shape and form of their small bodies, I mean when people get old you know as their body tends to become shorter, smaller, and more humble like stature, my guess would be they are both as old as the third but in frog / summoned creature years. While Gamakichi is the same age as Naruto, and Bunta is the same age as Jiraiya / Tsunade (in frog / summoned creature years). None the less, they seem to be fully robed the papa seems to have a pointy back flap serving as a collar while the mama seems to have a rounded one. However, it seems to be a merger as I originally mentioned (rather then the frogs standing behind Jiraiya) I think right now Jiraiya is a three headed frog hermit, the hint was when the Mama says,

"Mama toad: By the way, boy...
Didn't you say that you hate this form
'cuz you think the girls won't like it?"

So I'm still sticking to my merger speculation, this could also explain the size, I mean for all we know Jiraiya is still his normal size and, due to the merge so are the frogs or, Jiraiya is fucking huge right now so are the frogs.

In terms of Pain, there are a few possibilities that I have. One being my original one those summoned creatures being his own creation with the help of the Rinnegan. Two being his body (the one he is currently using) was specifically made for summoning techniques only, which can explain why that is all he is using. I mean sure it could be as simple as Pain underestimates Jiraiya, but when you have an arsenal of any ninjutsu ever created / available (according to Jiraiya) it doesn’t make any sense why summons are all you would use even if you did underestimate your opponent. Three, Pain is using Combination Henge to change the form of his original summon (EX: Naruto and Bunta) or, something more advanced (due to the dog splitting up which kind of contradicts a simple Henge) to change the form of his original summon over and over with the power of the Rinnegan. The part that left me with a question is, Pain has control over 6 different chakra manipulation . . . what’s the 6th one? Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, Lightning . . . ? Yin and Yang is the only other guess that comes to mind, since they are two part of one whole it would count as one. If I'm correct about Pains eyes really being the end all, be all, "Life and Death", "Creation and Destruction" then most likely it has something to do with the 6th nature manipulation that is allowing him to do this, using nothing but summoned creatures and, so many different kinds at that in terms of the three speculations I made. We will just have to wait and see, good chapter none the less.

[neoeagle]

nice fight.J-man never bores me.I like his style.