[Manga] Chapter 375 Discussion

[Jameel11435]

Originally Posted by BlackShinobi07

Since this may be Jiraiyas final days in Naruto, i hope we'll see some flash backs of him and Minato training or meeting or something involving those two. With all the recent revalations it would nice if some light is shed on their relationship. Like maybe he could see Pein as a failed student and flash back to his perfect student in Mintao. IDK, just throwing ideas out there.

...dats a shame...jiraiya is my fave character...hopefully this technique used in chapter 375 will beat them...they seem to be hypin it up so yu never kno...

[tatami]

go tsunade back up j man! i wanna see a cat fight too

[EoT]

So I guess Jiraiya is going all out and when someone does that in this series it usually leads to their death which can be referred back to so many characters

[tatami]

still people think j man is a goner???

what pein is a god now? he is running the show? if there is anybody who can take pain out, that is jiraiya...not tsunade not kakashi not naruto.

and i think its time for pain to die that tobi can shine as the true leader.

pein killing j man is more than meaningless ,but jiraiya killing pein will lead story go on.


naruto going berserk and killing pein is not something going to happen.

[Psychotic]

Maybe sixth chakra is somekind of "dark" chakra, something like Shikamaru uses. Shadow jutsu has never been mentioned as bloodline limit?

[Goshin]

there is something that doesn't add for me.

jiraiya said something like this to the frogs : can't help it, our opponent is the rinnegan.

one of them answers : rikoudous eyes huh, didn't think they existed.

rikoudou's name was mentioned so casually as if they knew him. but yet they did not know his eye existed?

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by tatami

still people think j man is a goner???

what pein is a god now? he is running the show? if there is anybody who can take pain out, that is jiraiya...not tsunade not kakashi not naruto.

and i think its time for pain to die that tobi can shine as the true leader.

pein killing j man is more than meaningless ,but jiraiya killing pein will lead story go on.

Jiraiya is a popular supporting character, but he is also outside the core group that this story is focusing on--namely the young shinobi of Konoha. In Part I, strong characters like Jiraiya and Sandaime handled the heavy hitters. Part II is about the rise of the young folk. That's why you have shinobi like Sakura, Shikamaru, Naruto and Sasuke facing and defeating Akatsuki. It's their time. The older generation still play an important part in battle, but it is now more to support the young guys. They rarely score the major victories alone anymore.

Also, I think you should review what the plot has set up here:

- First, Jiraiya starts reminiscing about the past. He and Tsunade start getting unusually sentimental then start revealing major secrets about Naruto's origins.

- Tsunade, who has an impressive record of the men closest to her dying (only Naruto has been spared so far) openly starts to worry about Jiraiya. Even the confident J-man himself, remarks that this mission could very well be suicidal.

- Jiraiya reveals a key that can unlock Naruto's powers; a key he states that Naruto was always intended to receive sooner or later. Then states that Naruto gets this key in the event that he is defeated and/or killed. Message: Jiraiya dies and Naruto gets a power-up.

To me, there hasn't been foreshadowing this obvious since Asuma was set up to die. All we really need is to see Tsunade win a slot machine game, and Jiraiya can be considered good as dead.

But even ignoring all that, Pein has six bodies. I can see Jiraiya managing to defeat one. But can you honestly see Jiraiya fighting five more Peins and winning? I wouldn't sigh relief just because Jiraiya seems to be holding his own right now, battles teeter-totter several times before they come to a conclusion.

[That Other Ninja]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Jiraiya is a popular supporting character, but he is also outside the core group that this story is focusing on--namely the young shinobi of Konoha. In Part I, strong characters like Jiraiya and Sandaime handled the heavy hitters. Part II is about the rise of the young folk. That's why you have shinobi like Sakura, Shikamaru, Naruto and Sasuke facing and defeating Akatsuki. It's their time. The older generation still play an important part in battle, but it is now more to support the young guys. They rarely score the major victories alone anymore.

Also, I think you should review what the plot has set up here:

- First, Jiraiya starts reminiscing about the past. He and Tsunade start getting unusually sentimental then start revealing major secrets about Naruto's origins.

- Tsunade, who has an impressive record of the men closest to her dying (only Naruto has been spared so far) openly starts to worry about Jiraiya. Even the confident J-man himself, remarks that this mission could very well be suicidal.

- Jiraiya reveals a key that can unlock Naruto's powers; a key he states that Naruto was always intended to receive sooner or later. Then states that Naruto gets this key in the event that he is defeated and/or killed. Message: Jiraiya dies and Naruto gets a power-up.

To me, there hasn't been foreshadowing this obvious since Asuma was set up to die. All we really need is to see Tsunade win a slot machine game, and Jiraiya can be considered good as dead.

But even ignoring all that, Pein has six bodies. I can see Jiraiya managing to defeat one. But can you honestly see Jiraiya fighting five more Peins and winning? I wouldn't sigh relief just because Jiraiya seems to be holding his own right now, battles teeter-totter several times before they come to a conclusion.

All of that is assuming that the fight will even draw a conclusion. There may be interruptions or fleeing on one end.

[tatami]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Jiraiya is a popular supporting character, but he is also outside the core group that this story is focusing on--namely the young shinobi of Konoha. In Part I, strong characters like Jiraiya and Sandaime handled the heavy hitters. Part II is about the rise of the young folk. That's why you have shinobi like Sakura, Shikamaru, Naruto and Sasuke facing and defeating Akatsuki. It's their time. The older generation still play an important part in battle, but it is now more to support the young guys. They rarely score the major victories alone anymore.

Also, I think you should review what the plot has set up here:

- First, Jiraiya starts reminiscing about the past. He and Tsunade start getting unusually sentimental then start revealing major secrets about Naruto's origins.

- Tsunade, who has an impressive record of the men closest to her dying (only Naruto has been spared so far) openly starts to worry about Jiraiya. Even the confident J-man himself, remarks that this mission could very well be suicidal.

- Jiraiya reveals a key that can unlock Naruto's powers; a key he states that Naruto was always intended to receive sooner or later. Then states that Naruto gets this key in the event that he is defeated and/or killed. Message: Jiraiya dies and Naruto gets a power-up.

To me, there hasn't been foreshadowing this obvious since Asuma was set up to die. All we really need is to see Tsunade win a slot machine game, and Jiraiya can be considered good as dead.

But even ignoring all that, Pein has six bodies. I can see Jiraiya managing to defeat one. But can you honestly see Jiraiya fighting five more Peins and winning? I wouldn't sigh relief just because Jiraiya seems to be holding his own right now, battles teeter-totter several times before they come to a conclusion.

yes I totally agree that, old gen next gen stuff and revealing past is apossible death of a character but pein is not like orochimaru and j man is not like asuma you know...

i may be true my love for the char shadows my perception but jiraiya is too much of a character to be killed by a 1 arc character like pain...if it was tobi that he was facing i would have no doubt about him dying but pein is just a 2nd character now...and he had to be replaced by tobi somehow.

yes jiraiyas past revealed but so does peins too...its an equal situation for both of them and one of them will die for sure...

but i dont see naruto gets his power up...not for killing pein. he is too much to handle for naruto dont you think? and naruto again haviung a kyubi power up is lamer than ever?what now? he will be more kyubified? more raw power? another rasengan? i really dont see it

and think that kishi always does the misleading trick...

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja

All of that is assuming that the fight will even draw a conclusion. There may be interruptions or fleeing on one end.

I doubt that. Jiraiya is a lot like Naruto, he finishes the fight. Remember the flashback to the fight with Hanzou? Jiraiya still wanted to fight despite Hanzou having beat himself, Tsunade and Oro (and himself being in the worse shape to fight). And the stakes of the outcome of that battle weren't nearly as high as the outcome of this battle.

I think Jiraiya will give it everything he has.

Pein leaving is more likely, but I doubt he would just allow Jiraiya to remain in his territory.

Originally Posted by tatami

i may be true my love for the char shadows my perception but jiraiya is too much of a character to be killed by a 1 arc character like pain...if it was tobi that he was facing i would have no doubt about him dying but pein is just a 2nd character now...and he had to be replaced by tobi somehow.

Just because Pein isn't the true leader doesn't mean he's not that important. Itachi is important and he's just one of Tobi's pawns as well. Likewise with Oro, he killed a character as important and powerful as Sandaime, only to be revealed later that he was once part of an organization of shinobi all just as dangerous (or more) as he is. So Jiraiya getting killed by Pein doesn't really ruin his image. You can already see the parallels between Sandaime/Oro, Jiraiya/Pein.

And even though Pein seems ridiculously out of Naruto's league, Naruto will eventually get powerful enough to face him.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by ChojinLocke

Spoiler for reply:

If you see Jiraya dying from Pein without using the technique in question would that prove my point to you or would you still have doubts? Last time I post to reply to this topic i suggest the mod transferring to a new topic coz i think it's interesting in iteslf.

edit: I will edit the reply tomorrow it is really late now to think.

huh??? If Jiraiya die without using this Jutsu, it would prove nothing....that’s a very bad logic.

Is like saying that Zabuza did not knew how to use Kawarami...because he did not use it before dying!

Either way, don’t get me wrong, I doubt Jiraiya knows Death God jutsu, my problem is not if you think he does not know, is what you are using to defend such claim, in this case, a degree of information that you are either inventing, or using incorrectly.

[Ichimaru]

JMAN fighting 6 peins

back to itachis quote, his first encounter with jman where him and kisame will be lucky to get out of alive or end in a draw even if there was more members

but here his not just fighting any 5 members of akatsuki, but 6 peins...

[tatami]

we even dont know if he can use 6 bodies at the same time.

[iBeast]

Pain is too dangerous....At 10 using/mastering all the essential jutsus.....

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by tatami

i may be true my love for the char shadows my perception but jiraiya is too much of a character to be killed by a 1 arc character like pain...if it was tobi that he was facing i would have no doubt about him dying but pein is just a 2nd character now...and he had to be replaced by tobi somehow.

I'm sorry, not to go off topic but why? Is it because "Madobi" has the Sharingan and the MS? or, is it because you believe he is the real leader? You might want to ask your self that before you state something like you cannot see Jiraiya being defeated by Pain but if it was "Madobi" its a hands down loss for Jiraiya? Personally I don’t want Jiraiya to die in either of their hands but, I don’t think so, sorry to say but Pain is still and, always will be the title leader of Akatsuki, no where else does it say different or that Tobi is the leader of Akatsuki in the Manga. I'm actually surprised that people could even state such a thing without even knowing the relationship between Pain and "Madobi", in terms are they in a business relationship? Is "Madobi" giving Pain some sort of incentive or, maybe its just as simple as "Madobi" is not standing in Pains way because he could careless what Pain plans to do the world as long as his own agenda is fulfilled so, they decided to work together toward that goal. Meaning, while their goals might be different they not only do they not conflict with each other but, require that extra step to make it happen and, that extra step being getting "Madobi's" little personal vendetta out of the way. So lets not jump the gun and start stating things like "Madobi" is the real leader, when we don’t even know the real relationship between "Madobi" and Pain and why they are working together, especially lets not assume that Pain is working under "Madobi" and not together because honestly, where’s the proof ?

Personally if you asked me Pain could rip "Madobi" a new one, and don’t even try to bring that "but he has the Sharingan and the Mangekyo Sharingan" well guess what bucko, Pain has the eyes that are the most revered out of the three, and you can bet your ass he knows how to use them considering he learned all 6 chakra manipulations at the age of 10 and as an arsenal of every ninjutsu every created / exists at his disposal, not to mention all the ones he might have created him self, and who knows how many kinjutsu he might know / could have created on his own. If Rikudou created most of the ninjutsu that Shinobi use today with the Rinnegan, its not hard to believe that Pain could make some of his own as well. Lets not also forget, if "Madobi" manages to defeat one of Pains bodies, and decides to stick around Pain will just come back with another one and so on and so forth.

[Ichimaru]

if its one on one fight, then i can see jiraiya takin out a few of peins bodys before fatigue/injuries get to him, then gettin beat by remaining peins bodys...

6 on 1 at the same time will be disadvantage to jiraiya imo...

i wonder who are the dead bodies belong too....are they all ex/current clone akatsuki members? or some previous strong enemies he has defeated? it will be idealistic if one of the dead bodies is hanzou which i think is one of the bodies...

so far we have seen akat members using there final card are either ex/deceased kages...like orochimaru edo tensei 2 kages, then you got sasori and the sand kage...

[Suna no tate]

Pain is ridiculous. Just ridiculous. I honestly can't believe any sharingan user can top him. I don't see why he needs a nuke to get anything done when he has serious serious skills. I also don't really see why he's a big meany when he has the power to make people play nice (like sandaime).

He's a toughie having all elements, 6 bodies, and lotsa summons including an insane dog summon. Yet he takes lip from guys like hidan? go figure.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Yeah Pain seems to be pretty strong, he still takes orders from an Uchiha though. Also has seen with Manda the sharingan has ways to deal with summons.

[Endbo]

what is essential jutsus

what is the number 6 elemental chakra

[That Other Ninja]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I doubt that. Jiraiya is a lot like Naruto, he finishes the fight. Remember the flashback to the fight with Hanzou? Jiraiya still wanted to fight despite Hanzou having beat himself, Tsunade and Oro (and himself being in the worse shape to fight). And the stakes of the outcome of that battle weren't nearly as high as the outcome of this battle.

I think Jiraiya will give it everything he has.

Pein leaving is more likely, but I doubt he would just allow Jiraiya to remain in his territory.

Well we don't really know the circumstances and stakes of the fight involving Hanzou. That was during a great war, it may or may not have been personal but I doubt its more personal than this fight with Pein. I mean do you really think he wants to kill his former student? Before even knowing what happened to make him a ninja terrorist? He'll HAVE to give it all he's got, that much is almost obvious because its THE Rinnegan but with their mystery history I don't think it'll stop with a quick death, short of revealing the events leading to this. And if it does it should take a good several chapters to show us what went on.