Macross Frontier Character Discussion - Sheryl Nome

[Swampstorm]

Just out of curiosity, how does one "help" with an evacuation attempt? I was under the impression that the best way that a civilian can help in an environmentally hazardous situation is to calmly leave the premises in an orderly fashion and get as far away as possible. Even as a trained civilian first responder, one of the very first things that you're taught is to never approach an injured or unconscious patient if it is unsafe to do so. Ignoring this rationale in order to play "hero" ensures that the professionals on scene now have two people to rescue, whereas before they only needed to rescue one.

I think that the reason why people bring up the evacuation scene is because Alto comments on it. But remember that Alto isn't exactly a neutral observer in all this. He's doubly been made a fool of, first by the fact that Sheryl indirectly belittled his piloting skills, and second, that in trying to show off, he actually lived up to her criticism. This first interaction goes on to define most of the first half, in which Alto is torn between sheer admiration for Sheryl's professionalism, and the fact that she serves as a ongoing reminder that he isn't actually the pilot hero of SMS that he envisions himself/pretends to be - a role that he spends a lot of time acting out. And if Sheryl's attitude in the first few scenes offended your sensibilities just as it did his, then it isn't all that surprising to want to side with Alto's accusation ("Yeah, you heard him! Take that you... you meanie!"), even if what he's suggesting isn't a sensible course of action.

When you see somebody act differently, that doesn't always mean that they've "changed". Many times, the person who changed was you, in realizing that there's more to that person beyond your initial judgment. It's not that Sheryl suddenly became a lot nicer as the series progressed. It's that we suddenly realized that she was a lot nicer than she initially let on.

(I suppose part of this negative viewpoint of Sheryl was partially due to those falsified articles from earlier, which made the claim on behalf of the "writers" that Sheryl was initially selfish, but that her character became less so as she matured throughout the series. But as Gubaba pointed out when he debunked those "articles", people tend to believe in whatever supports their point of view.)

Don't get me wrong. Sheryl has quite a few flaws, first among which are her tendency to be a workaholic and a degree of ineptness in handling one-on-one relationships. She can also be a bit of a walking disaster zone if someone (i.e. Grace or Alto) isn't keeping an eye on her (rest in peace, Samson). But selfish? I, for one, don't really see her that way.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

in which Alto is torn between sheer admiration for Sheryl's professionalism, and the fact that she serves as a ongoing reminder that he isn't actually the pilot hero of SMS that he envisions himself/pretends to be - a role that he spends a lot of time acting out.

That one again. <sigh> Where exactly is Alto acting out a role? I mean, if you count him deceiving himself why he joins SMS, that might be one such point. But for his time in SMS, I saw all his actions as genuine.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

That one again. <sigh> Where exactly is Alto acting out a role? I mean, if you count him deceiving himself why he joins SMS, that might be one such point. But for his time in SMS, I saw all his actions as genuine.

A point I agree with you although I saw his actions more because he is impulsive and he tends to act before he thinks.

[Swampstorm]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

That one again. <sigh> Where exactly is Alto acting out a role? I mean, if you count him deceiving himself why he joins SMS, that might be one such point. But for his time in SMS, I saw all his actions as genuine.

I think that you may be reacting to the "genuine/fake" dichotomy associated with the word in much the same way that some people misread the meaning behind the "False songstress" title when the first movie came out.

I'm not suggesting that Alto was deliberately attempting to deceive himself or anyone else in "playing a role". It's a bit like when you don a particular uniform to do a job, it becomes part of your identity and necessitates a change in your conduct. Alto's trying quite hard to fit into his new identity as a pilot for SMS, but Sheryl has a tendency of disrupting all that. Alto's character development in the TV series largely revolves around a search for his identity, in usual coming-of-age style.

But this is more pertinent to a discussion on Alto's character, and is largely irrelevant to why he's so ornery towards Sheryl in the first few episodes. If you can accept that Alto's critique has more to do with his attitude towards Sheryl than it does with what she actually ought to have done, then we're on the same page as far as this thread is concerned. (Besides, I have a feeling that if I bring Yasaburo up, you'll never let this conversation end.)

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

I think that you may be reacting to the "genuine/fake" dichotomy associated with the word in much the same way that some people misread the meaning behind the "False songstress" title when the first movie came out.

I'm not suggesting that Alto was deliberately attempting to deceive himself or anyone else in "playing a role". It's a bit like when you don a particular uniform to do a job, it becomes part of your identity and necessitates a change in your conduct. Alto's trying quite hard to fit into his new identity as a pilot for SMS, but Sheryl has a tendency of disrupting all that. Alto's character development in the TV series largely revolves around a search for his identity, in usual coming-of-age style.

But this is more pertinent to a discussion on Alto's character, and is largely irrelevant to why he's so ornery towards Sheryl in the first few episodes. If you can accept that Alto's critique has more to do with his attitude towards Sheryl than it does with what she actually ought to have done, then we're on the same page as far as this thread is concerned. (Besides, I have a feeling that if I bring Yasaburo up, you'll never let this conversation end.)

<g> True enough, Yasaburo is kind of a red rag to me. But so far, I agree with what you said.

[SS13]

Sheryl's reaction is entirely understandable. She is giving a concert when suddenly, alarm goes off. She wants to continue, but is overridden by Cathy. She is annoyed, so she at this point basically comes into "leave it to officials" mode. Remember she cannot help at this point (at least she doesn't know she can), and she doesn't even know what happens. So yes, she reacts passively, but that's excusable. Also, because of her first reaction, her returning may actually backfire as it could prompt people to stay or at least stop. AAter all she wanted to continue. If she is back thn maybe we can stay, too?
Yes, Alto, who later pulls a hero (and is not good at it, mind you) considers it haughty. But this is life. What is true is that Sheryl doesn't exactly put a hero in that moment. But she is a civilian who faces unknown danger, so she really reacts ok.

[wisteria233]

You know what I just realized something quite frightening of Sheryl's backstory. In MF proper she is known as Fairy 9 to Grace and her pals, who also make a mention of there being other test subjects before her that failed. Meaning that there were eight other girls before Sheryl who were put through the same thing, only they all failed, meaning they died sometime during their projects.

But that's not the only thing. Knowing what Sheryl went through and knowing that there were eight others in both movie-verse and Tv series-verse that went through the same hardships she did except those girls probably never got to experience the happy life that Sheryl did at Frontier. They probably never got to fall in love, something which Grace was pretty sure that Sheryl would never be able to experience love in the drama cds.

It kinda makes the very idea of Sheryl getting a happy ending seem more triumphant.

If Karice, Gubaba, or anyone really could correct me and diffuse some of my horror, it'd be nice.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

You know what I just realized something quite frightening of Sheryl's backstory. In MF proper she is known as Fairy 9 to Grace and her pals, who also make a mention of there being other test subjects before her that failed. Meaning that there were eight other girls before Sheryl who were put through the same thing, only they all failed, meaning they died sometime during their projects.

But that's not the only thing. Knowing what Sheryl went through and knowing that there were eight others in both movie-verse and Tv series-verse that went through the same hardships she did except those girls probably never got to experience the happy life that Sheryl did at Frontier. They probably never got to fall in love, something which Grace was pretty sure that Sheryl would never be able to experience love in the drama cds.

It kinda makes the very idea of Sheryl getting a happy ending seem more triumphant.

If Karice, Gubaba, or anyone really could correct me and diffuse some of my horror, it'd be nice.

No, I think you are spot on. Makes Grace seem even more monstrous, eh? And she was already someone who'd take revenge on two generation of her targets descendants.

Spoiler for Grace movie spoiler:

I am really surprised that they changed her for the movie. She was one of the most effective villains I've seen in years.

But, yeah, poor girls. Makes you wonder how long this project was in the planning, though. Or maybe those other "Fairy" projects are still on-going. Nobody says several projects cannot be done at the same time.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

No, I think you are spot on. Makes Grace seem even more monstrous, eh? And she was already someone who'd take revenge on two generation of her targets descendants.

Spoiler for Grace movie spoiler:

I am really surprised that they changed her for the movie. She was one of the most effective villains I've seen in years.

But, yeah, poor girls. Makes you wonder how long this project was in the planning, though. Or maybe those other "Fairy" projects are still on-going. Nobody says several projects cannot be done at the same time.

that's just what I was afraid of.

[Lancel]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

You know what I just realized something quite frightening of Sheryl's backstory. In MF proper she is known as Fairy 9 to Grace and her pals, who also make a mention of there being other test subjects before her that failed. Meaning that there were eight other girls before Sheryl who were put through the same thing, only they all failed, meaning they died sometime during their projects.

But that's not the only thing. Knowing what Sheryl went through and knowing that there were eight others in both movie-verse and Tv series-verse that went through the same hardships she did except those girls probably never got to experience the happy life that Sheryl did at Frontier. They probably never got to fall in love, something which Grace was pretty sure that Sheryl would never be able to experience love in the drama cds.

It kinda makes the very idea of Sheryl getting a happy ending seem more triumphant.

If Karice, Gubaba, or anyone really could correct me and diffuse some of my horror, it'd be nice.

This has always been my assumption, though we can't be too certain what their ages were. They need not have necessarily been children, though it seems likely given Sheryl was 7 at the time. Also what I hear is that the procedure Grace uses is very, very painful.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

You know what I just realized something quite frightening of Sheryl's backstory. In MF proper she is known as Fairy 9 to Grace and her pals, who also make a mention of there being other test subjects before her that failed. Meaning that there were eight other girls before Sheryl who were put through the same thing, only they all failed, meaning they died sometime during their projects.

But that's not the only thing. Knowing what Sheryl went through and knowing that there were eight others in both movie-verse and Tv series-verse that went through the same hardships she did except those girls probably never got to experience the happy life that Sheryl did at Frontier. They probably never got to fall in love, something which Grace was pretty sure that Sheryl would never be able to experience love in the drama cds.

It kinda makes the very idea of Sheryl getting a happy ending seem more triumphant.

If Karice, Gubaba, or anyone really could correct me and diffuse some of my horror, it'd be nice.

I agree with this. But... Movie verse, Grace

Spoiler for spoilers:

isn't really a bad guy? I read that she's as controlled by Galaxy as Brera was. There was a BOOM of Good!Grace pictures holding young Sheryl in fanart sites since the movie premiere. Correct me if I'm wrong, moviegoers. She even tells Sheryl to sing, giving her a microphone as she passes away in a tearful goodbye?

Kind of the Kiss in the Galaxy manga. A genuine cool big sister figure who is protective of Sheryl.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Thess

I agree with this. But... Movie verse, Grace

Spoiler for spoilers:

isn't really a bad guy? I read that she's as controlled by Galaxy as Brera was. There was a BOOM of Good!Grace pictures holding young Sheryl in fanart sites since the movie premiere. Correct me if I'm wrong, moviegoers. She even tells Sheryl to sing, giving her a microphone as she passes away in a tearful goodbye?

Kind of the Kiss in the Galaxy manga. A genuine cool big sister figure.

See that's the thing

Spoiler for possibly for the movie:

In the Drama Cds it was revealed that Grace did in fact love her, before she erased all of her memories of raising Sheryl.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

See that's the thing

Spoiler for possibly for the movie:

In the Drama Cds it was revealed that Grace did in fact love her, before she erased all of her memories of raising Sheryl.

I know that. But movie wise (and KitG manga)

Spoiler for spoilers:

she still loves her? There was no memory erase it seems.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Thess

I know that. But movie wise (and KitG manga)

Spoiler for spoilers:

she still loves her? There was no memory erase it seems.

Spoiler for you never know:

Which probably means in those continuities Grace didn't erase her memories of Sheryl. While this does make me feel better for Sheryl I am saddened by the loss of a very good villain.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Spoiler for you never know:

Which probably means in those continuities Grace didn't erase her memories of Sheryl. While this does make me feel better for Sheryl I am saddened by the loss of a very good villain.

Could be, also

Spoiler for KitG:

In KitG, Grace didn't LOOK like a creeper picking up Sheryl (she was heroic lol). Unlike the Tv series that cast her in a sinister light.

I don't remember if the first movie had the scene. I remember Sheryl scourging the trash as homeless, but not Grace.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Thess

Could be, also

Spoiler for KitG:

In KitG, Grace didn't LOOK like a creeper picking up Sheryl (she was heroic lol). Unlike the Tv series that cast her in a sinister light.

I don't remember if the first movie had the scene. I remember Sheryl scourging the trash as homeless, but not Grace.

Spoiler for re: manga movie:

I don't think the first movie never had the scene either. Though Grace did seem more parental in Itsuwari no Utahime.

That's because of the lack of the the shinny glasses which obscures her eyes from view. Grace seems much nicer in the drama cds though where its revealed that Grace used to sleep in the same bed with Sheryl to help her sleep when infecting her with the V-type infection.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Spoiler for re: manga movie:

That's because of the lack of the the shinny glasses which obscures her eyes from view. Grace seems much nicer in the drama cds though where its revealed that Grace used to sleep in the same bed with Sheryl to help her sleep when infecting her with the V-type infection.

Spoiler for spoiler:

How... nice. Not.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Spoiler for spoiler:

How... nice. Not.

Hey it was innocent, it was described as the equivalent of a child who runs into their parents bedroom because of a bad dream except in Sheryl's case it was because of the pain she was in.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Hey it was innocent, it was described as the equivalent of a child who runs into their parents bedroom because of a bad dream except in Sheryl's case it was because of the pain she was in.

Yeah, but the unfortunate implication is Sheryl getting solace with Grace, while Grace secretly is poisoning her blood. It is really rather an upsetting mental image, for the sheer cruelty necessary on Graces part. But, well, she is a rather unsettling villain.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Yeah, but the unfortunate implication is Sheryl getting solace with Grace, while Grace secretly is poisoning her blood. It is really rather an upsetting mental image, for the sheer cruelty necessary on Graces part. But, well, she is a rather unsettling villain.

Actually when you listen to the actual drama cd Grace sounds surprised and awkward to hear young Sheryl ask that of her. Its actually a very sad exchange because you can hear the exchange, and especially knowing what will happen later on. Especially when Grace basically starts becoming reluctant to allow Sheryl continue with the Fairy Project.