Claymore Chapter 114

[MalakTawus]

What do you mean by "they were true warriors"? Because true warrior doesn't equal honourable warrior.

When i said true warrior i indeed meant honourable warriors,my bad....

Anyway, about Undine or Flora, not wanting to escape is one thing, not doing it is another. If they received a direct order from Miria, do you think they would disobey her?

Of course they would disobey, imo with a probability close to 100%.
Honorurable warriors like them would prefer to die than to do something like that imo, and anyway if Miria would have given that order she would have lost respect of ALL the honourable warriors in a single moment (that btw generally are also the strongest warriors)
And i'm not talking about only Undine and Flora, even Deneve,Cinzia,Claire and Jean would have never accepted an order like that (If you really think that these warriors would accept that order than imo you understand nothing about their character....Jean support?Really?).

....but anyway even Miria herself is too honourable to give that order (infact she didn't)

which I doubt, especially after Flora's little performance and showing utmost respect to Miria

Gooral, Flora respects Miria for a good reason,she knows that Miria is an honourable warrior.The instant Miria would have given that order she would have lost A LOT respect.

No, they didn't suffer a great loss, you're completely wrong. I would suggest you read volumes 9-11 again. They lost only a few out of all 28

Gooral.Claymore has shown very clearly that numbers mean almost nothing.
The single lost of Rigardo alone has decreased IMMENSELY the strenght of the whole army.
Compared to him the other ABs are insignificant, if you add to that the fact that also the warriors were able to kill a few other ABs and it's absolutely undeniable that Isley's army suffered an huge loss (not in the sense that they didn't win the battle)......not to mention that if we want to be precise it's quite safe to assume that died more ABs than what you say since it's quite clear that the last survivors killed someone else before being KOed (as you can see i don't need to reread those volumes,i've read them thousands times already lol).
For example think of the battle that Miria and the new warriors are doing now: if Miria dies it's still a single loss,but even if 80% of the others survives the battle, the truth is that their whole strenght would be A LOT inferior.
It's clear from my words that when i said "a great loss" i meant "a great loss in power", not in numbers.

[BlackMagister]

Just more random criticism, but you can't even tell that Miria has scars on her face in some panels. I guess angle and distance can play a factor, but Yagi didn't even draw faint scar lines so disappointed that small detail wasn't added. Yagi doesn't have the best art, but still it would be nice to have these small details put in. If you're going to make Miria into "Miria X" draw her as such consistently. Although Yagi doesn't even do noses for characters at a certain distance the "X" is a bigger characteristic than a nose.

[Aimless]

Leaving out details like that is typical of Yagi's style. Consider Galatea's eye scars in some panels.

[liquidmetal]

Yeah its popped up throughout the series. Only really pay attention to the close ups of people for the full details of their face

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by Blaat

Funny thing I don't find that baffling at all assuming, of course, that Rune is pronounced in Japanese as "Rew-neh" and not as "Roon".

Originally Posted by Cyclone

It's a bit baffling to me considering that Japanese has a perfectly good "RE"('reh') sound they could have used. The only possible explanation to me is that they intend for the 'U' to be silent, thus pronouncing it "R'neh"/"Er-neh".
Ah well - it is what it is.

Or perhaps they were attempting a "ruh" sound instead, but lacking a phonetic match settled for "rew." Ruh-Neh sounds more natural than Reh-Neh, but then again, that's just my preference.

[Gooral]

@irvinethearcher
About Rafaela, all Clare knew was that Rubel was confident she would be able to defeat both Jean and Clare at the same time, which didn't tell her much (knowing how deceitful Rubel was it could be a bluff as well). But if Miria was with them I'm pretty sure they would take their chances against her if it was needed. Rafaela isn't Teresa and fighting 3 or more opponents at the same time wouldn't be that easy, especially if she was against super precise QS, Miria's phantoms and Jean's overwhelming power. And let's say Flora or Deneve would join them and Helen would use her long ranged attacks and we would have an interesting fight in favour of Clare and co and not Rafeala. That's what Miria and the rest would probably think at least. Unless Rafaela could own Riguald or had similar power as him while being in a cloaked mode fabulous 4 +the highest digits would deal with her. There would be no indication to think otherwise. The only thing Miria could be scared of is that Rafaela was cloaked and could kill them one by one. Which would be very difficult to do with the right planning (patrol shifts, always travelling in groups, etc.)

BTW, it's very difficult to estimate Rafaela's power since we have almost no data. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if she was more powerful than awakened Riguald. She was confident she could take Irene on and her QS was a technique only Teresa, Priscilla and some #1s could defeat. She would probably have chances with Riguald and at worst neither of them would be able to kill one another. Her technique was superb and her power was monstrous. So if Rafaela could surpass it while being in a cloaked mode she would be a real monster. In "dreamland", where she fought Clare she has shown she can easily counter Clare's version of WC - version in which youki wasn't being emitted (contrary to the most powerful version of Flora's WC without going over her limit). But it was far from Irene's QS speed and power and probably weaker than Flora's WC so it doesn't tell us that much. And we don't know whether Rafaela's power in "dreamland" was accurate or not since she was reconstructed from Clare's memories and she couldn't have sensed her power. What's more, it was all going on in Raciella's mind so she could have been more powerful or less, in her mind everything was possible as we could see Clare being decapitated and then good as new.

As for Rafaela being merciless, we really don't know it. We don't know whether she really killed Irene or any other Claymore for that matter. It could be she gave Irene a choice to die from her hand or jump of the cliff and try her luck. It's more probable she killed Irene than not but we can't say for certain. We've seen she's not a robot or a heartless assassin when she showed her concern about her sister or about Teresa. And she didn't kill Irene in cold blood ignoring her completely, that also says us something. I'm not sure she would be willing to kill her comrades only because they weren't willing to die for the organization.

About Rafalea finding them - sure she could find them if they emitted youki. But with the pills it would be impossible and her only chance would be to track them down using trailing. And with all ABs over the place youki reading would be harder too. But most of all I'm not sure how long Rafaela would stay there to hunt deserters down when she would be more needed in the org to defend them from these ABs (unless she would know that it's not necessary because of Alicia and that Isley wouldn't go after the org which wasn't sth they could be certain about). That's the best thing about this plan. Once Claymores would vanish ABs would just go to the HQ which would make Claymore hunt pointless and dangerous. Unless MiB were retards they wouldn't want to waste their time and resources on a pointless thing.

Originally Posted by irvinethearcher

(...)
They had to maintain their function as a roadblock long enough. If the scars of the battle inflicted to pieta wouldn't be deep enough or the battle wouldn't be long enough the organisation would be suspicious.
So some of them would have been screwed anyway. How to decide who stays and fights and who is allowed to escape? And how can a smaller force efficiently build a roadblock against the already superior force of awakened beings?
Perhaps the org even send some of their pawns to pieta after the battle. They found the dead warriors corpses and assumed that those they couldn't find must be somewhere hidden in the ruins.
Miria's plan relied on casualties in order to work. Or better spoken, casualties were a necessary condition for any thinkable escape plan in order to be successful.

lol
Why would some of them need to stay in Pieta? Why couldn't all of them escape? We know Miria had enough pills. Your assumptions are rather strange. All they had to do was to stick together and escape. They could scatter at first to avoid being seen (as a one big group they would be easier to spot so smaller groups would be preferable, for example the same groups Miria used for fighting ABs) but thanks to being cloaked they would be rather safe. Then they would join in a certain place (let's say the cave where fab 4 +Jean gathered or somewhere else, let's say on a cliff that could be easily spotted from afar or as far north as they could go or sth like that) and they would be practically untouchable. Rafaeala wouldn't find them at first because of the pills, later she would go back since she would have to help in case Isley attacked and someone other would be needed to defeat 28 ABs. If Isley acted as he acted she would be gone anyway because she would like to meet with her sister so she would be out of the picture anyway (but that's beyond the point). After the battle would be over and 28 ABs would be defeated (which would require more effort on organization's part, for example Riguald as intelligent as he was might have noticed that Beth was restraining her sister and he might have tried to kill her, plus 28 ABs instead of 11 would be a big problem for them) they would probably have some casualties and they couldn't effort afford to send anyone after Pieta warriors (they couldn't have known that not all 28 would go after the org so recalling Rafaela would be a smart thing to do). Once they would gain some kind of an equilibrium anyone other than Alicia and Beth or Rafalea wouldn't be able to deal with all 24 warriors. And it would be stupid for them to dispatch them since any time Riful or Isley could attack them (and Luciella for all Miria could know). So only Rafaela could be spared (dispatching every other Claymore would also greatly weaken the organization and prevent them from receiving money and doing their usual work). But Rafaela against all 24 warriors would have some difficulties I would think (and certainly Miria would think so). And finding them in that climate wouldn't be that easy unless Rafaela was an eye or had one with her (but again, I doubt they could spare an eye for that).

BTW, I've noticed after re-reading Irene's execution part that Rafaela could sense some other Claymore was with Irene, although she couldn't tell she was already gone. How? Is youki like a scent and it's particles are being left where Claymores are (and are being diffused)? Or did she literally smell Clare?

[Arturro]

Originally Posted by Gooral

I've noticed after re-reading Irene's execution part that Rafaela could sense some other Claymore was with Irene, although she couldn't tell she was already gone. How? Is youki like a scent and it's particles are being left where Claymores are (and are being diffused)? Or did she literally smell Clare?

Miata, Clare before half-awakening, Rafaela and Ophelia were using smell, not yoki sense to find yoma or another warrior. Supernatural creatures smell must be lasting for a long time. Priscilla was able to notice Clare smell on Raki long time after that two parted their ways. Clare in first chapter noticed yoma smell on Raki, while not being able to sense yoki at all. Ophelia was even able to recognize Clare has awakened just because her smell was not right. MiBs send Miata after Galatea because of her heightened senses, her sense of smell wasn't directly mentioned but IMO smell is the best way to find someones track.
I suppose some warriors, like the one mentioned before, have exceptional six senses and those of single number are trained by Org to hunt rogue warriors. Obviously yoki sensors, even as good as Galatea, are not effective as hunters. Those warriors with smell are better - they could track warriors long gone from last confirmed localizations, they could look for warriors using pills or in cloaked state. If I'm right Dietrich sense of smell also should be exceptional. Org used her, not Rene the Eye or Raftela.

[irvinethearcher]

Rafaella is in the comfortable position to not have to fight them together. She would fight them like the predator fought
arnies men and kill them one on one in single combat. Miria would be first. Rafaella has all the advantage. First killing miria with a sneak attack than waiting for some days until the claymores become exhausted from sleep deprivation. They don't know when and where she would strike next.
You gave the best supporting arguments yourself:

Originally Posted by Gooral

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if she was more powerful than awakened Riguald. She was confident she could take Irene on and her QS was a technique only Teresa, Priscilla and some #1s could defeat. She would probably have chances with Riguald and at worst neither of them would be able to kill one another. Her technique was superb and her power was monstrous. So if Rafaela could surpass it while being in a cloaked mode she would be a real monster. In "dreamland", where she fought Clare she has shown she can easily counter Clare's version of WC - version in which youki wasn't being emitted.

I think that it is the nature of the wc that it not needs the use of yoki. That flora's windcutter gets stronger when she releases yoki seems logical but i can't remember some scene from which we can conclude that. I think that clare's windcutter was stronger than flora's version:
1. Clare had irene's arm
2. Clare trained in the north. The same training that made yuma stronger than number 14.
3. Clare awakened body parts against rigardo. Priscilla felt two strong lights, miria and clare which indicates that
clare was yoki wise at miria's level. Priscilla did not measure miria and clare with the sixth sense like
miata did she measured them only by their yoki.
4. Clare had 7 years time to learn flora's technique. Clare was always a fast learner.
My conclusion is that(except flora's windcutter becomes way stronger when she releases yoki) clare's yokiless windcutter must
be superior to flora's.

Was Rafaella merciless?
I think she was, at least against traitors and deserters. IMO she was eager to believe the lies of the organisation despite she probably distrusted them and knew better.
Because if she did not question the org killing was easier when she believed herself being righteous.
She did it for her sister. I think losing a sister with which you have made a soul link can not be compared with losing
a normal comrade, friend, sister or parent. I can understand her motivation to get luciella back/kill at all costs.
Therefore she needed the intel of the organisation. And i assume that for that intel she selled her soul to them.
I am 99,9% sure rafaella killed a lot of other deserters before. Why otherwise send her after irene?
And she found her very soon after she had used her qs again, which showed that rafaella was a professional bloodhound. Galatea mentioned something to rubel at org hq(chapter 61):
rimuto: Don't think you will be treated special forever. Know that the next generations eye is being raised as we speak
galatea: I see the training of a more docile eye. And under the pretext of area surveillance you will have that new eye observe the north. Nearby there will be number 5 rafaella. What awaits those who abandon their duty of serving as a roadblock is, is a blood purge under the name of punishment for insubordination.
=>Galatea knew that rafaella was used to kill warriors too.

Originally Posted by gooral

About Rafalea finding them - sure she could find them if they emitted youki. But with the pills it would be impossible and her only chance would be to track them down using trailing.

I think rafaella would find them, because i am quite sure there wasn't enough pils to cloak them for a longer time. Clare used up nearly all her pills on her search for raki and she knew that she would emit yoki without pills again. IMO the warriors have to actively surpress their yoki for a long time(like theresa tried because despite theresa nearly never released yoki she emited it) to make it vanish. Perhaps for a few months or a year? As soon as they are out of pills they would emit yoki again, even if it is faint, rafaella would find them in the mountains. They could scatter but that would change nothing. Some day they would be out of pills and emit yoki again and become targets for rafaella. Otherwise more warriors would have deserted.
when irene left there was indeed no one to pursue her. Rafaella had to be found and recruited by uncle sam(rubel) first.


I described what is imo the problem with simply leaving in my posts above. The town must have bear the scars of battle, destroyed buildings and so on. This can perhaps be faked but there must be dead claymores also all over the place for the pawns of the org to find them.
Miria did not knew that rafaella would met her sister. Miria only knew that she was waiting outside and observing the fight. Ok, miria could have concluded that there was a possibility that rafaella would try to get to her sister if isley battles luciella but that is nothing she can bet the life of her comrades on. Isley surprised everyone not to go to the organisation with his army but to go to the south alone instead.

I first thought that Rafaella was not observing the battle directely like galatea at paburo mountain because she would have sensed clare's awakening of body parts and telling the org about it. But after thinking about it in depths:

There was no way she would not oversee it from the distance.
Rafaella MUST have sensed the unnatural characteristics of the fight. She must have sensed it and she must have kept it a secret from the org. Perhaps she even sensed and recognised theresa's yoki in clare?

Originally Posted by gooral

BTW, I've noticed after re-reading Irene's execution part that Rafaela could sense some other Claymore was with Irene, although she couldn't tell she was already gone. How? Is youki like a scent and it's particles are being left where Claymores are (and are being diffused)? Or did she literally smell Clare?

Couldn't clare sense the yoki of the yoma on raki?
In the anime they said they could sense clare's yoki scattered all over the place.
The easier explanation for rafaella knowing clare was ther is because she used the qs too and rafaella sensed that.

by the way
i finished chapter 105 on youtube and used the scanslation of the mib
IMO 105 got not the attention it deserved.

[Mighty_frog]

hi all, new face here. I watched the claymore anime during its original airing period but put off reading the manga till now. I just recently rewatched the entire anime then got through the manga in around 3 days thanks to some amazing self restraint, otherwise i might have just gobbled it all up in one day cuz its too good hehe. Now i come to join the painstaking monthly waits

Anyways i just want to give my $0.02 about Rafutela's "hax" powers even though the discussion seems to have diverted away from that for a while now. Personally, i had the very same impression of "ZOMG HAX!!!" the first time i saw Galatea's yoki manipulation. At that point it seemed immensely overpowered and Galatea herself seemed like a God but thanks to one smart little loli we realized the glaring weaknesses in this technique and have seen it being succesfully overcome many times. Im positive Rafutela's power is also not absolute, we just haven't learned enough about it yet. I also don't think Rafu-chan is dead just yet, it just doesnt smell right to me to write her off like that; so we might get to see her yoki "hax" in action again sooner or later.

[Rolyn]

anyone know when chapter 115 will be released? at least an estimate since 114 came out so late -.-

[Newhope]

Originally Posted by Rolyn

anyone know when chapter 115 will be released? at least an estimate since 114 came out so late -.-

Around the 3-4th June.

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Newhope

Around the 3-4th June.

Well, Claymore chapter 115th will be officially out in stores on June 3rd so I wouldn't be surprised if we would see a raw or Chinese scanlation at the end of May.

BTW:
MiB Chapter 114 out.

[irvinethearcher]

Originally Posted by Gooral

MiB Chapter 114 out

Nice!!
But did ms not already use gernots translation?

[Ryuken]

I really lost track of this chapter.

[blood-red-butterfly]

I liked this chapter, but Miria isn't my favorite character. I find it a bit of a cliche for her to be alive.. also, I really want to know more about the seven ghosts, since the newbies all suck and have no personality except for Dietrich and Miata. Other than that, I enjoyed it.

[Elandyll]

Seems like there is some kind of "fatigue" going on? Or possibly the tricks pulled by Yagi are having a toll on people's enjoyment of the series?

Just looks like there is less and less posting in between chapters, whereas there used to be epic discussion over anything and everything for days upon days, now there are several days without a single post.

Just noticing as a person who is more of a lurker than a poster

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

Seems like there is some kind of "fatigue" going on? Or possibly the tricks pulled by Yagi are having a toll on people's enjoyment of the series?

Just looks like there is less and less posting in between chapters, whereas there used to be epic discussion over anything and everything for days upon days, now there are several days without a single post.

Just noticing as a person who is more of a lurker than a poster

Spoiler for Off-topic, but in response to the above:

Probably doesn't help when anonymous neg reppers spoil the mood - once upon a time, when somebody disagreed about a point (or lack thereof) they would post a response in the forum, or send a PM. Leaving neg rep should be a last resort, IMHO.

So now I, and apparently others, just lurk to see if anything "safe" to comment on comes up.

I actually look forward to Yagi's surprises - if anything, they keep things interesting in what would otherwise become a tedious 'same-old, same-old' pattern. That being said, other than throwing out wild theories of what will happen next, there really hasn't been much of anything worthy of an epic discussion, unless somebody starts dredging up old topics from past chapter threads....

[Gooral]

@Elandyll
Not only that, on MH there are more than twice as much views on the topic of newest chapter (which baffles me actually, it always was the other way around). No new posts, no new views. If every person who voted in a poll would write a post here the views would soar sky-high. It seems that Miria as the central character is no good, we need Clare back ! Also Miria dying would also help to grab attention of most people. It looks like most people agree that bringing her back was lame.

[Butagami]

Originally Posted by Gooral

@Elandyll
Not only that, on MH there are more than twice as much views on the topic of newest chapter (which baffles me actually, it always was the other way around). No new posts, no new views. If every person who voted in a poll would write a post here the views would soar sky-high. It seems that Miria as the central character is no good, we need Clare back ! Also Miria dying would also help to grab attention of most people. It looks like most people agree that bringing her back was lame.

Somehow I'm thinking Miria is going to die again (for real this time). She's living on borrowed time, against the overwhelming odds of the zombie No. 1's. Maybe Yagi just thought it was too cruel to let her die like she almost did, delusional and at the hands of warriors like herself. That would also stop us from sympathising with the warriors when (not if :P)they all get slaughtered. Miria'll probably get a fitting end, like a last stand to let some warriors escape (who will inform the other ghosts).

As for the neg-reppers, they're like terrorists (might be slightly overreacting here ), stop posting to avoid a bad rep, and they've won. C'mon, it's not like we won't respect you if your rep goes down a bit, right?

[rafael1932]

Originally Posted by Gooral

It looks like most people agree that bringing her back was lame.

In the dream world, clare got her head destroyed by Rafaela. The rule is – if you get killed in the dreamworld you die in the real life. Yeah talking about lame returns...

Originally Posted by Butagami

Somehow I'm thinking Miria is going to die again (for real this time).

those abyssal eaters have the same yoki power that those awakened from pieta and she have to protect these new single digits. I could see her dying right now