2009-11-16, 01:27 | Link #22082 | |
Pancakes
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In Your House. No, really, look properly.
|
Quote:
People bash C.C way less than they do Kallen. Or maybe they do, but not here, I dunno.
__________________
|
|
2009-11-16, 04:36 | Link #22083 | |
Srsly ?
Artist
Join Date: Apr 2008
|
Quote:
Between useless characters, sudden "change of mind" characters, and characters with promise of an awesome BG who turn out to have been slave in the past, I don't think she was this bad devellopped in the end. I'd be the first one whining about the change of devellopemnt but in the end she is still one of the most devellopped character of season 2, and by far. Which is awesome since every character who is not Lelouch in this show is doomed. So yeah, I think she was pretty useful and awesome. In the end her devellopment with Lelouch wasn't for shit and the guy learnt from her. This plus the fact she saved his pretty face more than once, so yeah, Even at the surface, the girl wasn't there to bake cookies. You Disagree ? Cool, but I don't care. You can't understand the whole world. And yes Paladinoras, C.C. is way less bashed than Kallen. While the girl is even more useless than Kallen in the majority of the serie (Don't misunderstood me, I love her (when her fans aren't around turning her into Mary Chi Chi Sue) but let's call a cat, a cat. And Kallen is awesome, that's it.
__________________
|
|
2009-11-16, 07:19 | Link #22084 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
lol. As for me though, I certainly bash C.C. more than Kallen. They were on the wrong side from the beginning, though, so I don't think character development or anything could have done anything for my disapproval of these characters. One followed and fought for a man following a destructive path based on mistaken perceptions of reality, while the other encouraged said misconceptions and pushed him down that path in the first place. Both are regrettable things (to me), but C.C.'s sin is obviously much greater.
|
2009-11-16, 09:54 | Link #22086 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
:P I meant 'the wrong side for me to like/approve of', more specifically by their relation to Lelouch, I suppose. Though there are basically only two characters who qualify (Shirley and Suzaku). Between Lelouch and Suzaku, Suzaku is on the 'right' side because he does not harbour the mistaken belief that (executive) Britannia (Charles and the royal family) is his personal enemy. Between Shirley, Kallen, and C.C., Shirley is on the 'right' side because she discourages Lelouch's mistaken pursuit of revenge, Kallen is approximately neutral because she merely follows it, while C.C. is a lying whore for encouraging it.
My personal opinions don't really belong in the Kallen thread, though. I guess the Lelouch thread would be more appropriate for further discussion. Was just mentioning that Kallen does get less flak than C.C. from me personally. |
2009-11-16, 16:44 | Link #22087 |
We're so far gone
|
Eh this Kallen and C.C. hate really pisses me off. I don't think anyone should take this so seriously, I mean really calling an anime character a lying whore? It's a bit much. By the way it seems like you, Sol Falling, probably don't like Lelouch either since you're bashing C.C. and Kallen whose opinions tend to be closer to his. Whatever.
I like strong women, I like female pilots, I like people who fight for their beliefs and are passionate. Really Kallen has a lot more going for her in personality and character development than most of them. It's not just because of her looks. I hate female character bashing! |
2009-11-16, 17:09 | Link #22088 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: U.S.A.
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Oh, and you hate "female" character bashing? Does that mean you approve of male character bashing? |
|
2009-11-16, 19:44 | Link #22091 |
We're so far gone
|
I also have to say a wrong and a right side? The heroes of the anime are supposed to be Lelouch and his gang but I suppose this is matter of opinion. Britannia treated Japan horribly and if you think it's wrong to be vengeful for that and want to change it even if there are lives lost than well I'd hate to know what you think of some of the things in real life.
|
2009-11-16, 23:35 | Link #22092 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
Quote:
And yeah, this argument isn't really new. If you're familiar with it, then perhaps we can move on. Quote:
And the vengeance I was talking about was Lelouch's personal one. Although I do think revenge is a bit of a dead end in general. |
||
2009-11-16, 23:41 | Link #22093 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
|
Quote:
|
|
2009-11-18, 07:47 | Link #22094 | |
Pancakes
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In Your House. No, really, look properly.
|
Quote:
But this is in the wrong thread anyways, so why the hell am I even posting this.
__________________
|
|
2009-11-18, 08:10 | Link #22095 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
|
the two things are not connected
kallen's motivation and lelouch's motivation are NOT the same at all they are simply allies in the same struggle because their enemy is the same lelouch does not care all that much about japan, while kallen does not care about his vendetta (and is unaware of it during season 1) saying "kallen's on the wrong side" because lelouch's motivation is flawed (to an extent) is completely missing the point the japanese liberation movement (kallen's motivation) is by default the RIGHT SIDE because britannia is by default the WRONG side as an occupying oppressive racist regime that rivals NAZI Germany in sheer horrible meanness and hence, anyone who fights for them is by default on the wrong side suzaku's goal, while admirable sounding, is consistently shown to be misguided idealism at best and later revealed to be outright self deluded (his REAL aim is to get himself killed, and he's just fooling himself in claiming otherwise) lelouch high jacks the japanese liberation movement under the pretext of fighting for japan and kallen follows him in season one because she (like everyone else) BELIEVES in that pretext and in season 2 she follows him because she accepts that freeing japan might be a result of his actions (she tells him she follows "zero", and not him) arguing that she's wrong because she follows a man who has ulterior motives of his own in addition to accomplishing her own goal is hardly convincing especially in light of the fact that his own goals are not all that wrong either @Paladinoras you are wrong in thinking that lelouch's goal of destroying britannia and his goal of creating a better world for nunnaly are two different goals the two are one and the same its creating a better world for nunnaly BY destroying britannia because if they are discovered they would be used as pawns again or outright murdered its nunnaly who wishes for a gentler world lelouch simply wants one where THAT wont happen
__________________
|
2009-11-18, 08:57 | Link #22096 | |
Pancakes
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In Your House. No, really, look properly.
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2009-11-18, 12:38 | Link #22098 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
Quote:
To clarify further: in terms of 'good' realized on all levels within the show Code Geass, to me Kallen is approximately neutral (more minus than plus honestly). Seeing as I'm not compelled by her personality, this leaves her on the 'wrong side' for me to like her. The 'sides' I'm talking about are not limited to political affiliations, as that is a grey area issue, but rather the positions/roles of the characters within the show as a whole. |
|
2009-11-18, 13:03 | Link #22099 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
|
and yet you consider sheirly to be on the positive side
despite her belonging to the side of the evil empire (its only grey if you're color blind, and even then its dark grey) taking no part at all in trying to either change its ways or trying to drive it out of where it has no place being and, in your words, trying to "discourage" the the man who does try to oppose it interesting... not that i have something against shierly mind you, but i just dont follow your rational and what about the suzaku issue do you disagree with exactly ? his way is not only wrong from a moral stand point (as it would forever condemn the Japanese to being britannian servants) but also false in its basic nature (since its only an excuse to try and get himself killed)
__________________
Last edited by bladeofdarkness; 2009-11-18 at 13:21. |
2009-11-18, 14:31 | Link #22100 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
Shirley being uninvolved in the political/military struggle is no reason to condemn her. (For being a high school student, I think being the first one to try to welcome an 'eleven' into their heretofore Britannian-exclusive school is enough to qualify as support for 'change'). As for what Shirley discouraged specifically, it was more Lelouch's destructive and self-damaging tendencies than his desire to change the world.
As for my disagreements on Suzaku: I don't think he was wrong from a moral standpoint, because government is something society constructed. National identity is not something I consider fundamental to human life. Regardless of the legitimacy of the Britannian occupation, the ultimate goal of change should simply be whether the people there can be happy. As the system did allow participation by conquered peoples, trying to encourage it and improve conditions instead of destroying it wasn't morally wrong. As for Suzaku's stance being an 'excuse' to enact his death wish, this isn't true. Suzaku's death wish is in addition to his desire to help the Japanese people. And once he met Euphie, he began to abandon the self-punishment entirely. You can level the same illegitimacy of motivation at Kallen, who was fighting Britannia at the start of the series only to lash out for the death of her brother (she had no 'hope' for achieving anything). Only in meeting Zero did her destructive impulse begin to turn into a positive one (hope for actually liberating Japan). In fact, by the time Suzaku lost Euphie, he had lost any desire for self-punishment, instead focusing almost entirely (aside from helping the people his way) on getting revenge on Zero. Suzaku's deathwish doesn't even factor again until after he blows up Tokyo. |
|
|