(L) Mashiro-iro Symphony

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

More to the point, though, you've argued that this anime is as much about love-lost as it is about love-success. If so, doesn't it send a very bad thematic message to implicitly argue that when your first love fails you should give up on romance/love forever more? If Episode 12 doesn't clearly change Airi and Sana's reactions to their failed crush then that is the implicit argument being conveyed here, and it's certainly not one that I agree with.

Why would you get the impression that this is the message it's sending? Sana and Airi's attitudes aren't being glorified or put up on a pedestal; they're the "tragic heroines" of our story who went through something tough and now are finding their way through it together. If anything is being glorified here, it's the way the girls are supporting each other through this.

I think you're doing a huge disservice to both Airi and Sana to play down what they went through by saying they "simply had a crush on a guy that never reciprocated their romantic hints". This was the first guy either of them had ever gotten close to at all (neither of them had ever gotten along with any guy before, and had been going to all-girls schools all their lives), and they both got close to him in a pretty major and serious way. They have no other way to frame the relationship and no other experiences or points of comparison at this point. There's nothing in their personal history to suggest to them "don't worry, there'll be others". And having gone through this and feeling the pain of rejection, they're probably questioning if it's worth it to go through that again when there's no one in their experience that has ever elicited the same feelings before. But if the time is right and they meet the right person, then they'll probably change their mind... but that's not what they're thinking right now. These are absolutely not girls who "enter in and out of relationships with some degree of frequency" -- entirely the opposite. Understanding that is essential to sympathizing with them and understanding what the show is putting on display.

[Candyshark]

Plus let#s not forget girl like Airi doesn't like changes and love always changes you one way or another. Shingo was more than crush for her of course to lesser extend than for Sana but i'm sure it was painful experience. Some people in real life fall in love very easily and ready to throw themselves out of the window if turned down or cheated on.

Besides I think she still thinks how Sana was hurt in process. They have not experienced the bright side. So easiest way not to repeat the love-triangle is to stay clear of love affairs.

[Warr]

I've never felt so Heartbroken in my Life (True Story)

I really don't know what to say but posted it anyways to see if there is someone similar...Feeling very mixed emotions ( Don't know if Should I be happy for Sana or could i be happy for her the way its gone)

[relentlessflame]

By the way, back to this minor point for a sec...

Originally Posted by hyl

Spoiler for analysis and retrospect:

In the VN Shingo had probably no preference for certain types , because at one point in the Miu story Hayata was suprised that Shingo was the kind of person who falls for Onee-san types. But the anime Shingo is at some points different than his VN counterpart.

Spoiler for Game Comparison, Episode 7:

Not sure if the line you're referring to comes up later, but just checked and Hayata's line is pretty much the same in the anime and the game about thinking Shingo preferred older women like Miu-senpai (in fact that whole anime episode is taken almost straight from the game). So pretty sure it's consistent with the anime in this regard, but I'll look and see if I can find any contrary evidence.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Why would you get the impression that this is the message it's sending?

I'm getting that impression because it's what the characters are explicitly saying, and I don't see the anime posing any sort of counterargument to it. For example, no other character is offering up an opposing perspective. I would say that this would be the ideal time for Airi's mom to step in, to impart some worldly wisdom on her daughter and her daughter's friend.

If this anime is about love-lost, then how the characters react to that love-lost is obviously important. That logically should include how it shapes their perspective on romance and love in general.

Sana and Airi's attitudes aren't being glorified or put up on a pedestal;

They're protagonists. They're intended to be characters that the viewer likes and supports. Prominent protagonist viewpoints, when left unchallenged and unchanged, often carry with them thematic weight.

And this is the main reason why I would much prefer it if Airi and Sena were shown truly moving on, and not swearing off love/romance forever more over a failed crush.

Now if they show a change in their perspectives come next episode, great. I'll have no complaint at all then, and will like the overall handling of this issue/theme as such.

However, if they don't change their perspectives here next episode, then my misgivings will remain.

I'm simply not entirely comfortable with a story where the explicit solution given for how to best deal with a failed first love is to avoid love/romance forever more. Sorry, but those are my honest and sincere feelings on the matter, and in-canon context alone doesn't change that, because said context doesn't change the general message being conveyed on the topic of love-lost. At the very least, I would say that Airi and Sena's words carry with them unfortunate implications if Airi and Sens'a perspectives don't change a bit in Episode 12.

I think you're doing a huge disservice to both Airi and Sana to play down what they went through by saying they "simply had a crush on a guy that never reciprocated their romantic hints".

I'm not doing a disservice to them. Love-lost is love-lost. It's always painful. There's circumstances of it that are less painful than what Airi and Sana went through, and there's circumstances of it that are more painful than what they've went through.

Now, do their particular circumstances and personal backgrounds make them a bit more sympathetic here? Yes, certainly. But that doesn't make what they're saying any more agreeable to me, or easily accepted given the passage of time within Episode 11 itself.

However, my main issue here is at the meta-level. It's at the level of what this anime is saying about failed first loves, and how that should shape a person's views on romance and love.


Hopefully Airi's mom will have a word with her on this, or something else will occur to change her (and Sana's) perspectives. If so, that will render our disagreement largely moot.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

By the way, back to this minor point for a sec...

Spoiler for Game Comparison, Episode 7:

Not sure if the line you're referring to comes up later, but just checked and Hayata's line is pretty much the same in the anime and the game about thinking Shingo preferred older women like Miu-senpai (in fact that whole anime episode is taken almost straight from the game). So pretty sure it's consistent with the anime in this regard, but I'll look and see if I can find any contrary evidence.

Took me a while to that part of the VN (by using the highest message speed, muting all the voices and put it on auto, it stil took almost 2 hours to get to that point), because i didn't have a save file for Miu for the pc version on my laptop anymore and i forgot to bring my psp with me this weekend.

Spoiler for vn:

You are right, Hayata actually said in that part in Miu story that Shingo actually likes onee-san types (only in Miu's story though, there has been no mentioning of his preference of types in other stories). That scene happened after Shingo and Miu became lovers and Hayata noticed the 2 being very close.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Spoiler for quoted spoiler:

As far as Sana goes, in the PSP game only (she has no route in the PC game, which is an important distinction), Shingo has to make two choices between Sana and Miu that directs him towards one girl or another, and these are during Miu's route. Part of the change is that the situation regarding the poster was much more Sana-centric in the game (she's the only one who saw him save the poster, and the one who tended to him after he hurt his hand). So through this he realizes Sana's kindness earlier, and decides to walk home with her where she apologizes and thanks him. So they start understanding each other even sooner before all the club-saving stuff is resolved, and she's not having to play "catch-up" with Miu. The love triangle is avoided entirely in this route. In the anime, of course, everyone discovers the poster-burning, and Miu tends to Shingo's hand. Sana obviously feels badly about it, but doesn't get a chance to really address it with Shingo. So again, fate just leads Shingo a bit closer to Miu than it does to Sana, and that's enough to ruin her chance.

Spoiler for Sana:

Eventhough he did discover Sana's kindness, that scene with Sana treating Shingo's hand was already in the pc version. So i don't think that scene matters that much, because either he did not notice Sana's feelings in Miu story or did notice her in Sana's story regardless of that scene.
I am not sure because i don't have my psp with me, but i thought that the 2 choices that would change the story from Miu to Sana took place after the club was saved. (or atleast the last choice certainly was)

[darkalpha]

Once in a while I enjoy watching anime adaptions of dating-sim games, largely for character developments (of course, the unusually high number of cute girls certainly helps ). So even though I haven't heard of this title until about few weeks before it started airing, I had a feeling that this would be a good one to watch. Glad they were justified, and I'm looking forward to the next & final episode.

I don't think I've ever seen an adaption where MC wins over a boy-hating girl, so before I knew it I was rooting for Airi early on because of how outspoken outright against merging of boys into the all-girls school, and then gradually warmed to Uryuu. I didn't expect Sana to become another potential, but I wouldn't have minded her either. I really enjoyed how their perceptions of Uryuu as 'a boy' changed through their interaction with him.

So even though I liked the series as whole, I can't help but feel disappointed by the outcome as of the latest episode. A potential gone unrealized.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I'm simply not entirely comfortable with a story where the explicit solution given for how to best deal with a failed first love is to avoid love/romance forever more. [...] However, my main issue here is at the meta-level. It's at the level of what this anime is saying about failed first loves, and how that should shape a person's views on romance and love.

This is not a fable where the "moral of the story" is "hey kids, if you lose your first love, that might have been the love of your life, and you should resign yourself to being single forever!". That's not at all either the implicit or explicit point of that scene. I really hope the show doesn't have some "wise person" preach to the audience about the importance of "not giving up", because I'd consider that rather banal -- we're not little kids who need to have the moral reinforced, and there's more to life for these girls than just "finding the right guy". I'd rather have the characters focus on living life and putting romance aside for now -- that's the real sign of moving on. Sana and Airi both started the show mistrusting men, but through this experience have at least discovered that not all men are bad. I highly doubt they'll be opposed to the merger anymore, and that change in perspective is enough.

Originally Posted by hyl

Spoiler for Sana:

Eventhough he did discover Sana's kindness, that scene with Sana treating Shingo's hand was already in the pc version. So i don't think that scene matters that much, because either he did not notice Sana's feelings in Miu story or did notice her in Sana's story regardless of that scene.
I am not sure because i don't have my psp with me, but i thought that the 2 choices that would change the story from Miu to Sana took place after the club was saved. (or atleast the last choice certainly was)

Spoiler for Game comparison, Episode 6-7:

The first choice was before the club was saved. After the hand scene, you have the choice to walk home with Sana, and that's when she apologizes. The rest of the hand scene does happen anyway, but the aftermath is only if you make that choice. The second choice was after the club was saved, right basically at the end of episode 7 (Shingo either goes back to the clubhouse and Miu ends up falling asleep on his shoulder, or Shingo helps Sana search for her ring...).

[hyl]

Interesting first dvd/bd insert

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKqmUiyg3fI

[Candyshark]

Wow that's a bait! New trend incomming?

[HayashiTakara]

It seems to me that this series is more about unrequited love than anything else. The show focused more on the girls that "lost" than they did on Miu. Miu undoubtedly had the least screen time and overall development, despite being the "winner." I think it's a rather creative method of story telling to have the audience heart strings tug over the "losers" by giving them a stronger focus to allow the audience to grow fond of them and sympathize with their plight.

[RWBladewing]

This is definitely one of my favorite harem series in a long time. I love how they actually continue to feature the rejected girls and their feelings instead of the usual 10 seconds of crying followed by no longer caring or being shoved into the background. And I love how the couple actually does more than stand around awkwardly blushing at one another. And of course the beautiful character design. Sleeper hit of the season for me.

[Marina2]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

It seems to me that this series is more about unrequited love than anything else. The show focused more on the girls that "lost" than they did on Miu. Miu undoubtedly had the least screen time and overall development, despite being the "winner." I think it's a rather creative method of story telling to have the audience heart strings tug over the "losers" by giving them a stronger focus to allow the audience to grow fond of them and sympathize with their plight.

Sana made this show!!

[Tenchi Ryu]

Originally Posted by Marina2

Sana made this show!!

For me, Shingo is definitely the one that made this show. Mostly because with all the Harem-type situations, he handled them very maturely and sensibly. I was happy that finally, we get some realistic responses from a MC. Usually to get this, the MC has to be badass, but Shingo was just a normal, realistic teenage that knows how to talk to people.

[winhlp32]

Episode 11:

- I'm pretty satisfied with how the other girls handled their "loss". The whole being single thingy was in my opinion pretty typical of how dumped people handle being dumped at first. Even if they were guys it wouldn't be that weird either, as there are numerous accounts out there of guys getting together and celebrating "bachelorhood" after being dumped and making all sorts of crazy declarations. I wouldn't take what the girls say too seriously, since in the future they may remain single or they may not, anything could happen.

- Miu and Yuiko comes as a set. Looks like Miu end is best end after all.

- I wonder why Renka said she hates Miu. I don't think this has anything to do with Shingo...wonder if this will be explained.

- Didn't recognise any of the people on Airi's cellphone besides Sakuno and Sana. I didn't quite get that scene(did she want to call Sakuno?).

- I laughed at the little purse(?) that says "Love White Symphony, Palette". Even the purse wants you to buy the game. Maybe if *mutsu no Hana gets a PC port...

- Sana was all kinds of adorable this episode.

[Game8910]

Originally Posted by hyl

Interesting first dvd/bd insert

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKqmUiyg3fI

this is such a cheap tactic for more sales! YOU THINK I DONT SEE THIS MANGLOBE!? BUT WHY AM I FALLING FOR IT ANYWAYS!! BRB PRE-ORDERING VOL1

[Marina2]

Ep.12 preview images
http://imgur.com/wZWRJ
http://imgur.com/fDhbj
http://imgur.com/0zXnM
http://imgur.com/PHzxC


Also, SANAAAAAAAAAAA

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by winhlp32

- I wonder why Renka said she hates Miu. I don't think this has anything to do with Shingo...wonder if this will be explained.

I think this is just a translation error. I think it's supposed to go like this:

Ranka: "Call me Ranka. I still basically consider us best friends."
Yuiko: "Oh really? I thought you hated me..."
Ranka: "Your daughter seems to hate me, though."
Yuiko: "Is that so? That girl never complains to me..."

The reason Ranka might assume she's hated is because of all the trouble related to the club. Ranka assumes that Miu won't understand the reasons behind her actions. The context of the whole conversation is actions parents take to protect their children from a distance, and how their children don't understand it at the time.


Edit: One more thing I just noticed about this episode. At the beginning of the episode, when Shingo finds out that Sana is sick, he's going to give her a call and Airi stops him. Later on the episode, Sana talks about how every time the phone rings, she hopes that it's Shingo. If Airi hadn't stopped Shingo from calling, Sana's wish would have been granted...

[Veretax]

I haven't seen 11 or 12 yet, I'm kinda wanting to wait till I can view both at the same time, even though I know pretty well what's coming. That being said, I think in my life I had 4 crushes. One each in Elementary/Middle school. Those really never went anywhere and it didn't devastate me. in HS though I really had a strong crush on a girl, and while we were on friendly terms, I never found a way to be more than that. In a way the two times I tried were rebuffed, a bit like Airi/Sana were. I'll admit that hurt, and it took a while to get over, but I did eventually. The last girl I had a major Crush on, and spent time with really was something I let get out of hand, very much like Sana in this series. Then all of sudden, she's engaged, I didn't even know she was dating anyone else, and married months later. I wanted to be happy for her, but I couldn't bring myself to go to the Wedding, just couldn't. I remember making my peace that day, to be content with who I was and focus on what was important now, and to stop worrying about love, and the future. It was a seminal moment for me, but if I hadn't come to that point, I would have missed the woman I eventually fell in love with, and married. (And I didn't see it coming so soon either, Love has a way of surprising us.)

So I totally see the reactions of these girls as legitimate, I think this is just another place where if this anime was 2 seasons instead of one it might have not only lasted longer, but filled in some of the gaps we've been perceiving, whether real or actual.

[hyl]

It's probably very cute to have it, but i doubt i could walk outside my house (or even my room) wearing this parka