(L) New Evangelion Project: Rebuild of Evangelion [Movies 1 & 2]

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Implying that a TRUE FAN won't like the new movie...but here I am, and here Myssa Rei is. Both of us are true fans, and both of us liked it. And I don't know about Myssa, but I'm a HUGE Asuka fan, and I still loved the new movie.

You either like the movie or you don't. Liking it doesn't make you a "better" fan of the original, and neither does disliking it.

Ah ok, that makes sense. I interpreted that more as friendly banter, as Myssa seems to enjoy to egg them on a bit as well. But your absolutely right on fans placing themselves above others as "not done".

You can put me down as a long time fan that liked it as well. Rebuilt so far has managed to surprise me and I see that as a positive thing. I am somewhat suspicious of the inclusion of harem-comedy typical elements and Shinji's tough act in this installment. Time will tell if there is any meaning, or if I am thrown off by the Re-take version of events.

[bran]

I'm not placing myself anywhere above, under or between other people when i said i didn't like it as a true fan.
What i ment is that a lot of opinions i read are about Rebuild "fixing" what they didn't like about NGE or wanting happy end.
I refer to myself as a true fan because i had NO problems with NGE.
I loved everything from begining to end the way it is. For me there is nothing to be "fixed" and i find it perfect the way it is.
I stay true to the original if you like Rebuild so much you can call youself true fans of the Rebuild - i won't care.

[RisArk]

A "true fan" loves something despite all its faults. Even groups as obsessive as say Evageeks are this.

Finding none is one called "delusional."

[RyougaElliot]

Nothing is perfect. There is ALWAYS room for improvement in media, even if it's just small things.

RisArk is definitely right as far as that is concerned.

[Reckoner]

Alright here is the second and third section of my review of this movie that I wasn't able to finish last night. I will make sure to reply to some of your comments afterwards .

PLOT

At times during the movie I felt there were improvements, but at the same time a bunch of negatives. A large problem I seem to be experiencing in 2.0 is that I did see the original Evangelion. I'm not quite sure what to take as the same and what is different. It's as if my previous knowledge of the original is confusing me on the details of this remake.

In the opening scene we see something that we are familiar with already, and that is the scene of Shinji and Gendo's visiting Yui's grave. Nothing wrong here. Then Misato is driving back Shinji and we get a somewhat interesting interaction between Misato and Shinji.

Everything is alright with the world, and then BAM a boat!!! And Asuka's entering scene comes in, taking out the fodder angel easily. Now I'm disappointed a little. I very much appreciated the whole entrance of Asuka (And Kaji) in the original series because it allowed for a lot more character interaction between Shinji/Asuka and Kaji/Misato than the movie. But this all seems to be the result of time constraints? Whatever. But then Asuka gets out of her Eva and acts like a typical Tsundere, tripping Shinji. Bah. Whatever, I'm not going to complain anymore about the characters exactly.

There were a lot of shuffled scenes going on, and new ones added. I thought some of the fan service was a little much personally, though I am sure others will really like it. Things such as the paralleled scene of Asuka getting freaked out by Pen-pen in the shower and coming out nude, and then giving Shinji a kick in the face like you'd see in some harem show . Ugh. Then there is Asuka always sleeping in her underwear as well. Pen-Pen did give me a laugh though when we saw him sleeping inside Misato's shirt though .

I GUESS the main complaint is that the plot allowed for very little character interaction, in particular, the main side characters. Asuka was shafted. The college trio was very shafted. And everyone else was not even heard of basically. I do love everything about Evangelion, but the character interactions is what really made the story at the end of the day. Without it, we are lost. Time constraints, TIME CONSTRAINTS!!!!!! GRRRR... Movie format really does piss me some times.

My only beef with the plot started at the time that Asuka entered unit 0-3. The Eva limiter law, and the particular way that it's lightly introduced in the second movie for the sole purpose of having an excuse to get Asuka out of EVA-02 and make room for Mari (as opposed to being treated as an immediate major plot device that makes NERV go "Hey, wait, why is SEELE trying to limit our only hope for the entire human race?") just drives the story's laws and logical flow into a brick wall and turns it to trash. There are longer-reaching messes created by this as well. Like, if we're to assume the Evas in Rebuild aren't restricted by the soul-synchronization gimmick from the TV series, hence why Asuka is even allowed to be taken off of the Standby Eva-02 for a high-risk assignment, then you basically have to re-invent 1.0's entire plotline since there's no reason left for Gendou to go through crap looking for Shinji to pilot the 01.

That reminds me... How does no one in NERV not know about Mari? Ridiculous. She just parachutes into Tokyo like it was nothing. Also, she is somehow able to hijack unit 2-0 and everyone is like "meh whatever." Oh dear.

AND THEN THEY TOOK AWAY KAJI'S MOTIVATIONAL SPEECH TO SHINJI AND REPLACED IT WITH GODDAMN MARI . Useless, USELESS character!

Sigh. Then they supposedly do something like Shinji initiating Third-Impact only to have our lovable Kaworu comes from the heavens and strikes Unit 0-1 down before everything can happen. I just didn't dig the whole Zeruel going EoE on us with transforming into Rei's body whatsoever. They took away that chilling scene of Unit 0-1 eating Zeruel.

Basically, up until Asuka entering unit 0-3, I was actually relatively OK with the movie. They did things I disliked, especially Rei try to do the dinner party and entering some sort of cooking feud with Asuka , but then the movie entered the realm of unforgivableness.

I'll wait till the third and fourth movie though to see where they go with the plot compared to the original. They already achieved what I would say is almost absolute perfection in End of Evangelion. Perhaps what I always wanted was just a tiny bit more conclusion to EoE and I personally thought Rebuild would be able to provide that. Just wanted to see what would happen with the characters, specifically Asuka and Shinji after almost the end of the world...

Misc. Complaints

I originally intended this section to be for things that didn't fit in the other two. But I pretty much covered that sort of stuff already. Instead I'll talk a little bit about what I wanted to see compared to what I actually saw.

I'm going to quote another guy from some other forum again just to restate and add to some of my earlier opinions...

We know Evangelion pretty well so we can't have any distanced/"objective" opinion about rebluid I think. We pretty much know most of the original story details, and it confuses me when I look at rebuild and try to understand its story, because I'm influenced by what I know from the original serie. For exemple there are things I might not understand, because rebuild doesn't say much about it, and I might interpret is based on what I know from the first serie.

And I also wonder if someone who's never watched Evangelion before will really understand what's happening in rebuild. It's way too fast paced, and it lacks of character developement I think. Everything seems lighter when it comes to Mistako, Kaji, Asuka, background characters like Toji, Kensuke, etc..

I'm a fan torn right now. I don't know how to watch Rebuild anymore. I don't understand what Anno has done. I've seen people argue things such as:

I found most appealing about the series was the human drama and all the characters general fucked-up-ness, I know it's all a swing of mood. Personally, I find that people are capable of change, but ultimately never do. That's a fatalistic attitude and it's something the series embraced. Why? Depression is fatalism. So, new happy Anno has cast off that mood and embraced people's will to change, because he did.

But in the end, the manner in which he touches upon these subjects isn't quite the same.

I really just don't know.

[Myssa Rei]

Even a dash of Optimism get you down?

Familiar with Turn-A Gundam, or even the Zeta Gundam movies? While not exactly commercial successes, they're close to what's happening with the Rebuild movies. While not exactly happy (people still die left and right in the New Translation movies), they are overall a more positive look on (Universal Century) Gundam franchise, in this case by the big daddy of Gundam directors Tomino.

Yes, Kill them All Tomino. Compare the incredibly dark atmosphere of Victory Gundam with Turn-A's light-hearted idealism.

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

And I don't know about Myssa, but I'm a HUGE Asuka fan, and I still loved the new movie.

I used to help Axel Terizaki out with Asuka's Notebook, but that pretty much fell by the wayside when I started working full-time. That should clue you in just how huge a fan I am (ah Shipping, the sin of youth). But I wasn't bothered at all of what happened to her in the movie, and like this interpretation of her old characterization a little better than the old queen bitch routine. And I wasn't bothered by Mari stepping into part of her role due to the circumstances in Rebuild 2.22.

Oooooooooof course, I might be more forgiving of Mari (that name is SO hilarious in context now) since I think I was one of the few people in the old EFML who paid any kind of positive attention to the extracanonicals like Kirishima Mana and Yamigishi Mayumi, especially the latter when many of my contemporaries at the time were asking "2nd Impression? What's that?"

[RisArk]

I'm pretty sure the Zeta movies were very successful.

Especially considering they skimped on a real budget

[Archon_Wing]

Ok, just finished it. Interesting.

Spoiler for Text wall of impressions and rants:

Mari was pretty disappointing despite taking part in 2 good fights, one to open the movie with. I hope she does something in the later movies, but so far she really hasn't done much but provide some fanservice and take up time which is quite the sin since we are already strapped for time.

Well, Misato was definitely right about more service! Slightly excessive in some parts, but that's fine for the most part.

In terms of the funny parts, they did pretty well. This time, Asuka is scared by Pen Pen instead, and Kaiji's attempt at "dating" Shinji was pretty lol. Also, Pen Pen getting drunk-- woot!

I also liked the trip to the aquarium-- nice addition for me, and helps me consider how the view it. You're seeing marine animals live in water that well, isn't blood red. That little glimmer of hope that maybe we can recover the world helps motivate people to go on.

Another interesting scene is between Rei and Gendo at the dinner table. Most of the time, their relationship is left really ambiguous. I also like how they were more clear on the Yui/Rei connection, and even Shinji starts to feel it. This plot point just feels more natural in the story.

The worst part of the movie to me is probably Asuka-- while she had a brilliant entrance I was thinking that Asuka has been replaced with a cosplayer (hence the different last name!) I can't really describe what's wrong with her-- I just feel like she's a parody of TV Asuka which leaves me none too pleased. I mean sure series Asuka was a pushy bitch, but this one just comes off as being even more over the top with her repeating of baka baka baka baka and randomly hitting people, lol. The movie just went with her so oddly that I really have no idea why or how she likes Shinji. The relationship is poorly defined that when Asuka is the one in Eva-03, the tension is there but it's hardly as strong.

Interestingly, this Asuka does not sleepwalk over to Shinji. She does it deliberately. Lucky bastard.

Shinji and Rei seem much closer for whatever reason, and I'm not sure this is justified yet. Yes, there was a strong bond with them always but it just seemed too fast even given that this is a movie. It feels a bit unnatural, but nothing as bad as Asuka and Shinji.

Misato and Kaiji are well preserved enough for the most part and we got in a few good moments. Though, I really thought Kaiji providing the exposition for Misato's motivation for fighting the Angel to be not as good or strong as the original did, and that just took a lot off for me since Misato's probably my favorite character from the show.

The ending... wat?? Well, this is Evangelion so I don't mind the crazy parts. Though the last fight just didn't seem as dramatic as its tv counterpart. The sudden burst of power seemed corny, but not implausible; I'm just guessing Yui woke up earlier. And the dramatic hugging! Also cheesy, but I can let it pass. But they really needed to build on this Shinji/Rei thing more.

Credits... and Kawrou delivers the ultimate cockblock. But at least Third Impact doesn't happen yet.

Overall, I was a bit disappointed, but despite the complaining I enjoyed it more or less. The new angel designs and fights are cool for the most part. It's also evident that we are heading into new territory which I find myself a bit curious.

I give it a 6 out of 10, didn't really knock me off my feet, but a decent watch.

[Vicious108]

Well after years of antecipation, I finally watched it.

And yeah, it was bad.

It's sad to see how well Misato's trademark "service, service" line in the preview just defines Rebuild in its entirety.

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by bran

I'm not placing myself anywhere above, under or between other people when i said i didn't like it as a true fan.
What i ment is that a lot of opinions i read are about Rebuild "fixing" what they didn't like about NGE or wanting happy end.
I refer to myself as a true fan because i had NO problems with NGE.
I loved everything from begining to end the way it is. For me there is nothing to be "fixed" and i find it perfect the way it is.
I stay true to the original if you like Rebuild so much you can call youself true fans of the Rebuild - i won't care.

Can't I be a true fan of both?

[Greg88]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

It's sad to see how well Misato's trademark "service, service" line in the preview just defines Rebuild in its entirety.

"Rebuild in it's entirety" is not even complete yet. And it's not like the series didn't pull off radical changes in tone. I'm pretty sure that the harem comedy part is over for good with 2.0, and in 3.0, shit will get real.

Also, regarding the complaining about Asuka: as i rewatched the movie in HD for the second time, i realized that, despite the Tsundere antics, her most prevalent relationship isn't the one with Shinji, but rather the one with Misato.

No, really. Misato is the only one who she never calls names (in fact, they are on a first name basis from the get go). Despite being a loner, she wouldn't mind being in the company of Misato (when Shinji tells about the field trip with Kaji, Misato responds that she doesn't want to go. Asuka declares that she doesn't want to go either, and seems disappointed when Misato tells her that she will go), and generally, Misato is the only one who she feels genuinely comfortable around.

It's not an angle that's given much exploration, what with the movie being about Shinji and Rei, but it's there.

[Myssa Rei]

Indeed, the Rebuild story is just at its halfway point, but it parallels the last quarter of the TV series. Note I said parallels.

New material (which will piss off the so-called hard-cores :P) will very likely almost encompass the entirety of the next movie though. Oh boy, I can't wait.

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Can't I be a true fan of both?

How about me? I watched the original TV series, own the complete DVD set, have both End of Evangelion and Death and Rebirth AND the Renewal of Evangelion DVDs... But I also have the PS version of Girlfriend of Steel, the PC version of Girlfriend of Steel 2, a VERY RARE Sega Saturn disc of 2nd Impression, the PC version of The Shinji Ikari Raising Game and the Rei Ayanami Raising game, plus the Evangelion Typing game.

I've also kept up-to-date on the English version of the EVA manga by Sadamoto, and the AU-based comic Angelic Days. I also have a well-loved and well-read copy of the Red Cross book, and several of Ikuto Yamashita's artbooks.

Does it make me less of a fan then, that I enjoyed Rebuild? Am I not a true fan? Do I have to hate Rebuild to be a 'true fan'?

That's just so narrow-minded, don't you think? :P

[Myssa Rei]

Okay, I'm missing a lot of the artbooks (Der Mund in particular), never bought the Record of the Angel War, the mahjong games, and haven't had time to touch anything related to Petite EVA, but being a full-time postgrad student again makes it hard to purchase stuff. :P

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Indeed, the Rebuild story is just at its halfway point, but it parallels the last quarter of the TV series. Note I said parallels.

New material (which will piss off the so-called hard-cores :P) will very likely almost encompass the entirety of the next movie though. Oh boy, I can't wait.



How about me? I watched the original TV series, own the complete DVD set, have both End of Evangelion and Death and Rebirth AND the Renewal of Evangelion DVDs... But I also have the PS version of Girlfriend of Steel, the PC version of Girlfriend of Steel 2, a VERY RARE Sega Saturn disc of 2nd Impression, the PC version of The Shinji Ikari Raising Game and the Rei Ayanami Raising game, plus the Evangelion Typing game.

I've also kept up-to-date on the English version of the EVA manga by Sadamoto, and the AU-based comic Angelic Days. I also have a well-loved and well-read copy of the Red Cross book, and several of Ikuto Yamashita's artbooks.

Does it make me less of a fan then, that I enjoyed Rebuild? Am I not a true fan? Do I have to hate Rebuild to be a 'true fan'?

That's just so narrow-minded, don't you think? :P

You have more than I do...I only have the ADV VHS tapes, the first DVD set, the Platinum Edition DVDs, D&R and EoE DVDs, a VHs copy of D&R taped off of Wowow in 1997, ten of the soundtrack CDs, the D&R movie program, a few posters and calendars, the Tarot cards, a complete set of the D&R trading cards, a Pen-Pen keychain, three Seele T-shirts, a Rei T-shirt, all the Sadamoto comics (Japanese AND English), The Evangelion Chronicle books, the Newtype 100% Collection, the Sadamoto art books, the "action figures" of Rei and Asuka, and the plastic model kits of Eva-00 to the Eva Series (inclusive) (and yes, I painted and built them all), plus a few other odds and ends here and there.

Totally NOT a true fan...

[Yot-chan]

Another reason why I liked Eva 2.0 (or now, I suppose, 2.22):

Spoiler for AGAIN? HELL YEAH!:

[ac195]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

ac195: At least some of that can be explained by time constraints though (movie-length, remember?). Broader appeal -- while EVA fans watched the movies, there were ALSO non-longtime fans as well -- is another factor, though some might take umbrage at this, since apparently 'condensing' Asuka turned her into a hated moe archetype: the Tsundere.

Well then, there better be a ton more Asuka and Asuka related developments in the future installments.

Oh and no predicable cliches like her turning into an enemy because she was "infected".

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Greg88

"Rebuild in it's entirety" is not even complete yet. And it's not like the series didn't pull off radical changes in tone. I'm pretty sure that the harem comedy part is over for good with 2.0, and in 3.0, shit will get real.

I meant Rebuild 2.0, my bad.

And yes pirate Asuka and loli Reis. Can't wait for that shit to get real.

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Indeed, the Rebuild story is just at its halfway point, but it parallels the last quarter of the TV series. Note I said parallels.

New material (which will piss off the so-called hard-cores :P)

Nah. I guess you'd consider me a "hardcore" and personally it's much less painful to me to see them make new material than ruin the old one. Even if it's bad material.

[Dragonkid11]

I think I should tell you guy take it easy...

Anyway,do you guys think that could it be a new guy who gonna pilot the EVA 8,or someone we know again?

[Greg88]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

loli Reis. Can't wait for that shit to get real.

I can already hear them giggling in a creepy unison as they fall apart into bloody pieces.

Originally Posted by Dragonkid11

Anyway,do you guys think that could it be a new guy who gonna pilot the EVA 8,or someone we know again?

Introducing any new characters at this point would be the worst possible stunt they could pull. I say it will go to one of the established pilots.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Another reason why I liked Eva 2.0 (or now, I suppose, 2.22):

Spoiler for AGAIN? HELL YEAH!:

I'm glad we can agree on this.