Character discussion - Ange

[Mikachiru]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Yuki Nagato this is not. She's Kuudere.

Lol my bad. I remember seeing emotionless girl when I read that trope...

On the Ange dere debate, I'm pretty sure she's kuudere.

[AuraTwilight]

Nah, she's pretty Tsun, given how she passive-aggressively picks at Battler for dickin' around and not taking things seriously.

[neutrino]

In the VN, just how badly was Ange bullied at school? The anime had that one incident, but the manga made it look like gang violence (to quote CLAMP). The frame I saw from the VN made it sound more like she was shunned, with her bodyguards keeping anyone from getting close to her.

Interesting note: Ange's appearance and habit of throwing money around is obviously a tribute to Komachi Onozuka from Touhou. Usually she's portrayed as a slacker, but in ZUN's new Touhou manga (Wild and Horned Hermit), she comes across as a badass. Do you think Zun is reverse-importing Ange's character into her?

[AuraTwilight]

Ange was pretty heavily bullied. The "one incident" in the anime was kind of toned down, but they kept her there after classes and during lunch breaks and stuff all day for a couple days, and wouldn't even let her use the bathroom until it was time for lights out and such. They also did shit like intentionally losing her handouts and homework and shit, pretty much sabotaging any hope she might have of actually being a good student.

[kamuinoyume]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Er, what are you talking about? The time limit and Blue Truth only helped the player.

No, actually they didn't, seeing as setting a time limit, meant that Beato wasn't obliged to answer with the red truth up until 24 o'clock on the 5th. Which meant that, let's say if the killer were to kill on the 4th and 5th, but somehow die before the clock reaches 24, Beato would have still been able to declare him dead with the red. As for the blue, again, it limited the player, since Beato only started using the red when forced by the blue text, unlike the previous games when she haded it out like candy. I remember wanting to throttle her when these two issues came out in ep 4.

[AuraTwilight]

The time limit and Blue Truth are both set so that Beatrice can't just NEVER answer a question that would hurt her if she did. Beatrice stopped handing Red Truth out so readily because she realized that 1) Battler was relying on it as a crutch and wasn't reasoning for himself and 2) It was too disadvantageous to her.

As Ange pointed out, without the Blue Truth rule, if Beatrice refuses to answer something, it doesn't tell us shit. Did she refuse to say something in Red because she couldn't, or because she didn't want to?

Atleast this way, we can be more certain that if Beato doesn't repeat something before the time limit is up, it's because she can't.

As for the time limit specifically, that is also for Battler's benefit. He just never uses it to his advantage at any point, ever.

[rogerpepitone]

Even with the blue text rule, Beatrice can still choose to hold back red text. Reread the Episode 4 ????. Bern & 34 had some red truths.

[AuraTwilight]

Yea, the problem being that Beatrice was trying to effectively commit assisted suicide. It is by no means the same thing.

In arguments in Chiru, where it's stuff like Battler VS Erika or whatever, that sort of thing doesn't happen.

[vandakiara]

So.. not really adding something to the character discussion itself here, but more like character design...

I was looking for some stocks to work with on my sigs when I found out this Touhou character named Onozuka Komachi - which I thought it was Ange until I saw the tags on the image...

Does anyone else finds them terribly alike?

Spoiler for Onozuka pic:

I know Ryuukishi likes Touhou but aren't they a bit too alike? :s You can argue that Jessica looks like Marisa, but I don't think they're this alike...

[Jan-Poo]

The fanart makes her look very similar to Ange, the original not so much.

[immblueversion]

I don't know if this is the best topic for talking about Ange, and it may sound incredibly naive, but...

Spoiler for EP8:

Ange has a tendency to die in the metaworld and come back to life. Take EP8, where one moment she kills herself and gets eaten by cats after learning the truth of Rokkenjima, and the next moment, she just kind of comes back to life in her parents' arms.

To quote the Joekage: Why? How? What?

[cmos]

Spoiler for ep8:

It maybe because in the real world she actually jumped from the skyscraper and died. She revived in various fictions, including our both endings.
Her death is always the same, just like other magically revived characters die.

In ep4 Battler's consciousness almost disappeared, but then Ange died and brought him back. Let's say in the real world it's Tohya almost healed from Battler's memory, but then Ange jumped from the skyscraper and made him remember again.

[AuraTwilight]

Spoiler for EP8:

Uh, guys, it's the META-WORLD. People die and come back literally all the time. As has been stressed from day one, a meta-character only dies when they stop thinking, and revive once they start thinking again. Dying is merely a fancy way of saying "I'm not playing anymore."

[immblueversion]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Spoiler for EP8:

Uh, guys, it's the META-WORLD. People die and come back literally all the time. As has been stressed from day one, a meta-character only dies when they stop thinking, and revive once they start thinking again.

Spoiler for EP8:

So then the sound of her parents, who may or may not have been heartless murderers who cared nothing for her, crying for her to come back to life is what got her thinking again?

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Spoiler for EP8:

Dying is merely a fancy way of saying "I'm not playing anymore."

Spoiler for EP8:

Sounds more like the other way around to me.

[AuraTwilight]

Pretty much. And the two causes/effects are probably mutually-causing; the Meta-World seems to like that sort of chicken/egg bullshit because it's METAPHORICAL. Logical causality literally doesn't mean anything.

[Judoh]

Not to be a partypooper, but the character threads are supposed to be anime only guys. VN spoilers are only allowed if you're comparing something that happens in the anime with something that happens later in the VN. And that's kind of difficult to do and loosely defined anyway. The Q&A and spoilers threads might be better suited for this discussion I think.

[cmos]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Spoiler for EP8:

Uh, guys, it's the META-WORLD. People die and come back literally all the time. As has been stressed from day one, a meta-character only dies when they stop thinking, and revive once they start thinking again. Dying is merely a fancy way of saying "I'm not playing anymore."

Spoiler for .:

Not really. It maybe true for high order pure meta-beings, such as Bern, but for common pieces and furniture it's different. They die when their existence is denied and/or their creator doesn't believe in their existence and can revive if he does.

[AuraTwilight]

Spoiler for Meta:

>Implying there's any sort of meaningful differences between the two, or that any of that terminology means anything consistently.

[Tsuki Aoi Usagi]

Regarding Ange's character...I always felt she was kind of dull/boring. I mean, I felt for her sometimes, but certain cases I just felt like she just didn't care or cared way too much. I also felt she was waaay into her magic stuff and because of that she pretty much essentially placed a sign on her forehead "BULLY ME." I mean, I know she didn't mean it, but singling herself out and not bothering trying to be social and make friends is pretty much just begging to be a sitting duck target for bullies. Bullies are less likely going to go after someone that other people would stand up for or would try to protect. I mean, I don't know if Ange really did try to make friends or not, but she essentially seemed to have the body language of that she didn't want to bother making friends and was more focused on her magic fantasies and her imaginary friends.

[UsagiTenpura]

I truly suggest you read arc 4 again, it explains why Ange has no friends.