To Aru Kagaku no Railgun - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Jin Kizuite

Still, whats with the flowers on Uihara's head? Will they ever explain that I wonder. DX

Poor fashion sense.

[MeisterBabylon]

Uiharu. Now stopping entropy. Tomorrow, screwing with it!

[Haak]

Well if there's anything we've learned from the Level Upper arc, it's that powers don't matter, so there.

[Minagi Mikoto]

Originally Posted by Jin Kizuite

Still, whats with the flowers on Uihara's head? Will they ever explain that I wonder. DX

Well, as I said in my comment if her power is a more general kind of power "Entropy Decreaser" , then it'd explain the living flowers on her head too. And at level 5 it'll be a complete extraordinary power matching Accelerator powers!

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

Uiharu. Now stopping entropy. Tomorrow, screwing with it!

You noticed it too! But entropy is not a process to be stopped.

Spoiler for second law of thermodynamics:

It remains constant or increases for isolated systems due to the second law of thermodynamics.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Minagi Mikoto

Well, as I said in my comment if her power is a more general kind of power "Entropy Decreaser" , then it'd explain the living flowers on her head too. And at level 5 it'll be a complete extraordinary power matching Accelerator powers!

Even as Level 5 she can't do much against Accel firewall.

You noticed it too! But entropy is not a process to be stopped.

Spoiler for second law of thermodynamics:

It remains constant or increases for isolated systems due to the second law of thermodynamics.

Her power is the conservation of heat at low level, she just can keep the thing at relatively warm.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Even as Level 5 she can't do much against Accel firewall.

Her power is the conservation of heat at low level, she just can keep the thing at relatively warm.

That's a pretty bold statement to make, given that you don't give an example of what your vision of a level 5 version of Uiharu's power would actually do to qualify as being a 'level 5 power.'

For speculation's sake, let's say that Uiharu's power were the ability to maintain the molecular agitation state ('temperature') of matter in her immediate vicinity at a constant level. At level 1, she is able to affect matter with agitation states not far removed from either her own body temperature or ambient temperature. This satisfies all observed and implied effects of her power.

We have also been given an example of a level 1 electromaster in the manga: one of the children Misaka ended up playing with before the Sisters arc. At best, the boy was barely able to produce a tiny, harmless spark of electricity. Compared to Uiharu, his power was markedly more useless, unless you can think of a way to make carpet static useful.

Given that example of a level 1 electromaster, and Misaka's example of a level 5 electromaster, i think the wild speculation regarding Uiharu's power is understandable. For instance, taking your comparison with Accelerator:

For speculation's sake, if Uiharu's power were, as stated above, to maintain the molecular agitation state ('temperature') of matter in her immediate vicinity at a constant level, how could that power expand, given greater understanding, calculation ability and stamina?

Two simple improvements that she might achieve in levels 2-4:
-She may become able to affect objects she is not in physical contact with.
-She may become able to affect objects with greater or lesser agitation states, allowing her to 'freeze' the agitation state of matter at higher or lower temperatures. (Note, i did not say increase or decrease agitation state. The 'constant state' part seems to be the most powerful and law breaking, and therefore most important part of her power.)

One complex improvement or 'breakthrough' that she might achieve at levels 4-5:
-She may make the mental connection between 'agitation state' > 'vibration' > 'motion,' allowing her to 'freeze' the motion vectors of matter at a constant state.

This above 'improvement' would essentially make her an 'anti-Accelerator.' She would have the power to 'freeze' the vectors of an object at a constant state: an object in motion would stay in motion along its preexisting vector until the power was turned off (aka. Constant Speed, an existing and possibly related power). Likewise, an object at rest would stay at rest, and would not be affected by changes to its vector state until the power was turned off; such an object would be immovable and possibly indestructible. Her power would be able to cancel out any and all of the things Accelerator can do.

But that's just one possible way her power could evolve into a 'Level 5 power.' Would you like to explain your version of how that would happen? I'd very much like to hear it - speculation is fun.

[taofd]

This comment has no bearing on the above comment. I've just been hearing people whining that Uiharu's power is fail.
In response to that...

uiharu's power defies the law of entropy... take it or leave it, whether or not it's useful or not in a practical setting has no bearing on the fact that her power allows her to defy a FUNDAMENTAL LAW OF PHYSICS.



Also, we need a Railgun: Fumoffu.

[Miraluka]

Fufufufu thats only speculation, to control more power she needs more calculation capacity and she doesn't showed any improve as her examinator said before in early episodes.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Fufufufu thats only speculation, to control more power she needs more calculation capacity and she doesn't showed any improve as her examinator said before in early episodes.

Yes; i in fact said i was only speculating no less than three times in that post alone, so you really don't need to point that out to me - really. I also mentioned that any development would require that she increase her calculation ability, stamina, understanding of her power, etc. So basically your answer boils down to: "Because there is no indication that Uiharu will ever be a level 5, there is no point in even speculating about what her power could do at level 5." Booooring...

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Alhazred

Yes; i in fact said i was only speculating no less than three times in that post alone, so you really don't need to point that out to me - really. I also mentioned that any development would require that she increase her calculation ability, stamina, understanding of her power, etc. So basically your answer boils down to: "Because there is no indication that Uiharu will ever be a level 5, there is no point in even speculating about what her power could do at level 5." Booooring...

FUfufufu don't be so dissapointed. By the time, I would like to speculate but you posted before I have made my edits -_____-U

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

FUfufufu don't be so dissapointed. By the time, I would like to speculate but you posted before I have made my edits -_____-U

Then by all means, speculate away; i would like to hear it. Just remember: Because the powers vary greatly, direct comparisons are virtually useless, so 'Levels' aren't precisely quantified measurements of ability. For a more easily understood scale, consider this: increasing one power level is sort of like Taking a Level in Badass. Being a Level 5 pretty much a guarantees that you are an incredible badass. Don't believe me? Look at what all of the Level 5 power users can do in a fight. So a Level 5 Uiharu cannot be lame or ineffectual, pretty much by definition...

[Miraluka]

Yeah I get but my previous point was that only creating that don't follow laws of this world, in other words science cheating.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Yeah I get but my previous point was that only creating that don't follow laws of this world, in other words science cheating.

...the rules of this world seem to dictate that power users can 'cheat' science by manipulating specific natural laws, forces or materials, and the specific laws, forces or materials they can manipulate determines what powers they can use. This breaks down a lot when you think about telepathy, which does not seem to have any applicable natural laws to manipulate - but it's a widely recognized 'psychic power,' and thus in genre.

You said "Her power is the conservation of heat at low level, she just can keep the thing at relatively warm." Is this statement meant to indicate that her power is incapable of developing beyond level one, because it specifically manipulates conservation of energy at a 'low level?'

That's like saying that a level one electromaster is "a power user that can manipulate electricity and magnetism at a low level." If powers were that specific, then there would be no power users like Misaka, who started at level 1 and worked her way up to level 5.

Any sort of power that directly manipulates the laws of thermodynamics is almost guaranteed to be monstrously powerful and dangerous at level 5.

[Miraluka]

Since is pseudo science most of the the things showed are possible in "theory", just happens that in our world there is no "devices or tools"(espers) to make the same of the novels

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Since is pseudo science most of the the things showed are possible in "theory", just happens that in our world there is no "devices or tools"(espers) to make the same of the novels

None of the powers displayed in this series are 'possible in theory.' They are all predicated on the idea that there is some way to directly manipulate the behavior of materials/forces/natural laws. This is not possible. Until someone proves that it's actually possible to affect measurable quantum mechanical events solely through the power of the human mind, this series is layers and layers of pseudo science wrapped around a core of pure fantasy.

That said, i still don't see why your pseudo science is any more plausible than anyone else's...

[Archon_Wing]

Rofl at the mask; such a great disguise. That was a nice ending to the episode.

[Minagi Mikoto]

@Alhazred

Freezing the velocity vectors of molecules of a matter, turn it's temperature to zero rather that keep it constant.

@Wilfriback If her power could manipulate entropy of a system (instead of just keeping them warm), she was pretty of a match to Accelerator, since his firewall can change vectors not esper abilities and not the entropy (which is a scalar quantity! ).

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Minagi Mikoto

@Alhazred

Freezing the velocity vectors of molecules of a matter, turn it's temperature to zero rather that keep it constant.

@Wilfriback If her power could manipulate entropy of a system (instead of just keeping them warm), she was pretty of a match to Accelerator, since his firewall can change vectors not esper abilities and not the entropy (which is a scalar quantity! ).

Spoiler:

He can control the AIM and so the power of the enemy.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Minagi Mikoto

@Alhazred

Freezing the velocity vectors of molecules of a matter, turn it's temperature to zero rather that keep it constant.

True... though if you extended that even further down, 'freezing' the vectors of an object on an absolute scale would cause matter to disintegrate as electrons broke from their orbits and went shooting off into the ether. The idea of 'motion' is always a function of the frame of reference. I was just using the kinetic energy relationship as an example of a way a power could evolve.

In order to render Uiharu's power into a 'simple' form and relate it to kinetic energy, you pretty much have to say that she has the ability to either create or destroy energy in the exact amounts necessary in order to maintain a system at its current 'temperature,' which begs the question: for what reason is she limited to creation/destruction at the specific rate necessary in order to maintain a system's total kinetic energy at the specific moment in time that she began interacting with it?

Originally Posted by Minagi Mikoto

@Wilfriback If her power could manipulate entropy of a system (instead of just keeping them warm), she was pretty of a match to Accelerator, since his firewall can change vectors not esper abilities and not the entropy (which is a scalar quantity! ).

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Spoiler:

He can control the AIM and so the power of the enemy.

Spoiler:

And a level 5 with the specific power to freeze vectors could freeze the vectors of Accelerator's AIM and render him totally powerless; who is more powerful? Alternately, a level 5 power user with the ability to manipulate the entropy of a system would be able to keep the system from becoming either more or less entropic, which totally precludes ordered control over that system; again, no AIM control, no power.

The point is, ALL powers become closer to 'universal control' as they approach level 6; any power user with the same level of ability (on an absolute scale) as Accelerator would theoretically be able to counter him, somehow. Come to think of it, Accelerator never even appears in To Aru Kagaku no Railgun, so why is he even being discussed?

[Minagi Mikoto]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Spoiler:

He can control the AIM and so the power of the enemy.

Isn't AIM the abbreviation for "An Involuntary Movement"? What this has to do with the subject?

Originally Posted by Alhazred

True... though if you extended that even further down, 'freezing' the vectors of an object on an absolute scale would cause matter to disintegrate as electrons broke from their orbits and went shooting off into the ether.
Come to think of it, Accelerator never even appears in To Aru Kagaku no Railgun, so why is he even being discussed?[/spoiler]

Yeah, I thought about it later too .

And I talked about Accelerator's power just to mention how potentially powerful Uiharu's ability can be. The other way to say it was "One of the powers that only Touma's right hand can overcome!" .