Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[DeotoxSlayer]

Originally Posted by ProtoMan

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one who is enjoying the love triangle for what it is, how it has evolved from a traditional bickering rival relationship, to a respect each other relationship, to an actual friends relationship, where both Yoshida and Shana improve each other while maintaining a more than cordial friendship. I enjoyed this episode from start to end... possibly because i always enjoyed S1 more for the peaceful moments and how Guze's and Earth's inhabitants interacted with each other than the battles. Aw well, to each to his own

I kinda like the love triangle too. I think the reason that people are getting so angry with the who love triangle, and "I'll win scenes" is because of the fillers, the fillers grew old real fast, and they kept stressing the love triangle too much. I prefer a balance between battles, and romance, and there's been like no good fights at all this season, and that's making some people impatiant, the fillers made this season seem more like some Romance/Harem anime, and that irittated people because it retracted away from what made S1 good, and fun to watch.

[taelrak]

Originally Posted by DeotoxSlayer

I kinda like the love triangle too. I think the reason that people are getting so angry with the who love triangle, and "I'll win scenes" is because of the fillers, the fillers grew old real fast, and they kept stressing the love triangle too much. I prefer a balance between battles, and romance, and there's been like no good fights at all this season, and that's making some people impatiant, the fillers made this season seem more like some Romance/Harem anime, and that irittated people because it retracted away from what made S1 good, and fun to watch.

I generally don't mind love triangles - especially since most of the anime I watch tend to have some element of romance and love triangles in them. Romance/harem animes can be incredibly entertaining and fun to watch. What makes Shana so bad is that it's a horrible romance anime.

1. Where's the triangle? Yuuji just sort of sits there while everyone else fights it out. Is he an object? Probably he's just too oblivious to notice. Still, 2 people do not make a love triangle.

2 The other issue is that there's no real growth in any of the characters throughout the series, but arguably quite a bit of backward progression. You see this a lot in Zero no Tsukaima too, so it's probably just a fault of the author to begin with. It's all good and well that there's the traditional, if a bit cliched, enemy->rival->respect for each other->friends development. However, the general idea is that you only go through this cycle once, and that even if you devolve into an earlier stage, it's very temporary and very minimal. This particular triangle, however, rehashes over ground already covered every other episode. It's not that they're not getting anywhere, it's that they go back and recover development that was already done in prior episodes. Okay, so Shana does change her dress once - i guess that's some progress.

I can analogize this to the DBZ style. They do the whole power-up thing once, and then they do it again the next episode, and then again, and then again, and of course they give a new name to it each time (stage 1, 2, 3, monkey-thing, whatever), but it's always the same old ground. Same with Shana here in the romance development.

It'd be one thing if they did either the action or the romance parts particularly well, but their presentation style is like Yuuji too - i.e. half-assed. As a result, the romance scenes aren't particularly good, and neither are the action scenes, and the sum of two inferior presentation styles doesn't add up to an overall good show.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Well, that was a pretty cool episode. I think Pheles should die now. I can totally see that happening. I have no idea what the heck is going on anymore, but it's awesome as hell.

And a bit off the topic of the main plot, I still find two characters hilarious: Wilhelmina's Tiamat and Margery's Marcosius. I think Tiamat is funny because she never ever has said more than two words or three syllables at one time. Wilhelmina, btw, needs to stop saying ~de arimasu. It's annoying. However, I get a kick out of Marco, because he's always saying "my ____ and ____, Margery Daw", getting puched by Margery, and generally being a pure riot. He's endlessly entertaining. XD

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

That's more like it.

Thank god those last two minutes happened which completely Ruined this episode. Also yet again it's the flashback scenes that really make this show for me. The BGM track played was very Ko Otani, and i Hated it.

Yeah, I was wondering why Pheles was so weak in the begining. I mean every one was so scared of this allmighty Being Pheles.

So at least that weak ( well not that weak) version was only a fraction of Her mightyness.

Also i was shocked. With her acting like that, i was thinking she was going to leave them for a bit, and suddenly a wicked ( in a cool way) Pheles apears and my heart explodes from the sudden rush and excitement


P.S. Nartuo should be done the same way too. At least after fillers and side stories, Shana gets back in to the real action. No jumping scenes in Shana and thats why i like it *_*.

[attobyte]

Considering the flashback scene, it really seems that Pheles created the reiji maigo while turning Johan into a mistes.
In this sense could it be that she used Johan existence as creation material ?
If that is the case, Joham not only was the first mistes to host the reiji maigo but he is also the reiji maigo himself.

[S_K]

The almighty Pheles has awakened!! DUN! DUN! DUUUN!
I knew Konoe Fumina would be playin an important role and in the preview was that gargoyle looking thing supposed to be Yuuji?

[X207]

ep 14 had a nice twist with pheles, the konoe/hecatenot so much. i expected hecate to come back a bit later but it doesnt matter much now. lol pheles sure was caught off guard with that hand. that gargoyle looks more like johan's personality took over yujis body ie same school uniform but face and appearnce taken over. one other thing i liked was that tanaka and oga got over hiding their feelings.

[Proto]

I knew Konoe Fumina would be playin an important role and in the preview was that gargoyle looking thing supposed to be Yuuji?

Refer to the last part of the 3rd episode of the second season

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by attobyte

Considering the flashback scene, it really seems that Pheles created the reiji maigo while turning Johan into a mistes.
In this sense could it be that she used Johan existence as creation material ?
If that is the case, Joham not only was the first mistes to host the reiji maigo but he is also the reiji maigo himself.

Yeah i was a little confused at the Reiji Maigo's creation.... Too much symbolism and not enough info on how the Reiji Maigo was created... It looked liked Pheles used the big clock as the material and somehow Johan floated into it...

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by ProtoMan

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one / one of the very few who is/are enjoying the love triangle for what it is, how it has evolved from a traditional bickering rival relationship, to a respect each other relationship, to an actual friends relationship, where both Yoshida and Shana improve each other while maintaining a more than cordial friendship. I enjoyed this episode from start to end... possibly because i always enjoyed S1 more for the peaceful moments and how Guze's and Earth's inhabitants interacted with each other than the battles. Aw well, to each to his own

Nah you aren't the only one. I for one find it more refreshing that their relationship is deepening. I can honestly say that I do not care who would get Yuji at the end, the friendship between these two is something that is beneficial for both of them.

And although I think Yuji sometimes is as thick as concrete, I can say that for now the relationships aren't moving at the pace they should mainly because of the gravity of the events occurring. Like someone has said before, Shana's confessions or possible relationship development is put off by a major event.

I liked this ep and look forward to 15. 8/10

[Tyabann]

Does it bother anyone else that all Yuji appears to do, EVER, is scream like a little girl?

[HayashiTakara]

The whole Shana x Yuuji relationship should've been solidified at the end of 1st season. In the second season, It should've been them getting use to being a couple, and what it means to be in a man x woman relationship, on top of being involved in some crazy action. It would've made the show a lot more interesting...

I think season one already taken care of the job of Shana and Yuuji working out their feelings, its about high time they moved on to the next stage... unfortunately not many anime does this... its always the dog chasing the car... its never what the dog does with the car if / when he manages to catch it... I would like to see that for a change.


edit

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Does it bother anyone else that all Yuji appears to do, EVER, is scream like a little girl?

yes... and its starting to piss me off, he suppose to have godly powers and have been training for the soul purpose of using those powers, and all his big talk, "I WILL FIGHT!" is all BS, since the first enemy he runs into he piss his pants and screams.

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Does it bother anyone else that all Yuji appears to do, EVER, is scream like a little girl?

What else can he do in that situation?

[Proto]

The whole Shana x Yuuji relationship should've been solidified at the end of 1st season. In the second season, It should've been them getting use to being a couple, and what it means to be in a man x woman relationship, on top of being involved in some crazy action. It would've made the show a lot more interesting...

Since the last arc of the first season was non-novel-cannon, the only thing that they could do was twisting the story a little so that the confession never happened. Unfortunately they almost went the literal way with this, but in any case you should blame S1 for introducing things that the S2 had to mend later

since the first enemy he runs into he piss his pants and screams.

Having him come out of the training grounds in order to fight one of the most powerful Crimzon Denizens of all history, and coupling it with a life or death situation out of the blue isn't the best way to have him build character though I would also prefer for him to show some training results, but I've also got to accept that the circumstances haven't helped >-<

[HayashiTakara]

At the very least, I'm glad they made Shana show that she's actually in love with Yuuji, they could've easily made her into an angry person that shouts and beats him all the time refusing to acknowledge that she is in love with him.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

What else can he do in that situation?

Blast her with PoE? He's done it before...

[Guido]

While this episode was not a breakthrough in terms of action and shock in contrast to the previous episode, it was highly enjoyable to me for two factors.

1. First, I have grown to praise and love how the dynamics between Shana and Kazumi's love rivalry have evolved into mutual understanding and friendship for the other. Both have acknowledged in their own ways that they love Yuuji: 1) Shana in the world of Flame Haze and 2) Kazumi in the world of humans, as she shown to Pheles.

To me I believe the triangular relationship has reached the platonic stage where those three share and feel mutual blessings, mutual care, and mutual communication. It all would depend at the end on the choice that Shana, Yuuji, and Kazumi would decide upon to lead whom among those three will become the official couple.

2. Second, Pheles twist.

Spoiler:

Kazumi opened her heart to let Pheles know how she feels the same way for Yuuji as the latter does for Johan.

But, I never have thought that the cast actually interacted with Pheles's avatar. The real one chose to stay quiet and observe the situation, until building a convenient situation where everyone let their guard down that would allow her to sneak right to Yuuji upon her arrival.

I cannot imagine how Kazumi felt devastated and betrayed that Pheles used her feelings to distract her in order to get right to Yuuji. I, myself, felt squashed because at one moment I felt sympathy for Pheles upon watching her flashback, but that compassionate built toward her crumbled the moment she threw out her facade.

What did Sabrac put into the Reiji Maigo? or more specifically, what effects the insignia casted upon provoked on the Reiji Maigo?

Spoiler:

That right arm that came from within Yuuji clearly belongs to the silver.

The Keeper supposedly suffered a mutation and likely was from the insignia that Sabrac casted upon the Reiji Maigo.

But, how come the silver be inside Yuuji, unless the keeper has turned into the Silver.

And finally, for having unattended the Konoe affair for quite a time, next episode reveals Konoe's true identity.

[AuditionEX]

Please answer meh so I can continue watchin shana..

Spoiler:

Is the suspicious transferred student (forgot the name).. is Hecate?

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Blast her with PoE? He's done it before...

Yuuji can barely use his POE to cast a Fuzetsu and reinforce some part of his body to lessened/nullify the attacks dealt on him.

However, his POE doesn't grant him a fearless position. Psychology is very important in such matter, and I don't think anyone can blame Yuuji to be freaked out completely as his "body" is frightened to death by Pheles' presence/aura and intention.
The first time was a mere image, and Yuuji flipped as he felt he will be utterly destroyed, completely ignored by the green haired tomogara.

Here, we got true Pheles going happy extracting on him, while he doesn't have any way to protect himself. A fuzetsu wouldn't help and Yuuji obviously doesn't have any clue nor knowledge to "how to blast a crazy tomogara, before getting utterly demolished".

That's a overwhelming instinctive fear He got, which is quite logical. (any calm or retaliation attempt would look awkward or wrong in fact)

Originally Posted by AuditionEX

Please answer meh so I can continue watchin shana..

Spoiler:

Is the suspicious transferred student (forgot the name).. is Hecate?

No one has a definite person, but this episode grants surely a sufficent hint to figure out the answer.
At worst, just look forward the next episode.

[teachopvutru]

Just watched this episode. It wasn't as bad as I had thought it would be, even if there weren't the twist toward the end. The beginning of this episode is spent for the characters to reminisce about their situations. I almost felt embarrassed watching this episode though, when it gets to this whole 'love' deal, while wondering how these people are able to say stuffs like that. The reminder of Shana vs Kazumi didn't bother me as much. If anything, I think a few "I'll win"s prior to this should be removed rather than the one in this episode.

The twist didn't feel much as a surprise to me since I was pretty much spoiled by this thread. I don't find Yuji's reaction at the end questionable either, although I do wonder about what he's capable of. In season 1, I do remember that he killed something while protecting Keisaku. Granted, that thing wasn't anywhere as strong.

My complain is really the character design. while it isn't bad, the character design in the OP looks a whole lot better. My other complain is how J.C.Staff. pretty much spoil (again) the good parts of the next episode. I would prefer it more if they give us just a glance. Some people may say otherwise but that's only my preference.

Otherwise, this episode feels like missing something... Not sure what it is myself, and the flashback on Pheles's past is too short.

Originally Posted by DeotoxSlayer

I kinda like the love triangle too. I think the reason that people are getting so angry with the who love triangle, and "I'll win scenes" is because of the fillers, the fillers grew old real fast, and they kept stressing the love triangle too much. I prefer a balance between battles, and romance, and there's been like no good fights at all this season, and that's making some people impatiant, the fillers made this season seem more like some Romance/Harem anime, and that irittated people because it retracted away from what made S1 good, and fun to watch.

Maybe the shortcoming is from them finding the Pheles arc an ideal one to remind viewers of the love triangle relationship but stressing it too soon? (well, it was reminded of since the beginning of the season )