2014-06-17, 12:59 | Link #201 |
On a mission
Author
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Well, just hit the report button if you feel people are being abusive or are dragging this into off topic spoiler territory. It most likely will hit a cyclical discussion as well if this keeps up.
One thing to remember is that the quote button is not a "duel" button. You aren't required to reply to everyone that replies to you as it is an open conversation, and sometimes people don't put any effort into their replies, so nor should you put any effort in any given rebuttals. A lot of people seem to feel that if they don't provide a rebuttal to every single post that their point is invalid, and that would just be an endless game of "who won't shut the fuck up". It can be entertaining, but if you present your thoughts clearly enough this isn't really that big of an issue. Generally, if someone replies in a callous, poorly thought out fashion to me, I usually just reply to them with a one liner regardless if it makes sense or not, or not at all. Because a well thought out one liner is better than 5 pages of nonsense. Of course, I follow the #1 rule of Player vs Forum, and that is each reply demands an equal quality of effort in replying. Why bother engaging in thoughtful discussion when other people just dismiss anything they don't like?
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2015-06-03, 20:01 | Link #202 |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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Bumping this thread for an important question: Why are detailed summaries for LNs now restricted? I just heard this from the Mahouka subforum, where mods intervened about detailed summaries of just-released light novel volumes, and apparently this extends to material that has no known or existing English license/s.
Can someone please explain the reasons behind this?
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2015-06-03, 20:19 | Link #203 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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I suppose since it's a textual medium, posting detailed summaries is almost like posting the actual translations, which they don't want. So this is actually more of a licensing policy issue rather than a spoiler policy issue. |
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2015-06-03, 22:12 | Link #204 |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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Does posting summaries actually infringe licenses in any way?
It's just a summary, though. From someone who probably got a copy of their work, to add. Man, I really don't understand copyright and licensing. To me, the entire concept is too focused on NA to actually matter.
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2015-06-04, 02:55 | Link #205 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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It depends on what you define as a "summary". If it's just to give you a very quick overview of the content or to answer specific questions/issues, that's one thing. But if it's basically a play-by-play of absolutely everything that happens, why would someone then read/buy the book? They've extracted everything you need to know by just reading the summary. That sort of "summary" is really just an abridged translation. It's the difference between condensing a 2 hour movie into a trailer-length highlight reel, and creating a 1-hour re-cut that just contains all the "good parts" and cuts out the "filler". And in the case of novels, we'd rather those not be posted interlined in the threads (where it'd be a huge mess to remove if requested), but linked in the opening post like the rest of the translations.
So basically: brief summary/highlights = okay, extensive summary/re-telling = treated as a translation.
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2015-06-04, 11:50 | Link #206 |
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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How extensive a summary are we talking about here? From the sound of it, you'd think wikipedia is completely illegal. A one/two pages summary is never going to be a substitute for a 200 pages novel. Not for anybody.
And just to be clear, this doesn't apply to manga and anime, does it? Reading a summary, no matter how detailed it is, is never going to replace looking at the actual drawings or animation. I think it's already far-fetched enough you're applying that rule to novels, applying it to visual mediums would be plain retarded. Reading summaries for these types of release in fact increase the anticipation for the real thing.
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2015-06-05, 00:35 | Link #208 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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The sort of summary you'd see on Wikipedia, or any short synopsis of a large block of content, is totally fine. This sort of thing is covered under Fair Use. Quote:
Same with manga. If you need to post an image of one page or frame because it's essential to have a conversation about that very thing, that may be fine (so long as it doesn't advertise an illegal site). But if you're posting an image of almost every single frame or scene and summarizing everything shown in a chapter... you might as well have just posted the actual manga at that rate. (And by the way, this sort of thing has happened before too.) More or less the focus should be on talking about the thing, not reposting it or translations of it here. For unlicensed works, the translations (and these sorts of detailed summaries/retellings) could be linked in the opening post.
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2015-06-05, 11:20 | Link #209 |
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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Alright, got it. Everything's totally fine then. I don't follow Light Novels and much less read their threads, so I had no idea people went this far. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised though, I've noticed Light novel fanbases tend to be a bit more... extreme than others, for some reason.
Good to know nothing has changed for anime and manga.
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2015-06-05, 20:03 | Link #210 | ||
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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As for availability, talk to me about it. The only license that seem to matter in the world of anime is from NORTH AMERICA. (Even Crunchyroll, which seems to be the only Internet streaming service for anime for some, can't serve their business in Southeast Asia.) If they actually wanted to make this available to everyone, then every single country could have gotten the license. But NOPE, only America gets it. Because of this limitation in licensing, you really can't blame people for resorting to the stuff you're trying to isolate from the site. But of course, the people issuing those DMCA warnings don't understand or deliberately ignore these little facts.
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2015-06-05, 21:16 | Link #211 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2014
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The thing is Animesuki servers are located in the US so they are liable to violating USA copyright laws. At least, this is what i understand and why the staff is so cautious. Also, the specific summaries that relentlessflame is referencing were summaries of two volumes of a certain LN that were about 50-60 pages long (yes, as a summary). They were made because no english translation existed for them though and obviously js06 can't translate everything (lol) While i disagree that they replace the actual book themselves since they are missing all the small details and the stylistic features of the author's writing, i do understand that not everyone likes reading as much as i do and will use those 50-60 pages as replacement for reading 500-600 worth of pages. |
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2015-06-05, 23:20 | Link #212 | |||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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It's not like this policy is going to stop the material from existing on the Internet, or that suddenly it's like "oh no, now there is no way to find anything on the Internet because it's not linked at the top of the AnimeSuki thread". But our policy has always been that, once the work is licensed, we won't allow links to it anymore to help encourage people to support the release where they can. So we're just following that same principle across the board. You might think that policy is stupid (and I too think that territorial licensing is an antiquated system that can't die soon enough)... but that's what the site owner is comfortable having on his server, and what the policy has been here for 10+ years, so I think we'll survive this.
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2015-06-11, 11:49 | Link #213 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Hexagone Française
Age: 34
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Ok, I'm doing this because its seems mods/admins do not understand their own rules.
On "Ore ga ojou sama thread (LN)" people used to post some spoilers or little summaries focused only on how the relationships works and that's it but mods insist on deleting the summaries/spoilers for random reasons. The LN is not licensed I repeat The LN is not licensed, there is nobody translating (the previous TL group drop the LN) and the only source of information are those people who can read moon runes and some other guys who get pieces of information from another place. There is literally ZERO violations of the rule, there is nothing to say "we delete the summaries and spoilers for X reason" so, can you guys please read again your rules and get a better understanding about it? because all what are you doing is letting people without any kind of information to discuss and this is a FORUM, that means, a place where people can share information and discuss about it. Please, stop doing this you're killing your own forum. |
2015-06-11, 12:06 | Link #214 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
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2015-06-11, 12:16 | Link #215 | ||
Working Hard
Join Date: Sep 2012
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2015-06-11, 12:22 | Link #216 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Hexagone Française
Age: 34
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All what relentlessflame does is giving Marcus an excuse, not an answer. Mahouka situation is very different from what I'm asking, also comparing the rule with Shomin Sample situation there is no reason to delete 10+ pages just because they don't understand the rule.
Even relentless said "once the work is licensed" and here that doesn't happen. |
2015-06-11, 13:05 | Link #217 | |||
Yuri µ'serator
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: FL, USA
Age: 36
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Which is why such things are only permitted at the start of the thread as RF explained: Quote:
It's really not a difficult policy to follow or understand. Quote:
And no one can see the future on what will and won't get licensed, so we play it better safe than sorry as that's what the admin wants.
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2015-06-11, 13:14 | Link #218 | ||
Working Hard
Join Date: Sep 2012
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Meanwhile, if I read it correctly from relentlessflame post above. Especially this line: Quote:
With this people can be productive. Also there is a benefit that if someone asking summary in the future, we could tell them to look at the first post. And if there are a kind heart that wanna translate the LN, they already the blog as a place for hosting the translation. |
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2015-06-11, 14:17 | Link #219 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Hexagone Française
Age: 34
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Playing safe for mods and admins means people can't discuss anything based on spoilers or summaries in this forum, I see, and all that just because "it will probably get licensed in the future".
@Konakaga you can easily ask to everyone on shomin sample thread about the spoilers/summaries related just to pieces of info getting deleted, and all that was almost 10 pages. Do not lie to everyone there. Also lazy are the people who delete even 1 phrase pointing a fact just because you don't even know what a spoiler is. @Ices, the info on every thread in this forum comes in PARTS, that means you cant get everything summarized on the first page because is really hard, specially in LN's with 9+ volumes, yeah people can create a pastebin or things like that but even external links are getting deleted so what's the point on doing that? Last edited by RaymondSageClark; 2015-06-11 at 14:28. |
2015-06-11, 14:37 | Link #220 | ||
Administrator
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Age: 41
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I haven't seen the posts in question and we can try to find them. But if they are the sort of summary I described above (summaries that might as well be translations), then we want them to be in the opening post, not inline in the thread. Being inline makes it hard for fellow discussion participants to find, and also hard for us to find if need be. Quote:
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faq, spoiler policy, spoilers |
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