Macross - Music discussion (Part 1, pre-Delta)

[BanishingBook]

^ - it's her debut so first impressions last, eh?

I personally think May'n is too skinny to dance and as for Megumi, she's bigger than May'n so I wouldn't like her to move too much, just a few hand waves would do and some strides hey that's a fair performance for me.

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by forgottendiary

May'n looks awkward when she dances? Clearly, you haven't seen Nakajima dance.

Umm, yeah I have. At the Yoko Kanno "Super Dimension Tanabata" concert in Saitama last July.

The six-minute "Seikan Hikou" was a highlight of the show. So was the eight- or nine-minute "Diamond Crevasse," but May'n didn't dance for that one.

[forgottendiary]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Umm, yeah I have. At the Yoko Kanno "Super Dimension Tanabata" concert in Saitama last July.

The six-minute "Seikan Hikou" was a highlight of the show. So was the eight- or nine-minute "Diamond Crevasse," but May'n didn't dance for that one.

Was she very stiff? Were her shoulders hunched forwards? Cuz if she were as stiff as she is @ Budokan then I rest my case. You have indeed seen her dance.

I don't see DC ever being danced to. Perhaps choreo-ed ones, but I'd rather not see any dance moves added into a performance of it.

[ippus]

Originally Posted by forgottendiary

Was she very stiff? Were her shoulders hunched forwards? Cuz if she were as stiff as she is @ Budokan then I rest my case. You have indeed seen her dance.

I don't see DC ever being danced to. Perhaps choreo-ed ones, but I'd rather not see any dance moves added into a performance of it.

She was actually DECENT in Budokan if it weren't for her fish gape expression every time she catches a break from singing;

Otherwise it was better than the crap she did on debut.


I still refuse to believe a series of cutesy poses = dance.

And if anything Seikan Hikou should be 'danced' like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgjvqKzvif4

Also today I have finally understood what bugs me so mucha bout Megumi's cutesy act.

SHE'S LIKE A KINDERGARTEN MUSIC TEACHER.
Or those terrible childrens' 'educational' tv show hosts in their terrible outfits and childish songs and painful 'dancing'.

THAT'S WHAT SHE REMINDS ME OF.

[mike_s_6]

I personally find all this talk about how the artists look like, the way they are made to dress, and other things, quite distasteful. Not only does it not talk about the music itself, it also seems to be the case that people are siding onto the artist who sings the voice of their choice character.

Just to counterpoint some comments above, Megumi is indeed pretty. She has an upturned wide smile, straight teeth, and her eyes curl into a mild expression when she smiles. She also has a shapely face with moderately high cheek bones. Her figure isn't bad either.

And why is it the case that when Megumi is dressed badly, it gets so much spotlight, when it's obvious that she's just acting out a role that has been handed down to her? Just like her, May'n seems to have been handed down the role of stylish diva, which I personally think is not her true character, and does not fit her either:



May'n is a sweet girl who dresses up like one, and acts like one in real life. When she tries to project Sheryl in live performances, with her facial expressions and dances, I personally think she does not do too well either. But do people blame her for it the way and laugh, the way they blame and laugh at Megumi?

And now coming onto the singing itself. May'n sounds scratchy live. To quote one of my friends who is a professional singer, she sounds like she doesn't warm up before her songs, which makes her voice scratchy, shrill, and thin. As compared to her recorded songs, her live voice sounds more shrill. Just listen to her live DC and the recorded one. I don't want to say that her recordings are much padded with ProTools, but that's what it seems to be.

Megumi on the other hand, is able to keep her bell tone which is very pleasing in both recorded and live versions. With the additional power and emotion she puts out in live performances, I definitely side with her for live performances.

[forgottendiary]

*clears throat*

It's called, show business. You have your star, you have the fans and you have the haters and so on and so forth.
As a May'n fan, I am most sure I can exercise my bias.
And so I do. And I'll keep on looking at the things I think will conform to what I fancy.
It doesn't even need to be objective. Heck, is there such a thing as objective to begin with?
We all do this. Perhaps some do it more than others but we all do it nonetheless.
Anyway, whatever.

[mike_s_6]

Originally Posted by forgottendiary

Anyway, whatever.

Just like you, I am offering a critique of the artist, biased or not. I am just trying to voice out, just like some others, the alternative line of thought regarding this. If someone doesn't buy into my philosophy, I wouldn't mind either, we all have our ways of thinking.

[justavisitor]

But a fan of one songstress does not have to be the hater of the other songstress right??

I like Megumi better, but I never bash May'n and I like both of their songs

Anyway, as you said, whatever

[forgottendiary]

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

Just like you, I am offering a critique of the artist, biased or not. I am just trying to voice out, just like some others, the alternative line of thought regarding this. If someone doesn't buy into my philosophy, I wouldn't mind either, we all have our ways of thinking.

Fair enough. Never said anything otherwise.

Originally Posted by justavisitor

But a fan of one songstress does not have to be the hater of the other songstress right??

I like Megumi better, but I never bash May'n and I like both of their songs

Anyway, as you said, whatever

You see, Megumi can't get my brain to release any bit of endorphins every time I see/listen to her. When I bash her, however, heh, boy do I feel soooo good.

[pagan poor]

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

I personally find all this talk about how the artists look like, the way they are made to dress, and other things, quite distasteful. Not only does it not talk about the music itself, it also seems to be the case that people are siding onto the artist who sings the voice of their choice character.

Just for the record, I like both girls. They entertained me well enough in the concert.

I enjoyed the music well enough where I didn't really care to nitpick on things (aside from the clothing choices). But the fact that they are singing side by side will bring out comparisions, one way or another.

And why is it the case that when Megumi is dressed badly, it gets so much spotlight, when it's obvious that she's just acting out a role that has been handed down to her? Just like her, May'n seems to have been handed down the role of stylish diva, which I personally think is not her true character, and does not fit her either:

Agreed. I will only attest my comment earlier regarding dressing based on the shots I saw of the concert. What they wear outside of the concert doesn't have any bearing on what I commented earlier.

[BetoJR]

Now, now, I don't have a single problem with any points brought forth so far - and I actually don't really care about any of the girls personally, but merely as artists (and then, I do like them both, while preferring May'n), but...

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

May'n sounds scratchy live.

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

Megumi on the other hand, is able to keep her bell tone which is very pleasing in both recorded and live versions.

This is completely and entirely up to one's own personal opinion. I, for one, am on the completely opposite end of the spectrum, by the way. May'n performing live completely outsings anyone alongside her (even very loud singers like Yoshiki Fukuyama), and you say her voice comes out thin?
Also, I find most live renditions of Diamond Crevasse made by her to be completely gorgeous - even while not outshining the recordings they come close, in comparison. Naturally, IMHO, and I'm not a professional singer or anything, merely a fan of good music.

As for Mamegu's tone, obviously it's the same live and on the recordings. She only has one.

Please don't shoot me.

[mike_s_6]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

and you say her voice comes out thin?

It's "thin" as opposed to "round", and not as opposed to "loud". I do think that May'n's strength, which sells her the best, is her vocal emotion. In between vocal tone and emotion, the latter is harder to gain, because tone is somewhat inborn. But as a personal preference, I like both tone and emotion in balance, that's why for me, Megumi takes the cake, but only during live performances.

As for Mamegu's tone, obviously it's the same live and on the recordings. She only has one.

Please don't shoot me.

You're right there, I like her, but she's a one trick pony. I have heard May'n sing in two kinds of tones, and the one she used to use before in singing ballads is the one that I like better. It's lower and fuller. I feel a bit sad that she doesn't pull it off that much recently, in the same way that Megumi does not (or does not get to) sing with her natural tone on record.

[ippus]

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

I personally find all this talk about how the artists look like, the way they are made to dress, and other things, quite distasteful. Not only does it not talk about the music itself, it also seems to be the case that people are siding onto the artist who sings the voice of their choice character.

That's an assumption you're making just because it's convenient. I dislike Nakajima far more than I dislike Ranka. The reason? Ranka is a cartoon character. Her faults are the faults of her creator, script writer and director. Nakajima on the other hand is a real person whose actions are pretty much her responsibility. I don't mix up Ranka with Nakajima.

Talking "about how the artists look like, the way they are made to dress, and other things" may be distasteful to you, but it's what happens when you put your face out into the public- you either get squeels of joy or extreme scrutiny.

It's called show business, and this is why a good public image is so important.

Back on May'N's outdoor LIVE "Northern Cross" show I was pretty damn relentless about her clothes and terrible stage choreography. It looked like something a person in her late 30s suffering from mid-life crisis would wear with the rag blob street-wear and strange flower stuck in her head. Oh and the hulking, the great nanny hulking.

There was that other convention show too where she came in this hideous cowgirl prostitute outfit with back up dancers all armed with candy canes.
*headdesks*

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

Just to counterpoint some comments above, Megumi is indeed pretty. She has an upturned wide smile, straight teeth, and her eyes curl into a mild expression when she smiles. She also has a shapely face with moderately high cheek bones. Her figure isn't bad either.

I don't think anyone's ever called her ugly?
Sure I don't think she's the hawtest girl alive but I'm a girl >_> AND I'm asian.
Girls who look like Nakajima could be seen in the streets.

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

And why is it the case that when Megumi is dressed badly, it gets so much spotlight, when it's obvious that she's just acting out a role that has been handed down to her? Just like her, May'n seems to have been handed down the role of stylish diva, which I personally think is not her true character, and does not fit her either:



May'n is a sweet girl who dresses up like one, and acts like one in real life. When she tries to project Sheryl in live performances, with her facial expressions and dances, I personally think she does not do too well either. But do people blame her for it the way and laugh, the way they blame and laugh at Megumi?

Because while May'N reserves her Sheryl DIVA persona for the stage and album image, Nakajima reverts to Ranka on almost every attainable segment available. She makes children dances, makes cutesy songs, wears unfitting attire, talks to a video camera on "Ranka-mode" and 'designs' bright pink hearts and wings VF-25s.

My annoyance with Nakajima, is the fact she and whoever is responsible takes this image much too far.

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

And now coming onto the singing itself. May'n sounds scratchy live. To quote one of my friends who is a professional singer, she sounds like she doesn't warm up before her songs, which makes her voice scratchy, shrill, and thin. As compared to her recorded songs, her live voice sounds more shrill. Just listen to her live DC and the recorded one. I don't want to say that her recordings are much padded with ProTools, but that's what it seems to be.

Megumi on the other hand, is able to keep her bell tone which is very pleasing in both recorded and live versions. With the additional power and emotion she puts out in live performances, I definitely side with her for live performances.

Have you seen the Budokan Diamond Crevasse encore duet >_>?
Throughout her parts, Megumi's been either completely off tune or strained. When the more singable parts came she went flat on all the end notes. While I can let off the first few notes as her "trying to keep herself from crying" or even "the song is difficult to get straight into in the first place", but she cooled down nearer the end of the song and it still was the same. Same flat, same thin same off.

There's a reason why Megumi "keep[s] her bell tone", it's because she rarely EVER sings outside of her vocal range which is...not very large. Even in the Citaron song, her range is very short. As for May'N, she usually sings songs with pretty massive range, and belts her comfortable notes really loudly which makes the transitions between her higher, mid and lower cords slightly strained. Even then, at the very least she sings each pitch in a heart felt way unlike Megumi who- when finally tired as seen in the final Medley- goes flat. Totally flat.

Furthermore May'N actually improves as she does more LIVEs. Her first Diamond Crevasse LIVE sounded really constipated >_> I was pretty disappointed back then, but in June there was this: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnkQgpXj8fM) Which I was honestly quite happy with (asides from the hiccuping hahhahahaha they were a little distracting). Her "Northern Cross" LIVE sings are always incredible, and her getups are getting increasingly cuter in a normal fashioned way (I want her long jackets ;____; !!!!).


I couldn't stand May'N before, but I converted as her image took a better shape. Nakajima however >_________________________>



@justavisitor: Being a fan of one songstress doesn't require hating the other, but I choose to hate the other because I find her songs mediocre and in the case of her original songs, terribly composed. I also hate her image and supposed 'dance' routines.

Just because I like one songstress, doesn't mean I'm not allowed to hate the other

[mike_s_6]

Originally Posted by ippus

There was that other convention show too where she came in this hideous cowgirl prostitute outfit with back up dancers all armed with candy canes.
*headdesks*

Now there, I thought she looked okay in that cowgirl outfit

but in June there was this: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnkQgpXj8fM) Which I was honestly quite happy with (asides from the hiccuping hahhahahaha they were a little distracting). Her "Northern Cross" LIVE sings are always incredible, and her getups are getting increasingly cuter in a normal fashioned way (I want her long jackets ;____; !!!!).

Now I agree with those you said about their voices, Megumi also is faster in getting tired, which shows how much of an amateur she still is. I liked her Sou Da Yo live, but in the lower notes, she was off-key.

Not meaning to be such a critic, but if you could hear, in the video you posted, there is a lot of echo, which is regularly used to create a rich tone. It's also the most common effect used in post-recording to make voices sound richer, and depending on the location and broadcasting effects, could be mimicked in live performances. If we use the Budokan Live with two singers singing in the same kind of setup, the difference is heard.

[ippus]

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

Now there, I thought she looked okay in that cowgirl outfit

Egads, it was SO tacky XD
I know it's only a convention but STILL

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

Now I agree with those you said about their voices, Megumi also is faster in getting tired, which shows how much of an amateur she still is. I liked her Sou Da Yo live, but in the lower notes, she was off-key.

Not meaning to be such a critic, but if you could hear, in the video you posted, there is a lot of echo, which is regularly used to create a rich tone. It's also the most common effect used in post-recording to make voices sound richer, and depending on the location and broadcasting effects, could be mimicked in live performances. If we use the Budokan Live with two singers singing in the same kind of setup, the difference is heard.

I wasn't sure which DC you were referring to before, and since I already mentioned the Budokan LIVE when talking about Nakajima, I was just putting out her usual DC LIVE recordings since most of the DCs are done in echo (and because it sounds gorgeous *A* one of my favourite DC live recordings for the time being)

With the Budokan version though, I give her the same handicaps as I give Nakajima. The two of them had sung a lot of songs at this point and, frankly DC is a terribly difficult song to start up on, seeing as it starts on a high note right on the get go. It's not all that surprising that she starts off a little scratchy- but she did warm back into the song. On the other hand, Nakajima didn't hit the note at all X'D

Even still, I admit I'm not particularly fond of the Budokan encore DC. I always enjoyed the moments when the chorus sped up and you feel this wonderful sense of trilling urgency. You just didn't get that rush on this one since they kept it all at the same/similar tempo >___>

[Mei19]

Originally Posted by ippus

It's not all that surprising that she starts off a little scratchy- but she did warm back into the song. On the other hand, Nakajima didn't hit the note at all X'D

If you didn't notice, she was crying when she sung that part.

I personally find all this talk about how the artists look like, the way they are made to dress, and other things, quite distasteful. Not only does it not talk about the music itself, it also seems to be the case that people are siding onto the artist who sings the voice of their choice character.

As do I. But like what's said. If it's JUST because of a petty fanatical bias that they do these things, thennn we can't rationalize with that way of thinking. It sickens me but well...that's how it is. HaterS exist in showbiz whether we loves it or not.

[ippus]

Originally Posted by Mei19

If you didn't notice, she was crying when she sung that part.

If you didn't notice:

Originally Posted by ippus

Have you seen the Budokan Diamond Crevasse encore duet >_>?
Throughout her parts, Megumi's been either completely off tune or strained. When the more singable parts came she went flat on all the end notes. While I can let off the first few notes as her "trying to keep herself from crying" or even "the song is difficult to get straight into in the first place", but she cooled down nearer the end of the song and it still was the same. Same flat, same thin same off.

And she hasn't cried yet at that point. Actually she hasn't cried at all?
The shiny things you see are eye makeup and face sweat;

[forgottendiary]

Originally Posted by Mei19

If you didn't notice, she was crying when she sung that part.



As do I. But like what's said. If it's JUST because of a petty fanatical bias that they do these things, thennn we can't rationalize with that way of thinking. It sickens me but well...that's how it is. HaterS exist in showbiz whether we loves it or not.

Rationalize? Wow, really? Did you actually think rationalizing would make something such as being a fan or a hater objective? Sorry to burst your bubble but since rationalization is a train of thought, that makes it subjective. How then will you be able to step out of the opinion zone and observe things from a value-free POV?

You can't.

If that sickens you, well, too bad. You'll be in semi-eternal state of sickness. You, I and everyone else will just have to suck it up.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by ippus

Because while May'N reserves her Sheryl DIVA persona for the stage and album image, Nakajima reverts to Ranka on almost every attainable segment available. She makes children dances, makes cutesy songs, wears unfitting attire, talks to a video camera on "Ranka-mode" and 'designs' bright pink hearts and wings VF-25s.

Exactly, while every performer has a fake/stage persona Megumi's just goes too far, I'm hoping a day comes when she can actually be more herself.. it's not like her "Ranka Lee IRL" act is doing much for her outside of Macross anyway.. just like how Ranka couldn't compare to Minmay, Megumi can't compare to Iijima Mari (10 top 5 albums in a row after Macross, or was it 5?) And it's kinda sad someone with her potential couldn't even stand out in Basquash's idol group Eclipse with seiyuu singers in Tomatsu Haruka and Hayami Saori.

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Exactly, while every performer has a fake/stage persona Megumi's just goes too far, I'm hoping a day comes when she can actually be more herself.. it's not like her "Ranka Lee IRL" act is doing much for her outside of Macross anyway.. just like how Ranka couldn't compare to Minmay, Megumi can't compare to Iijima Mari (10 top 5 albums in a row after Macross, or was it 5?)

Isn't it kind of unfair to compare Mari's album sales (1983-87) to someone who hasn't even made her first album yet...? I thought megumi's first single sucked, but the second was better. If she keeps getting better material, her first album should be worthwhile at least.

Plus, Mari's a different type of idol, since she has always written her own songs.

And where did you get the information about Mari's album sales? I love her music dearly, but I've always been under the impression that her albums have had middling sales figures. She was semi-big...but if you look at '80s idol compilations, she's rarely on them.