Muv-Luv Franchise - Game & General Discussion

[issuzark]

Originally Posted by Seitsuki

Whew. Finally recovered enough to post about it. That trainwrecked me almost as badly as Cross Channel.

Looked over TE and it seems to have nothing in common whatsoever with the events/characters of Unlimited/Alternative. Any crossover at all?

Sure, you get references of Operation Ouka, and that EM-99 was from Yuuko.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Seitsuki

Whew. Finally recovered enough to post about it. That trainwrecked me almost as badly as Cross Channel.

Looked over TE and it seems to have nothing in common whatsoever with the events/characters of Unlimited/Alternative. Any crossover at all?

The railgun, for one - XG-70 was supposed to be carrying 4 of those babies. Also, Kasumi is apparently from the same batch as Inia.

The battleship COs in Episode 1 and 2 of Total Eclipse were also at Sadogashima, IIRC.

Sandek's remark about MKULTRA and CIA brainwashing is a nod towards the CIA's douchebaggery during 12/5.

[NoirX]

Originally Posted by Seitsuki

Whew. Finally recovered enough to post about it. That trainwrecked me almost as badly as Cross Channel.

Looked over TE and it seems to have nothing in common whatsoever with the events/characters of Unlimited/Alternative. Any crossover at all?

TE happens around 2 months before Alternative. So when TE finished, Alternative starts right after a month gap.

[Kleeyook]

Question:

What would happen if the world know what BETA really is even without Unit 00's contribution and devise a new strategy concerning BETA's true nature?

I think that they can do fine G-bombing the hives into oblivion. Could the BETA withstand G-bomb? Is it already a decisive victory for humanity that the Superior was destroyed? Couldn't G-bomb do the same thing to the Superior even without Susanoo?

[Wild Goose]

The problem is that a massed g-bombing has real bad effects on the earth. Refer The Day After.

[issuzark]

Originally Posted by Kleeyook

Question:

What would happen if the world know what BETA really is even without Unit 00's contribution and devise a new strategy concerning BETA's true nature?

I think that they can do fine G-bombing the hives into oblivion. Could the BETA withstand G-bomb? Is it already a decisive victory for humanity that the Superior was destroyed? Couldn't G-bomb do the same thing to the Superior even without Susanoo?

You get a mutated Earth and some more hot girls.

[Alastor Mobius Toth]

Originally Posted by Kleeyook

Question:

What would happen if the world know what BETA really is even without Unit 00's contribution and devise a new strategy concerning BETA's true nature?

I think that they can do fine G-bombing the hives into oblivion. Could the BETA withstand G-bomb? Is it already a decisive victory for humanity that the Superior was destroyed? Couldn't G-bomb do the same thing to the Superior even without Susanoo?

The destruction of Superior is not an instant win button. It merely coordinates rest of the Hives, and occasionally creates adaptive tactics (a la Laser deployment). Hives can, and do, work without it, they just loose the ability to adapt in long-term.

Spoiler for The TDA:

Yes, Hives can withstand G-bombings to degree. In Alt V that did just that (massed G-bombing), they pretty survived to haunt people another day. Also, many G-bombs screw with Earth's gravity which is definitely not a good thing, as TDA shows us. Trying to G-bomb superior would require actually going down there and throwing it in its face. Which would be like Operation Ouka all over again.

[NoirX]

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

The destruction of Superior is not an instant win button. It merely coordinates rest of the Hives, and occasionally creates adaptive tactics (a la Laser deployment). Hives can, and do, work without it, they just loose the ability to adapt in long-term.

Spoiler for The TDA:

Yes, Hives can withstand G-bombings to degree. In Alt V that did just that (massed G-bombing), they pretty survived to haunt people another day. Also, many G-bombs screw with Earth's gravity which is definitely not a good thing, as TDA shows us. Trying to G-bomb superior would require actually going down there and throwing it in its face. Which would be like Operation Ouka all over again.

G-Bombs in TDA didn't destroy the Hives, it just simply submerge the Hives underwater but the Hives are still active. Also throwing G-Bombs to The Superior won't be as easy as Operation Ouka, since The Superior already experienced an invasion from the humanity force to their Original Hives, it will be more difficult to attack another Original Hive without doing mass-kamikaze. The BETA already knows how humanity will launch their attack from their previous Original Hive raid and will counter it with their own strategy.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by NoirX

G-Bombs in TDA didn't destroy the Hives, it just simply submerge the Hives underwater but the Hives are still active. Also throwing G-Bombs to The Superior won't be as easy as Operation Ouka, since The Superior already experienced an invasion from the humanity force to their Original Hives, it will be more difficult to attack another Original Hive without doing mass-kamikaze. The BETA already knows how humanity will launch their attack from their previous Original Hive raid and will counter it with their own strategy.

I though they need Original Hive to do that?
(minor hive send battle info to Original Hive which then try to make new plan to counter that strategy and send it to minor hive.)

[NoirX]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

I though they need Original Hive to do that?
(minor hive send battle info to Original Hive which then try to make new plan to counter that strategy and send it to minor hive.)

Normal Hives also have that capability although not as advanced as the Original Hive's Superior. The normal Hives also function as a super-computer which can proccess and make decision on its own. Let's take an army as an example. Original Hive as the Commander and normal Hives as Unit Captains, when you kill the commander the other unit captain still can move on their own but not as efficient as when they have their commander.

[tsunade666]

Did the other Valkyrie girls show up in altered fable? because I saw Touka playing violin in her school uniform in wiki. And that school uniform is the uniform of Takeru's school. What a small world indeed. Casualty Conductor. Did the other girls also enroll in his school?

Touko-san was absolutely gorgeous while playing violin. I here by praise paulxion sensei again for his One last time in the loop.

[Alastor Mobius Toth]

All Valkyries attended Hakuryou in the Extra verse.

The picture you might be talking about is probably from Kimi ga Ita Kisetsu, which is a part of wider continuity with Muv-Luv and Kimi ga Nozomu Eien.

Although, yes, the original Valkyries show up in Altered Fable as well. At least, Hayase does for certain, as does Haruko and Akane.

[NoirX]

Isumi Michiru also said in the Air Soft arc in Altered Fable that Yuuko is her teacher. So yes, all of Valkyries are from Hakuryou.

[DoomRavager]

For what it's worth, with the scanning of LD7 comes more information on the Lightning II and the Gripen.

http://muvluv.wikia.com/wiki/F-35_Lightning_II

http://muvluv.wikia.com/wiki/JAS-39_Gripen

Lightning II's article apparently really needs proofreading and TLC or something, all the Japanese text is still in there.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by DoomRavager

For what it's worth, with the scanning of LD7 comes more information on the Lightning II and the Gripen.

http://muvluv.wikia.com/wiki/F-35_Lightning_II

http://muvluv.wikia.com/wiki/JAS-39_Gripen

Lightning II's article apparently really needs proofreading and TLC or something, all the Japanese text is still in there.

Lightning II sounds real interesting. Who says the Americans don't know how to fight for melee? This has all the melee toys one could need!

Also, I'm digging the Marine Corps and Navy variants.

What amuses me is that it's described as having comparable performance to the Typhoon, when IRL in terms of Maneuverability it's Typhoon >> Raptor >> Lightning II. Then again, the 7.5G maneuver limit was shared by the Tomcat, which could actually do 9 and 10G turns, but was limited to 7.5G to preserve the airframes...

[DoomRavager]

Now watch as its procurement turns into a comedy of tragic proportions.

[sasahar17]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Lightning II sounds real interesting. Who says the Americans don't know how to fight for melee? This has all the melee toys one could need!

Hm, if I recall from several a webcast I saw on YouTube, there was some exercise that the F-35V took part in that it was completely destoyed by Sukoi planes when it was dragged into old school dogfights (kinda like what happened with the Eurofighter and the F-22, but worse). It probably would fare better if it could do it's stealth fighter thing, but the Aussie minister being interviewed was quite critical about how the government had given away so much money for a bunch of planes that couldn't turn with a much cheaper Sukoi (if I recall, the 'KD' ratio for the Sukoi v F-35B was terribly lopsided; in fact, the F-22 had to run to the rescue).
It's been a while since I've seen that report though, and it was basically the opposition lamblasting the government (also note the F-35A, which was the one ordered by the RAAF seems a bit better), so I'm not sure how accurate it is now. Can anybody confirm this?

Originally Posted by DoomRavager

Now watch as its procurement turns into a comedy of tragic proportions.

Well considering that saga was a long and painful one, I wonder how it would translate into the ML world.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by sasahar17

Well considering that saga was a long and painful one

- "WAS"? It's still ongoing for some of us! (Australia)

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by DoomRavager

Now watch as its procurement turns into a comedy of tragic proportions.

Well, so far it seems like it won't turn out to be the case, given that large-scale flight testing is already taking place in 2001, years ahead of IRL.

Originally Posted by sasahar17

Hm, if I recall from several a webcast I saw on YouTube, there was some exercise that the F-35V took part in that it was completely destoyed by Sukoi planes when it was dragged into old school dogfights (kinda like what happened with the Eurofighter and the F-22, but worse). It probably would fare better if it could do it's stealth fighter thing, but the Aussie minister being interviewed was quite critical about how the government had given away so much money for a bunch of planes that couldn't turn with a much cheaper Sukoi (if I recall, the 'KD' ratio for the Sukoi v F-35B was terribly lopsided; in fact, the F-22 had to run to the rescue).
It's been a while since I've seen that report though, and it was basically the opposition lamblasting the government (also note the F-35A, which was the one ordered by the RAAF seems a bit better), so I'm not sure how accurate it is now. Can anybody confirm this?

I'll have to do a significant amount of research.

Off the top of my head, however, I recall that US planners viewed the F-22 and F-35 differently. While the F-35 can dogfight, it's main purpose was to be a stealthy strike fighter, to replace the F-16, F/A-18 and F-117 in the business of dropping ordnance on target. Undoubtedly it could probably still turn and burn once the air to ground stores are all ruining someone's day, but that wasn't a key priority. IIRC the engines aren't thurst vectoring like the F-22, though I could be wrong.

Note that the USN intends to use the F/A-18F Super Hornet as it's interceptor/dogfighter, while the F-35 is intended to take over the strike role currently held by the F/A-18C and previously held by the A-6 and A-7.

The other issue is that the F-35B, the STOVL variant, has some compromises which were accepted in order to cram a completely different propulsion system. The general idea of a joint aircraft is sound (refer the F-4 and F-18), but the way they went about it was ass-backwards; they should have done the Navy version, then work it for the air force. Differing needs of the service and all that.

From what I've read, the F-35 is limited to 7.5G manuvers by the computers, which suggests that like the F-14, it's actually capable of higher G maneuvers, but the decision has been made to preserve airframes (Tomcats could pull 9 and even 10G turns, but that would stress the airframes and greatly reduce service life).

Well considering that saga was a long and painful one, I wonder how it would translate into the ML world.

Actually, given that flight testing is already occuring as of 2001, and by the looks of things is at an advanced stage, it seems that the ML Lightning II program surprisingly ran smoother.

When we look at it, the challenge of the IRL Lightning II program was combining three aircraft needs into one design: Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL/F-35A, USAF), Short Take Off & Vertical Landing (STOVL/F-35B, USMC) and Catapult Assisted Take Off & Barrrier Assisted Recovery (CATOBAR/F-35C, USN). It is quite possible for a common airframe for a CTOL and CATOBAR aircraft - note the F-4 Phantom, A-7 Corsair II and the F/A-18 Hornet - but we get significant challenges if we try to shoehorn a STOVL design into the mix. The aircraft with the most issues during development was the STOVL variant.

In ML, however, the challenges and issues appear to be lessened, because all TSFs by nature are STOVL aircraft, thanks to their Jump Engine placement, though of course CTOL is easier on the G-forces and fuel, as Yuuya and Stella briefly discussed in Episode 13 of Total Eclipse. So for the Lightning II, there appears to have been less work with exotic mechanisms. If my understanding is correct, in 2001 in Alternative Earth, the F-35 program is at the same stage it is right now in 2013 on IRL Earth. I should also note that F-35B STOVL aside, the USAF and USN models IRL are entering low rate production, and Replacement Training Units and Fleet Replacement Squadrons are being stood up to begin classes for pilots this year.

In short, if it hits the world soon enough, Muv-Luv F-35 looks to be a very tempting option for operators of 2nd and 2.5 gen TSFs; a light, manuverable TSF that is cheaper and easier to maintain compared to the F-22, with comparable performance to the Typhoon, with stealth, giving you a light TSF that be both shooty and stabby at the same time.

Originally Posted by wavehawk

- "WAS"? It's still ongoing for some of us! (Australia)

Have heart; there is light appearing at the end of the tunnel - in the US, at any rate.

[issuzark]

And I thought all went well with the F-35 in our world.
What happened?