Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[darthfury78]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

So you're back to not trusting word of god? Because they stated time and time again that Zero Requiem was the only thing they didn't change with the timeslot complication.

The WORD OF GOD has often contradicted themselves as they have done in the past. They are not going to say anything negative about the series because they are not allowed to. They can only say what is legal to say by Sunrise. Otherwise, they would lose their jobs and reputations. And what I have seen in the last few episodes of the second season was one of the biggest WTF moments of all time. Even they had said that the FANS would not like this outcome. It was the only way to put this seies to a stop. Original ideas and plans can always change, depending on the circumstance. And Lelouch's death was voted on by the staff because the headwriter had asked them if they were ok with it. If they want to extend the story the way they had wanted at the latenight audience, the whole situation could have changed with a strock of a pen.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by darthfury78

The WORD OF GOD has often contradict themselves as they have done in the past. They are not going to say anything negative about the series because they are not allowed to. They can only say what is legal to say by Sunrise. Otherwise, they would lose their jobs and reputations.

You have no idea what you're talking about. People can badmouth their own shows, and do, a lot. Pluto Nash, for example. Yes, they can talk shit about their show because it's their show, and positive or negative people do like to hear what they think. Quit making things up.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by darthfury78

The WORD OF GOD has often contradict themselves as they have done in the past. They are not going to say anything negative about the series because they are not allowed to. They can only say what is legal to say by Sunrise. Otherwise, they would lose their jobs and reputations.

They still didn't need to go so far as to say that they were almost better friends than before.
Of course it could be some big conspiracy. Who knows - maybe Lelouch was originally inteded to be a singing, dancing cactus.
But if that's the case, then we'll never know.

[darthfury78]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

You have no idea what you're talking about. People can badmouth their own shows, and do, a lot. Pluto Nash, for example. Yes, they can talk shit about their show because it's their show, and positive or negative people do like to hear what they think. Quit making things up.

You certainly should try to have an active imagination like I do. It's fun to think outside the box. Otherwise, it would get real boring.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by darthfury78

You certainly should try to have an active imagination like I do. It's fun to think outside the box. Otherwise, it would get real boring.

There's a difference between having an active imagination and being delusional. You're spouting nonsense then trying to avoid justifying it by hiding behind "opinion."

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by darthfury78

You certainly should try to have an active imagination like I do. It's fun to think outside the box. Otherwise, it would get real boring.

No one denied that creativity is a good thing most of the times. But when there are certain canon-limitations, it is a bit difficult to be creative, without showing a bit of delusional-points. Especially, when it comes to certain matters.

[Xander]

A couple of comments. Even though the Mutuality short story has them back to being friends, at least in terms of interactions...it's probably important to note that Okouchi does admit it's more complicated than that in the Continue interview.

-----After that, Lelouch and Suzaku got over their conflict and became accomplices working towards a common goal. Lelouch became the Emperor, and Suzaku, as Knight of Zero, became the Emperor's sword.

Okouchi: It's a relationship you can't describe in a word. To simply call it friendship isn't quite right.

-----It was quite the relationship, after all, what with their shooting at each other with guns and getting down on their knees to beg (laugh)

Okouchi: Exactly. And it's not just about their having mutual interests, either. It's impossible to describe it in a word, but it's a very strong bond. Lelouch as a kid, Lelouch in school, Lelouch as Zero -- only Suzaku sees all of it. Kallen, Nunnally, C.C., even -- none of them sees all of [Lelouch]. Playing together, running away, living, killing each other, even the knowledge of their having killed their own fathers. In terms of revealing who they are, only these two are completely naked. This is probably why the two of them were able to team up in the end.

I think the point here is that they've reached a level of mutual understanding beyond mere friendship, since their lives have gone through many different stages before reaching this point.

Originally Posted by darthfury78

...And Lelouch's death was voted on by the staff because the headwriter had asked them if they were ok with it...

This isn't true. Okouchi was talking about the epilogue there, not about the ending as a whole.

----In the final episode, the lives of the characters after Lelouch's death were shown in the style of an epilogue

Okouchi: The epilogue, Kallen's monologue and so on were the realization of not only my own "dream" but also that of the rest of the staff members involved [in the project]. When we discussed the script, I asked each of the staff members what they would like to see happen to the characters. When you've been involved in a single project for nearly 2 years, you tend to form attachments and wishes. It goes without saying that we weren't able to fulfill everyone's wishes, but we did try our very best. I thought that would be the best way to end a show that was made possible by way of everyone's efforts.

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

There's a difference between having an active imagination and being delusional. You're spouting nonsense then trying to avoid justifying it by hiding behind "opinion."

Watch your mouth! If Okouchi did made R2 as he intended, there would be tons of Millulu and other stuff!

C'mon Darth, you are a nice guy, but you shoul just enjoy the ride instead of thinking how it could be better.

[darthfury78]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Watch your mouth! If Okouchi did made R2 as he intended, there would be tons of Millulu and other stuff!

C'mon Darth, you are a nice guy, but you shoul just enjoy the ride instead of thinking how it could be better.

Code Geass R2 did not leave me with a sense of satisfaction. It ended much too quickly. And the changes to the storyline structure didn't help either. I still feel that the second season was rushed to the point where a lot of stuff was missing. I don't feel that this is the end for the series. But I have a feeling that they might remake Code Geass R2, one way or another. There is so much speculation out there due to the goddamn timeslot change. I just wish that Sunrise would have left things alone so that the second season could have follow in the same format as season one.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Xander

This isn't true. Okouchi was talking about the epilogue there, not about the ending as a whole.

Well that explains why the Epilogue was so horribly written

Janitor: I want to see all the Britannians and Japanese smiling and making it seem like Britannia didn't commit Genocide on the Japanese people!

[Xander]

I think you're blowing things a little out of proportion, as usual, but even then...I'm not going to disagree in the sense that it's not a sign of great writing to do that, yet I think it's not such a bad thing to do from a more human perspective. Imagine that.

And well...I do happen to like some other parts of the epilogue you probably do not care much about.

However, let me just say that the Japanese were far from having been subjected to genocide per se, at least on a wide scale. Britannia had imposed a horrible system of racial discrimination but was not trying to destroy them as a race through the use of violence and mass extermination, which is what has been usually classified as genocide. The most blatantly genocidal act was caused by Euphemia (against her will) and even that was too much for the Britannian establishment. Compared to the previous ghetto purges, those were more or less circumstantial and related to other events.

In addition, considering we barely get a glimpse into what has happened after the fact I think you're also assuming a little too much. Just because their leaders are on friendly terms with Britannia's says relatively little about the situation from the perspective of the average Japanese citizen, other than the fact there are negotiations in progress.

Then again, the larger issues have been debated a few times already so it's probably overkill to do so yet again.

[bladeofdarkness]

clovis tried to wipe out the shinjuku getto
cornellia was going to do the samething JUST AS BAIT
euhpie gave the order to kill all japanese and not ONE soldier (unless you count suzaku) objected
nunnaly's SAZ almost came to a similer end (this time with one million people there)
and by that point the japanese population had been reduced to forced labor more or less

it might not be genocide in the full sense of the word
but its evil and vile enough that there is no real difference

[Xander]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

it might not be genocide in the full sense of the word
but its evil and vile enough that there is no real difference

I'm right with you on that one, if you're talking in terms of morality, but just wanting to make clear that there is a difference, in practice, even if it's not that huge.

PS: Man, I need to find the time to watch Haruhi S2...although what I really enjoyed was marathoning the first season, so maybe I'll do something similar this time. But nevermind.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Xander

I'm right with you on that one, if you're talking in terms of morality, but just wanting to make clear that there is a difference, in practice, even if it's not that huge.

PS: Man, I need to find the time to watch Haruhi S2...although what I really enjoyed was marathoning the first season, so maybe I'll do something similar this time. But nevermind.

then i suggest you wait and marathon the entire show season 1 AND 2 in cronological order
thats what they are aiming at this time

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Xander

I think you're blowing things a little out of proportion, as usual, but even then...I'm not going to disagree in the sense that it's not a sign of great writing to do that, yet I think it's not such a bad thing to do from a more human perspective. Imagine that.

And well...I do happen to like some other parts of the epilogue you probably do not care much about.

However, let me just say that the Japanese were far from having been subjected to genocide per se, at least on a wide scale. Britannia had imposed a horrible system of racial discrimination but was not trying to destroy them as a race through the use of violence and mass extermination, which is what has been usually classified as genocide. The most blatantly genocidal act was caused by Euphemia (against her will) and even that was too much for the Britannian establishment. Compared to the previous ghetto purges, those were more or less circumstantial and related to other events.

In addition, considering we barely get a glimpse into what has happened after the fact I think you're also assuming a little too much. Just because their leaders are on friendly terms with Britannia's says relatively little about the situation from the perspective of the average Japanese citizen, other than the fact there are negotiations in progress.

Then again, the larger issues have been debated a few times already so it's probably overkill to do so yet again.

Let me ask you something

Where do you think the people who used to live in the center of town moved too? Britannians are not a small minority bossing around a large minority, the Britannian presence in Tokyo is huge. I mean just look at how nice and large the Britannia section of Tokyo is.

You seriously think that Britannia just relocated millions of people to another part of Japan?

Combine that with the Britannian's idealogical beliefs and its pretty clear what happened to those people who used to live in the Britannian section of town.

[bladeofdarkness]

we dont have evidence to suggest they were KILLED
more likely kicked out of the area and forced to relocate somewhere else (the crowded getto's around the settlement are crowded for a reason i suppose)
i agree that they are beyond evil in some cases
but there is not real indication that britannia murdered millions just to make room
they seem to care more about japan having a stable economy (for taxes) and murdering god only knows how many people kinda damages the work force

[Charred Knight]

Tokyo has been crowded for decades well before the invasion of Japan in the Code Geass universe.

Also the relocated Britannians would make killing millions possible without damaging the economy. A Japanese who works at a factory would be a hell of a lot more useful than a salaryman.

[bladeofdarkness]

on to another subject

was jeremia clovis's knight ?

its not an odd question when you think of what the term "knight" means
personal guard and commander of the honor guard
1)gillford is cornellia's knight, and he commands her personal honor guard/personal unit
2)when suzaku was chosen as euphie's knight, it was the first step in creating a special unit aimed at her protection
3)bismark was the emperor's personal knight, and as Knight of one he commands the KoR (the emperor's special honor guard)
4)while not part of the royal aspect of the show, kallen serves both as lelouch's personal bodyguard and commander of his personal unit (zero squad)

the purist faction is called "my personal unit" by clovis in ep 1
they have special markings that set them apart from other millitery units
they are over protective of him on a personal level (forcefully taking his body away from bradly)
and after jeremia suffers the "orenge" incident they try to remove him to clear their name

jeremia leads the purist faction and seems to take clovis's death as a personal failure of his (despite not being anywhere near)
he also takes control over area 11 after clovis's death in the same way that gillford takes command in season 2 (using his status as cornellia's knight as credit)
so...
even if they were not that close on a personal level (that we can see on the show)
could it be that jeremia was techniclly clovis's knight ?

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

jeremia leads the purist faction and seems to take clovis's death as a personal failure of his (despite not being anywhere near)
he also takes control over area 11 after clovis's death in the same way that gillford takes command in season 2 (using his status as cornellia's knight as credit)
so...
even if they were not that close on a personal level (that we can see on the show)
could it be that jeremia was techniclly clovis's knight ?

I really don't think so, seeing how a knight pledges his loyalty to one specific member of the royal family the way Suzaku did to Euphie.
The purist faction, however, was loyal to the royal family as a whole, and Jeremiah mainly takes Clovis' death personal because he had already failed to protect Marianne and Lelouch. He hadn't been their knight, either, but apparently, that doesn't make much of a difference to him.
A knight holds a formal title. They also hardly leave their princes' or princess' side and therefore are pretty close to them. Had Jeremiah been Clovis' knight, we would have heard of it.
I also think Clovis really didn't want a knight, even though he and Jeremiah would probably have gotten along pretty well simply because they both totally fanboyed Lelouch (and his mother).
You could call the leader of the purists a "knight" of the gouverneur, I guess, but it would be a pretty different kind of knight. Jeremiah and his unit only had so much power because Clovis didn't care enough to take it away from them.

Edit:
And may I hug you for bringing up Clovis? xD

[Betteroffer]

I thought that the scar-eyed commander and those guys with him that Lelouch Geass'd to die in the first episode were Clovis' Royal Guard, which would technically have made him Clovis' knight.

The Purist faction were just a very conservative branch of the military.