Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 09 Discussion / Poll

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I already gave my impressions in my first post in this thread:
"Well, well. This may prove to be the best episode of Gundam 00 so far. It's certainly the best written, and I'm rather surprised at the quality of the choreography. The combat in this episode is possibly the best since episode 29 of Seed."

Silly me...and I thought maybe you'd take this chance to expound on that trite impression a bit considering how much you make sport of Gundam not having what episode 9 had (Not to mention the countless arguments we've had over this)...Oh well a leopard can't change his spots I guess...I thought you'd be a bit more joyful (Not that you ever are^^)...

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

That said, for her age, Sumeragi is doing quite a good job as tactical commander. It seems she only predicted incorrectly once before which was why she may have left the Union.

She jumped into a tactical sinkhole all by herself when she decided to:
1) separate
2) go to a place where her communications would be disrupted.

And seriously, a pincer movement? Whatever for? And she actually expected it to work, when the HRL knows damn well how dangerous even one gundam is? If the enemy splits in three, delaying two elements to concentrate on the third is the obvious answer. Letting yourself be caught in a crossfire is for morons.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

You gotta admit though, the amount of resources Sergei has placed in this operation is quite intensive.

Aside from launching tens of thousands of probes, deploying a large mine field, he has already sacrificed 3 battleships. Granted they were on autopilot but still, think of the costs!

If you ask me I think the HRL is entitled to getting SOMETHING out of this battle.

[Anh_Minh]

To be precise, two empty containers and one transport ship (which I get the feeling is little more than a big box with thrusters stuck on).

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Hmmm well they are classified as multipurpose battleships unless the subs got it wrong. So techincally it's 3 warships. (I'm guessing those missiles are standard arnaments for combat).

I guess to them it's nickels and dimes

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver

Well i think there are more unmentioned problems.

Exia? I see unused 7 swords compare to the number of beam sabers infinite justice uses. I see plain moves of just simple cuts but no real cool moves i havent seen. It uses one sword most of the time and it can even shoot properly. Its slow, it cant move fast compare to Impulse can do. So yup, i know pretty much about gundams.

*rant on*

All seven swords have been used by Exia by episode 7. Also, all of the Gundams do have standard armament (beam sabers, beam rifles, shields and vulcans), they just haven't had reason to use all of them at once. Missiles? Kyrios and Dynames have used them.

I'm wondering what you're trying to point out here? Cool moves? Considering Exia's limited armament, I'm surprised they were actually able to show off its abilities without going too flashy. There isn't really much you can do with a sword really asides from cutting and slashing, which is what Exia does. Unless you're expecting something like Tsubame Gaeshi or Amakakeru Ryu No Hirameki from Exia, which I don't think we'll see in the near future.

Combat isn't about flashiness and having lots and lots of weapons to use. If you can get incredible results out of the weapons you have, why need more? It's a reason the Gundams here are so modular: they don't equip weapons they don't need in a particular mission, such as Dynames not equipping its full shield and pistols at all times, and Kyrios not lugging its weapons container around in every mission

Wishing for Exia to go gun-kata and martial arts with is awesome and all, but if you want that then go watch G-Gundam, Super Robots or shounen action etc... It's clear that despite the "super"-ness of the Gundams here that they're trying to portray them in as realistic a fashion as they can. I for one enjoy that aspect of Gundam, even if it isn't always "real" in the sense that one would like it.

And know pretty much about Gundam? What Gundams have you seen? Alot of main character Gundams have weaponry that'll make Exia fully loaded, such as the RX-78, which set the beam rifle/beam saber/shield/vulcan loadout of all Gundams and most real robots in general. MSG, 08thMS, 0080, 0083, Zeta, Victory, G, Wing Turn A, and yes even SEED with Strike all had main MS with pretty standard weapons, but that didn't stop them from being effective. Not all Gundams are as decked out as Strike Freedom or Infinite Justice you know. And Exia isn't any slower than any other Gundam I've seen.

*rant over*

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Hmmm well they are classified as multipurpose battleships unless the subs got it wrong. So techincally it's 3 warships. (I'm guessing those missiles are standard arnaments for combat).

I guess to them it's nickels and dimes

Menclave lists them as "multipurpose transports", not sure on which subs you're using.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Conclave-Mendoi lists them as

HRL Multipurpose Transport Battleship Laohu

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Conclave-Mendoi lists them as

HRL Multipurpose Transport Battleship Laohu

Hmmm missed that, based mine on Felt's ident of them.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver

Well i think there are more unmentioned problems.

Exia? I see unused 7 swords compare to the number of beam sabers infinite justice uses. I see plain moves of just simple cuts but no real cool moves i havent seen. It uses one sword most of the time and it can even shoot properly. Its slow, it cant move fast compare to Impulse can do. So yup, i know pretty much about gundams.

The Celestial Beings are kind of like the squadron you see in those World War II shooters. Exia is your melee and covert ops commando type with light weaponary, but stealth and speed, Dynames is your shoot em up type that either hangs back and provides cover fire or is up close running and gunning, Kyrios provides wide range cover fire and air strikes (basically your all purpose support guy) and Virtue is your demolitions guy.

If Exia were loaded up with beam cannons and rail guns and such it would defeat it's purpose by slowing it down when Dynames has that area covered.

And Exia is insanely maneuvarable compared to every other MS in the show, what are you even talking about man?! Sometimes I wonder how it doesn't tear itself apart with some of the quick reflex actions I've seen it do so far.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

Same goes for Felt. I just called her Rei clone cause Rei is the most well-known and first to become really popular of that archetype, but yes there were other "quiet girls" before her. Regardless, Felt's character has been done so many times before that it makes me yawn when she's on screen. If it weren't for her looks nobody would care about her.

well if you generalize so much then every character can be labeled as either "quiet type" or "outspoken type". I'd say in reality Felt's character is nothing like Rei, Rei is the cool and Goddess type while Felt is the cute and quiet type right from the start, you won't see Rei sitting there letting another girl trying clothes on her and pleading "please let me sleep", ever Felt didn't have much character at all except her cute loli moe-ness before this episode, but this episode has shown some good development on her character and Christina's character, however it's still not enough to say whether they are characters having been done many times before or not. There are still 40 episodes left, and I guess there will be at least a couple more episodes to develop those operators' characters, then we can judge whether they are cliched or not.

So far both Felt and Christina are interesting side characters, albeit Felt's in the positive way while Christina the negative. Rei clones are cliched and uninteresting as they mostly ends up seemingly super cool and non-emotional while having a certain softspot for the main character to exploit without much character development at all (which is actually completely different case from Rei), however Felt looks much better so far since although she's the quiet type, she doesn't try to look all cool and mighty, she's just a cute and somewhat shy loli with mundane emotions and cares about mundane affairs, which is a good thing for future character development potential IMO.

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Are you back-tracking now? So far, you've been adamant that the AEU's public position is in no way cowardly (and in fact, is the sole place you've complained about my argument), and now you claim that you're arguing about a trivial point?

And as to their actual position, the problem is that they'd already been attacked (and at least twice). By stating that they won't do anything to Celestial Being outside of their borders effectively means that the AEU is letting them get away with it. It's really only a temperate response if they hadn't already been involved.

It's both. It's BOTH insignificant and it is not cowardly. It's POLITICS. The politicians sit back and let things happen. It's not a matter of being afraid or being cowards. It's a matter of being sly about it as a group especially like AEU is content on letting others handle it until they can pounce on the situation. Also, Moralia showed that they have plenty of drive and capability to use CB to their advantage.

You have to understand that AEU is not even seeing CB as a real threat other than a small nuisance. Possibly the same with all three powers, but they're playing the 'let's get them space terrorists!' in a political light. We see the back door events of the leaders just playing it nonchalantly as if it was a chess game. There is no indications to show that any of the three powers are backing away from the game.

Also, there is nothing of CB to 'get away' from AEU. If other nations are involved, that is NOT AEU'S BUSINESS. You just aren't seeing the various spectrum of it. Union sees this as a military-technology test drive, AEU sees it as a way to further their PMC interests and HRL sees it as an openly hostile action. The last time I've heard, the AEU never specifically pointed out CB as a terrorist group or even something worth formally declaring war or action upon. It's strictly hands off approach. They're playing the zero sum game like they were doing all along.

You don't know the difference between "most likely to be the HRL" and "the HRL is the only power with the ability to do something like this"? Part of Sumeragi's reasoning is that Ptolemaios was near the HRL's airspace, along their portion of the orbital ring - it'd be less reasonable for any other bloc to be projecting their power there.

I meant it from Sergei's perspective too. That's what I meant when I said the SHOW was telling it. Stop pushing this like I don't know what you're talking about. From that 'most likely to be HRL' and 'HRL with only ability' part, both applies.

My point is that the proximity increases the risk since one would assume that there wouldn't be all that many objects in space that are both visible, and don't show up on radar. If Ptolemaios did get spotted, one would imagine that it'd draw a fair bit of attention.

I don't disagree with that. Again, it's just a matter of carelessness by the vastly technologically superior Celestial Being forces. Again, the lack of a true discipline and possibly inexperience by captain Sumeragi is the true culprit.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

That's sort of the problem; Ptolemaios would be difficult to detect visually as long as it's far from any observers. By making itself vulnerable while in close proximity to the orbital ring, they're exposing it to more risk than seems prudent.

The power blocs already knew that the Gundams would be next to impossible to detect with radar, so they'd be trying other methods and correlating them with radar anomalies.

Again, the empirical logic states that they WOULD have done so if that was the case. But for MONTHS, CB's ship was able to just float by in enemy territory without a problem. That only says that the visual confirmation was either insufficient (due to all the solar arrays that the ship could hide in. I think that's one reason why Sumeragi went there when things got rough. Perhaps they hid in the array all this time) or that somehow, visual confirmation really was not an issue. Then again, these kinds of things are overlooked in Gundam shows all the time. Apparently long range visuals play little role in ship detection with Gundam shows.

[dreamless]

So this is what Virtue will be like after dropping the armor?

Originally Posted by 4Tran

My point is that the proximity increases the risk since one would assume that there wouldn't be all that many objects in space that are both visible, and don't show up on radar. If Ptolemaios did get spotted, one would imagine that it'd draw a fair bit of attention.

considering that as long as Ptolemaios is within the coverage of the comm network of all those little comm units, they are as good as being watched all the time. So they either need to escape out of the comm network, which I suppose Sumeragi deem impossible with Sergei's assault force already fast accelerating towards them, or find somewhere close to hide where the comm network won't be able to detect them, which is the orbital ring. The thing is, they don't need to care about the danger of being found out again since they are already found out with pin-point accuracy anyway.

Originally Posted by MooMooFarm

As someone who hasn't even watched Evagelion, even I know what Rei kinda means in terms of sterotype. It means quiet girl with very lack of facial features. The opposite are the types that go >.< :< :> :3 > > > :| and stuff like that. But even as annoying as the latter is, it's more accepted then the former. Witch Hunter Robin with english dubs was the pinnacle of being Rei'd.

then you need to watch Evangelion. Rei is actually the polar opposite of the "Rei clone" stereotype, when Rei clones are mostly just selling off on the fact that the character design is like Rei, so they mostly devoid of character development, Rei has very complex and intricate character development through the series.

[SuperKnuckles]

Different, yes, but the archetype is just about the same. The shy/reclusive/silent girl who's in it for someone she loves.

I think there's too little we know about Felt or even any of the characters so far. This show desperately needs episodes based on character exposition. Even if they become slightly fillerish.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Different, yes, but the archetype is just about the same. The shy/reclusive/silent girl who's in it for someone she loves.

Archetype != clone. Otherwise its like calling every tsundere an Asuka clone.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by dreamless

So this is what Virtue will be like after dropping the armor?

It says "GN-004". That's the missing Gundam people have been talking about. Of course, while I've yet to be able to read Japanese fluently, I can read a bit of it now; it does say something about "Gundam Virtue 'purging' its armor". So yeah, that's probably it.

It's named "Gundam 'Na-do-re'" in that form though. Hmmm. What gives? Anyone who can read this in full?

[LightningZERO]

From gunota:

Spoiler:

GN-004 Gundam Nadle
"The form uncovered when the Gundam Virtue purges its armor. One characteristic is the exposure of the completely disheveled, hair-like cords that were attached to the armored parts. Light and excelling in mobility, it nimbly dodged attacks from Peiris' Taozi. It can use the Virtue's shoulder cannons as handheld weapons."

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by LightningZERO

From gunota:

GN-004 Gundam Nadle
"The form uncovered when the Gundam Virtue purges its armor. One characteristic is the exposure of the completely disheveled, hair-like cords that were attached to the armored parts. Light and excelling in mobility, it nimbly dodged attacks from Peiris' Taozi. It can use the Virtue's shoulder cannons as handheld weapons."

In other words, that poster just gave away the plot for Episode 10. ( -_-")

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Silly me...and I thought maybe you'd take this chance to expound on that trite impression a bit considering how much you make sport of Gundam not having what episode 9 had (Not to mention the countless arguments we've had over this)...Oh well a leopard can't change his spots I guess...I thought you'd be a bit more joyful (Not that you ever are^^)...

I did expound on it. If you're really curious, you should read my first post again.

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Conclave-Mendoi lists them as

HRL Multipurpose Transport Battleship Laohu

That's a little strange. Normally, battleships are armed to the teeth, but the Laohus don't seem to have much in the way of armaments. (Why would one name such a ship "tiger"?)

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Also, there is nothing of CB to 'get away' from AEU. If other nations are involved, that is NOT AEU'S BUSINESS. You just aren't seeing the various spectrum of it. Union sees this as a military-technology test drive, AEU sees it as a way to further their PMC interests and HRL sees it as an openly hostile action. The last time I've heard, the AEU never specifically pointed out CB as a terrorist group or even something worth formally declaring war or action upon. It's strictly hands off approach. They're playing the zero sum game like they were doing all along.

How is claiming that they won't do anything to Celestial Being anything other than letting them get away with it?

Please illuminate for us why you think that they're playing a zero-sum game.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I meant it from Sergei's perspective too. That's what I meant when I said the SHOW was telling it. Stop pushing this like I don't know what you're talking about. From that 'most likely to be HRL' and 'HRL with only ability' part, both applies.

And what precisely was it that Sergei said?

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Again, the empirical logic states that they WOULD have done so if that was the case. But for MONTHS, CB's ship was able to just float by in enemy territory without a problem.

And New Orleans never suffered massive damage from hurricanes for decades before it got hit by Katrina. Does that mean that their hurricane prevention system was adequate? Besides, when it comes to risk management, it's silly to base one's actions on the empirical evidence of a single unit.

Originally Posted by dreamless

considering that as long as Ptolemaios is within the coverage of the comm network of all those little comm units, they are as good as being watched all the time.

I'm referring to why they were so close to the ring in the first place.

Originally Posted by brightman

Archetype != clone. Otherwise its like calling every tsundere an Asuka clone.

Precisely. Accusations of "ripoff" and "clone" are far more rampant among anime fans (and many other fan groups as well) than is really warranted. Personality wise, Felt is nothing like Rei.

[D a m i e n]

i decided to give the show a new chance, and to watch this episode... i have hard time believing that people are still watching let alone enjoying gundam now our days.
i mean i though GSD was extremly horrible.
not even worth vote since poll doesnt have negative number.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

That's a little strange. Normally, battleships are armed to the teeth, but the Laohus don't seem to have much in the way of armaments. (Why would one name such a ship "tiger"?)

I dunno but so far in 00 the warships we see aren't even armed to the teeth like a 21st century battleship and would classify as transports.