sola - Episode 7 Discussion / Poll

[Kaoru Chujo]

I think you are missing out on something that makes this show stand out if you can't get inside Aono's skin and appreciate what she is going through -- has gone through for hundreds of years, perhaps. Aono's tragedy may be the heart of this show. She feels desperate and betrayed, and in her madness finds the worst solution to her problems.

But of course I can forgive her. "To understand all is to forgive all." (Madame de Stael) I suspect that forgiveness may get even harder, however, since it seems highly possible that she may be the author of the blood in Takeshi's memories, too.

That I can forgive her doesn't mean I think she should kill people or should not be stopped. There is a difference between forgiving and condoning. In real life, I think this is a distinction that is made too little. I think criminals should be forgiven -- and put in jail.

However, I do want to congratulate people who had doubts about her from the beginning. I didn't see it coming.

By the way, I believe that if you look at the first post in the thread, you can see that spoilers aren't needed in single-episode threads unless you are spoiling future developments from a manga or something like that. So wontaek was right to start not using them.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Nemesis2124

Spoiler for ep7:

Well, no offense or anything guys, but you're probably going to have to accept that she won't be burning anytime soon. From this episode and other bits of her throughout the show, it's abundantly clear that, while you may not agree with the notion, the writer is trying to paint her as more tragic than evil. So, presumably, the end point in her development will be more along the lines of redemption, rather than suffering the wrath of the collective fan-base.

Yeah but...

Spoiler:

If Aono doesn't suffer or the collective fan base is not appeased in some way, then there's no DVD sales for them. No money in their bank accounts. Rest of franchise is screwed in other words.

[Nemesis2124]

Though on the same token, as far as most people on this forum go, the episode isn't truly out yet. I know I'd be angry if I came in here looking for prospective thoughts, and saw this stuff not tagged. So, I'm willing to be courteous until the sub comes out.


EDIT: I'm not a big fan of studios caving their original intent to appease the masses. So I can only hope your suggestion does not come to fruition.

And speaking of DVD sales, has anyone seen the 2chan reaction to this?

[Skane]

Originally Posted by Nemesis2124

Though on the same token, as far as most people on this forum go, the episode isn't truly out yet. I know I'd be angry if I came in here looking for prospective thoughts, and saw this stuff not tagged. So, I'm willing to be courteous until the sub comes out.


EDIT: I'm not a big fan of studios caving their original intent to appease the masses. So I can only hope your suggestion does not come to fruition.

And speaking of DVD sales, has anyone seen the 2chan reaction to this?

sola has been having very lukewarm responses in terms of 2chan posting, AnimeBlog exposure, forum discussion, etc... It is in my opinion, quite possibly, one of the most underrated series from this season (much like the first season of Black Lagoon).

Also, as unrefined as it may be, I now get warm fuzzy feelings from remembering all the critics who slammed sola as yet another 'predictable and generic' 'harem show'. I wonder how many of them will have the courage to eat their words at this point.

Bland, my ass.

Heh.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Skane

Also, as unrefined as it may be, I now get warm fuzzy feelings from remembering all the critics who slammed sola as yet another 'predictable and generic' 'harem show'. I wonder how many of them will have the courage to eat their words at this point.

Bland, my ass.

Heh.

no! most of them are going for "double or nothing" to eat cardboard *winks*

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Nemesis2124

Though on the same token, as far as most people on this forum go, the episode isn't truly out yet. I know I'd be angry if I came in here looking for prospective thoughts, and saw this stuff not tagged. So, I'm willing to be courteous until the sub comes out.... And speaking of DVD sales, has anyone seen the 2chan reaction to this?

1. spoilers. I get your point, but I'm going to go open and wait for reaction. I thought one of the original purposes of these threads was to get away from spoilers. Especially since we've had at least a page of spoilers, I think anyone coming here now would be alerted that the episode had aired. But I'll be guided by reaction.

2. 2channel. Skane is right that this has been a very little discussed topic. After seven episodes, it only has nine threads, which is in the middle of the pack. I just scanned reaction there since this episode aired, and it started highly positive in a Higurashi sort of way, but has cooled down, and doesn't show any signs of overwhelming enthusiasm. Some people say the contrast between the first and second halves of the episode was too extreme, others that the contrast was very effective, and there is discussion of how the show works in terms of ero-game narrative conventions.

2channel doesn't tend to have the sort of moralizing discussions we have here, and doesn't seem to judge anime characters as if they were real people, as lots of posters do here. And the sola thread on 2channel hasn't done as good a job of analyzing the possibilities as our thread has here.

I have to add that I think this episode cements this show as one of the top shows of this season. That we can have this kind of serious discussion speaks very well of it, for one thing. Over the top, perhaps, but it works.

[rg4619]

That I can forgive her doesn't mean I think she should kill people or should not be stopped. There is a difference between forgiving and condoning. In real life, I think this is a distinction that is made too little. I think criminals should be forgiven -- and put in jail.

Sure, if the perpetrator is genuinely remorseful. I think forgiveness is something to be sought and earned, but that's me.

I don't think "justice" should be presented as a means of punishment or retribution either (I think this largely drives the conflict between left and right-leaning views on justice), but that's another debate altogether.

But of course I can forgive her.

Here's one question. In popular media, it's the author's job to manipulate our feelings toward a particular character. With respect to sola, you've got moe appeal (as strange as it might sound, the effect this has on a male audience shouldn't be understated), exaggerated time scale, and an especially brief, one-sided presentation of Aono's history.

However, would you immediately feel the same way if this were a volatile, remorseless (and male) killer from the front page news? How about a deranged, heartbroken/lonely/angry man who's murdered his ex and her family after feeling jilted for 10, 20, 30 years? Or the predator who's experienced a horrible, sexually abusive childhood only to uncontrollably release that anger and pain on young victims (he's dangerous and remorseless as if punishing the world, yet also someone who suffered a lot to become that way)? In real life, I think the situation becomes much more complicated than the one-dimensional portrayals you might find in entertainment.

I'm not making any judgements on Aono's character yet, as it would be foolish to quickly condemn, forgive, etc. (it's quite interesting that we seem to have hit extremes here, with thinkers and feelers coming to opposite conclusions. Being almost right in the middle, I don't lean toward either side). I'm one who prefers to assess all sides and details objectively, and I think there's a lot to consider in these instances.

[octoberasian]

Maybe I'm thinking too much into this, but...

Spoiler:

Anyone noticed:
- The church's roof gets demolished, why not the rest of the church at the same time? Also, notice no bulldozers or other construction equipment before it gets destroyed. The lot gets empty rather quickly within two or three days.

- Mana's friend Sae mentions the word Yaka which catches Mana by surprise.

- The glass shard was first on the floor then conveniently in Yorito's hand. I don't ever see him picking it up.

- Already mentioned: Yorito trying to recall what happened before with Aono, but can't remember.

[New/Old]

Hoho. What a reaction this episode has. Hmm-hmm. One must wait for next week for answers or for the conclusion (if there is) to this situation, I suppose.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Nemesis2124

EDIT: I'm not a big fan of studios caving their original intent to appease the masses. So I can only hope your suggestion does not come to fruition.

Well, meguu-elixir come to mind.

Spoiler:

See Kanon 2k6 for details.

Originally Posted by octoberasian

Maybe I'm thinking too much into this, but...

Spoiler:

Anyone noticed:
- The church's roof gets demolished, why not the rest of the church at the same time? Also, notice no bulldozers or other construction equipment before it gets destroyed. The lot gets empty rather quickly within two or three days.

- Mana's friend Sae mentions the word Yaka which catches Mana by surprise.

- The glass shard was first on the floor then conveniently in Yorito's hand. I don't ever see him picking it up.

- Already mentioned: Yorito trying to recall what happened before with Aono, but can't remember.

Oh I hope that you aren't thinking that...

Spoiler:

Aono's energy was used to recreate that town so that Yorito has a place to stay and be by Aono's side and that once Yorito retaliates against Aono and seeks freedom that the town and residents disappear ala Interlude. She also expends energy to keep Yorito in line. All this was thrown for a loop when Matsuri, Takeshi and Mayuko show up.

That would be too tragic for words.

[Nemesis2124]

Spoiler for ep7:

I'm not sure myself, but I read in the Random Curiosity blog that there was a month time gap between when we see the roof collapsed and the time where the building was gone.

And I presume he took the glass shard off the window itself.

[PastPrime]

First let me say

Spoiler:

I was not really surprised by Mayuko being with Matsuri. I had thought that Matsuri might go back to the church and find her there. I thought that she would end up with either Yorito or Matsuri in this episode.

And a possibility.

Spoiler:

It appears very likely that Matsuri is the one who revived Mayuko and made her a Yaka, but Takeshi seems to blame her for everything that happened to Mayuko. Perhaps a Yaka was responsible for her death. Maybe Aono needed a scarafice to bring Yorito back and that sacrafice was Mayuko.

[Nemesis2124]

@PastPrime

Spoiler for ep7:

With that in mind something came to me about the Mayuko death scene back in ep5. Notice how her eyes were glazed over, much the same way Yorito's were in this episode? It would be really interesting if her death was Aono's power at work.

[octoberasian]

Originally Posted by Nemesis2124

@PastPrime

Spoiler for ep7:

With that in mind something came to me about the Mayuko death scene back in ep5. Notice how her eyes were glazed over, much the same way Yorito's were in this episode? It would be really interesting if her death was Aono's power at work.

I noticed that also.

Spoiler:

She had the same glazed look in her eyes just like Yorito as well. Could Takeshi be chasing the wrong Yaka?

[Nemesis2124]

Spoiler for ep7:

Possibly, as it strikes me somewhat odd that Aono could have killed off Mayuko, only to have Matsuri come in tow shortly thereafter and revive her. It's also possible that Takeshi has never actually met the person he's looking for, and only knows to look for a yaka.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Nemesis2124

Spoiler for ep7:

Possibly, as it strikes me somewhat odd that Aono could have killed off Mayuko, only to have Matsuri come in tow shortly thereafter and revive her. It's also possible that Takeshi has never actually met the person he's looking for, and only knows to look for a yaka.

actually it could be that matsuri has been "looking" over aono ever since that incident with her turning aono into a yaka ~ it could explain how she managed to save mayuko right after she was killed and when young takashi turned up at the scene he only saw the after image of matsuri running away ~ and hence thinks that she is responsible...

btw whats with all the spoilers on speculation?

[Nemesis2124]

Because my speculation is based partially on episode 7 events. In any case, I like your idea there.

[Icerack]

Spoiler for speculations:

I buy the Aono being a psycho killer.

It is quite clear that Yorito and Aono may have had some kind of relationship in the past which then gets ruined by Matsuri's appearance. Aono's jealously sparks and becomes a psycho killer causing alot of bad things to happen prompting the erasing of Yorito's memories. Erasing Yorito's memories led to her being hospitalized.

This is prob why Matsuri promises Aono to not show up again.

[Nemesis2124]

Heavy speculation time:

Spoiler:

It's interesting. After seeing that promise Matsuri made to Aono on the train, I'm starting to question some of my episode 6 thoughts. Originally I thought Matsuri took her leave simply because she didn't want to repeat her mistakes of the past on Yorito.

But now, I'm suspecting it's the confirmed thought that Yorito is indeed the Yorito that actually drove her to leave. Seeing her breakdown into tears at the end of 7 reminded me heavily of her previous tears at the end of 6. It also appeared she had something important to say before she got cut off. But anyway, on both occasions it was a reaction of sorts to Yorito reaffirming his promise. It kinda gets me thinking that perhaps the promise itself is dangerous in nature. We're not privy to just what went on in the past, but I'm wondering if Yorito's potential death back in the day was not the work of humans, but the result of whatever method it was he discovered for bringing yakas out in the sun. So, perhaps she's worried that he'll repeat the same thing again for her sake.

[orion]

Yeah, that's the bad part about this. We don't have the entire flashback yet to know what happened 17 and 200 years ago. I'm getting Air vibes again as in something bad happened and not just the outcome.

Of course, the bright side is...

Spoiler for Air:

If you can remember what to do, then you won't make the same mistake again.