(L) Rosario+Vampire Manga

[Mach56gs]

Originally Posted by XFire

No, it isn't. We have no way of knowing their "condition" as the author never brings it up. All we've got is Tsukune's statement that Ura is becoming gradually like Omote in both appearance and mannerism.

Er, yes, he does. Issa explains it very nicely, as I quote from chapter 67, page 33, panel 6, speech bubble 1:

"The 'Outer' one may be a clone of Akasha, but she was, at the same time, inside Moka, living and growing as a part of her."

What else do you need to know? Issa clearly says Omote was and always was a part of Ura. Key phrase: "A part of". Which explicitly informs the reader that Omote had always been connected to Ura and this never happened in the last 3 chapters.

Issa does not say that Omote is still inside Moka, nor does he imply that Moka has been changed by the breaking of the seal.

So its not "you still have the tapeworm". Its more like "That bump actually turned out to be a birthmark."

Huge difference that you keep mixing up!

Originally Posted by Tempest35

I may be wrong, and it's late for me, but... I love my R+V too much.

I think the gist is that Moka has to become/is becoming more like Omote/Akasha instead of remaining as the nicer, gentler Ura from when she fought Akuha and Gyokuro. Ura's tears and worries over Tsukune during that entire ordeal, all the revelations she went through, even Tsukune's reactions to Ura (the hugging, the crying, the forgiving) - the last two chapters or so seemed to dump all of that out the 3rd story window by making it seem that Tsukune was so head-over-heals for Omote instead. It feels as though Ura was ultimately just the vessel for Omote's personality.

[That and Ura = Moka and Omote = Akasha.] I guess I'll always see Ura as being the 'real Moka' which is technically true, give or take certain points. Omote, for lack of a gentler way of saying it, her purpose was fulfilled - Ura's personality had changed gradually, believably, over the course of the 'Fix the Rosario' arc and up until they fought Alucard. Any more changes to Ura now to make her even more Omote-like is 'useless' fluff. I may expound on it later but not right now.

... although, should have seen it coming when Tsukune went into that depression when he learned that Omote was a 'fake personality' for Moka.

Still, my first reaction when he learned that Akasha was the base material for Omote would have been, "Oh my god, I fell in love with my girlfriend's mother..."

Correction!

Omote is not Akasha. Omote is a clone, based off of Akasha. Quite the important difference.

Honestly when you inspect the flashback arcs Moka, unsealed, was very much like Omote in a lot of ways. Sure she was a bit indifferent and had pride but she was very innocent and emotional.

[Tempest35]

Originally Posted by Mach56gs

Er, yes, he does. Issa explains it very nicely, as I quote from chapter 67, page 33, panel 6, speech bubble 1:

"The 'Outer' one may be a clone of Akasha, but she was, at the same time, inside Moka, living and growing as a part of her."

What else do you need to know? Issa clearly says Omote was and always was a part of Ura. Key phrase: "A part of". Which explicitly informs the reader that Omote had always been connected to Ura and this never happened in the last 3 chapters.

Issa does not say that Omote is still inside Moka, nor does he imply that Moka has been changed by the breaking of the seal.

So its not "you still have the tapeworm". Its more like "That bump actually turned out to be a birthmark."

Huge difference that you keep mixing up!



Correction!

Omote is not Akasha. Omote is a clone, based off of Akasha. Quite the important difference.

Honestly when you inspect the flashback arcs Moka, unsealed, was very much like Omote in a lot of ways. Sure she was a bit indifferent and had pride but she was very innocent and emotional.

Well, it was important enough that Issa had to distinguish it both for Tsukune and us. If Omote was truly Akasha, I imagine that his first meeting with Tsukune would have been a bit more ... confrontational.

"My daughter isn't good enough for you, huuuh?"

"N-n-no s-sir!"

"Now you're trying to say you love my favorite wife too, HUUUH!?"

"HIIIEEE!"

I can't help it - Omote will now and forever be an Akasha-flavored Moka for me. I blame Ikeda for that. It's one of the few things that I can't reconcile, no matter how I try to rationalize it. It's because it reminds me of the end of Capu2 way too much.

And I can't say that Chibi Ura acted like Omote too much. Chibi Ura was chibi Ura - even teenaged Ura acted along those same established lines up to the end.

[Mach56gs]

Originally Posted by Tempest35

I can't help it - Omote will now and forever be an Akasha-flavored Moka for me. I blame Ikeda for that. It's one of the few things that I can't reconcile, no matter how I try to rationalize it. It's because it reminds me of the end of Capu2 way too much.

And I can't say that Chibi Ura acted like Omote too much. Chibi Ura was chibi Ura - even teenaged Ura acted along those same established lines up to the end.

Well, compare Chibi Ura to first half of first season Ura... The difference is pretty severe. (God now I need to reread season one.)

Season II Ura was much softer than "vanilla" Ura .

I won't deny it though, Omote and Akasha are very similar. Omote is a clone of Akasha after all.


Edit:

God darnit I miss these characters so freaking much.

[leoninoscp]

does anyone know if there will be a 3rd season?

[DragonOsman]

Probably won't be. I wish there was, though, or maybe just a sequel where we get to see Tsukune's kids. I think he'll have had kids with all of the girls, including Moka. And hopefully, the Moka at the end of the series could have kicked major ass, being a fully awakened Shinso and all. Tsukune, too. Otherwise it'd just suck.

@Mach56gs: I agree with you about Omote and Ura. When Moka was a kid, she was more like Omote. Like we were saying on the Mangafox Forums (man, does that bring back memories!), Moka, growing up, became colder over time because of what she experienced. And along with her true power being sealed by the Rosary, a part of her true personality must also have been sealed deep inside the Rosary that started to come out when it weakened and then came off. Now Moka's reverted to how she truly was, albeit having changed due to the times and the pain brought along with it (like her mother's death), as well as perhaps also changing a bit after falling in love with Tsukune.

And yeah, Omote was a clone of Akasha. But is she completely gone, or did she merge with Moka's true personality?

[Mach56gs]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

Probably won't be. I wish there was, though, or maybe just a sequel where we get to see Tsukune's kids. I think he'll have had kids with all of the girls, including Moka. And hopefully, the Moka at the end of the series could have kicked major ass, being a fully awakened Shinso and all. Tsukune, too. Otherwise it'd just suck.

@Mach56gs: I agree with you about Omote and Ura. When Moka was a kid, she was more like Omote. Like we were saying on the Mangafox Forums (man, does that bring back memories!), Moka, growing up, became colder over time because of what she experienced. And along with her true power being sealed by the Rosary, a part of her true personality must also have been sealed deep inside the Rosary that started to come out when it weakened and then came off. Now Moka's reverted to how she truly was, albeit having changed due to the times and the pain brought along with it (like her mother's death), as well as perhaps also changing a bit after falling in love with Tsukune.

And yeah, Omote was a clone of Akasha. But is she completely gone, or did she merge with Moka's true personality?

Heh, those were some crazy times, indeed.

I feel as though everyone changes in personality, so I see Moka's growth as a character a natural transition.

Omote was a clone of Akasha but from the moment of creation was a part of Moka. So while Akasha passed on with the memories of Omote, they are still a part of Moka regardless. Omote, despite being a clone of Akasha, was still a Moka through and through.

A sequel, regardless if there are kids, if they're in college, or just five months after season II, would be nice, but sadly I don't think we should expect it.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

And yeah, Omote was a clone of Akasha. But is she completely gone, or did she merge with Moka's true personality?

Omote started as a clone but by the end she was her own person with her own soul and her own personality. She truly became a part of the Moka body just as much as Ura is. However the destruction of the Rosario forever unable to interact with the world. However they have been slowly merging together to become the 1 person Tsukune once said he hoped they were become. It's slow but you see the affection of Omote leaking into the personality of Ura. Their hair color is also taking on Omote's pink coloring.

[DragonOsman]

Yeah, but I just hope Moka can still kick ass in a fight. I'd hate it if she became weaker and/or became too kind to fight.

@Mach56gs: I don't think Omote's memories went with Akasha. I think Moka still has them.

[tomboy8888]

-pokes head in-

wants to see Headmaster Tsukune...

really, REALLY badly

[Alhazad2003]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

Yeah, but I just hope Moka can still kick ass in a fight. I'd hate it if she became weaker and/or became too kind to fight.

@Mach56gs: I don't think Omote's memories went with Akasha. I think Moka still has them.

Ditto, that would suck if she lost the will to fight, especially since Fairy Tale was not completely destroyed. Though considering the chances of a sequel are next to nil, I fear it's a moot point at this juncture.

As for Omote's memories, I too believe they went with Akasha. Just like Miyabi couldn't live without his main body, I fear Omote couldn't live without Akasha. As Akuha said, when the Rosario was destroyed, so was Omote for that matter. Yet Tsukune was unable (or possibly unwilling) to concede that she was not Moka, and yearned for her even after he learned the harsh truth. I can't tell if that's devotion or delusion at work. I just feel Ura-chan got a bum deal at the end, I was looking forward to her being her own person once Omote passed on, but no; Akihisa just had to keep Omote bound to her, so Tsukune could get exactly what he wanted in the end. And even though it's been well over a year since the story ended, I still feel sorry for Ura-chan, I really do. Such a great character, trapped forever in her mother's shadow. Tragic.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

Yeah, but I just hope Moka can still kick ass in a fight. I'd hate it if she became weaker and/or became too kind to fight.

@Mach56gs: I don't think Omote's memories went with Akasha. I think Moka still has them.

Wouldn't matter to much since it was shown when inner and outer talked inner knew what was happening while sealed and knew what outer was thinking so she would have the same mememories but at worst with a different perspective.

[DragonOsman]

Yeah, Moka should still have those memories through the Ura personality. That's true.

@Alzahad: Tsukune loved both Mokas, though, didn't he? He wanted them to become one so he wouldn't have to worry about cheating on either one (or at least that's what it seemed like to me). And Moka's hair being silver with tints of pink in it probably meant that there was a merger between Omote and Ura, just like Tsukune wanted.

[Mach56gs]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

Yeah, but I just hope Moka can still kick ass in a fight. I'd hate it if she became weaker and/or became too kind to fight.

@Mach56gs: I don't think Omote's memories went with Akasha. I think Moka still has them.

Hell no! She's a Shinso and has been shown in the Omakes to still have a very "Ura" way of solving issues.... Moka is FAR from fang-less!

As for Ura and Omote, the completed final volume that was released solves most of the confusion very well:

Ura and Omote were always the same person. Although during the creation of the Seal Omote was a "clone" of Akasha, this personality was in fact part of Moka from the get-go. Since the Rosary returned to Akasha in the final battle, she did get Omote's collective memories, but still those were not Akasha's memories: They were Omote's, and therefore Moka's. Throughout this entire series Omote had been slowly re-combining with Moka, since they were cut from the same cloth. Regardless if Moka retains Omote's memories, it does not remove the fact that Omote is her, and thus the strands of pink that have singed her hair.

So in the end Tsukune was worrying about loving two different girls, he was actually just sweating over two different aspects/personalities of the same person. With the death of the seal the distinction of Ura and Omote becomes useless: It's just plain ol' Moka.

[DragonOsman]

That's a good take on things with the two personalities, yeah. I also thought that's how it was, so thanks for the confirmation.

As for the Omakes, I've read the ones that came out before the end of the series; if you mean to say that there are some that came out afterwards, then that's news to me, so I'd like to read them (if they're there).

[Mach56gs]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

That's a good take on things with the two personalities, yeah. I also thought that's how it was, so thanks for the confirmation.

As for the Omakes, I've read the ones that came out before the end of the series; if you mean to say that there are some that came out afterwards, then that's news to me, so I'd like to read them (if they're there).

There is an update for the release of Volume 14 which includes a whole bunch of pages and dialogue, as well as some really fonny omakes :P

[Alhazad2003]

@Tempest35

I feel your pain, I really do.

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

@Alzahad: Tsukune loved both Mokas, though, didn't he? He wanted them to become one so he wouldn't have to worry about cheating on either one (or at least that's what it seemed like to me). And Moka's hair being silver with tints of pink in it probably meant that there was a merger between Omote and Ura, just like Tsukune wanted.

He never explicitly said he loved Ura-chan, it was always Omote. His actions pretty much said so in chapter 66.6, pining for Omote while Ura-chan was holding him from behind, seemingly forgotten in the midst of everything. To me it was like he blatantly ignored everything he learned about Omote and still considered her "Moka-san." Even though he should've realized such a merger was impossible, no, Akihisa just had to find a way to make it happen. So Tsukune could have his cake and eat it too. I can't tell you how frustrated that whole ending made me, such a disappointing ending to such a great story.

Originally Posted by Mach56gs

As for Ura and Omote, the completed final volume that was released solves most of the confusion very well:

Ura and Omote were always the same person. Although during the creation of the Seal Omote was a "clone" of Akasha, this personality was in fact part of Moka from the get-go. Since the Rosary returned to Akasha in the final battle, she did get Omote's collective memories, but still those were not Akasha's memories: They were Omote's, and therefore Moka's. Throughout this entire series Omote had been slowly re-combining with Moka, since they were cut from the same cloth. Regardless if Moka retains Omote's memories, it does not remove the fact that Omote is her, and thus the strands of pink that have singed her hair.

So in the end Tsukune was worrying about loving two different girls, he was actually just sweating over two different aspects/personalities of the same person. With the death of the seal the distinction of Ura and Omote becomes useless: It's just plain ol' Moka.

If that's the official explanation then I call bullcrap. Omote was never part of Moka, she was always Akasha. She said it herself: "I am going to erase all my memories, and protect my daughter as just a personality." And then her last words to our hero: "Tsukune, thank you, I am so glad that I met you." Not to mention her mannerisms were a just like Omote's. Then the epilogue tries to refute all that by saying Omote was always a part of Moka? I don't buy it. Seems to me Akihisa was trying to appease the fans he incensed with the ending, because he basically destroyed Omote as a character.

That's one of the biggest problems with the story, too many inconsistencies and lame resolutions to serious plot issues, especially major battles. And that ending with Omote was one of the biggest. I was alright with her being an artifact spirit based on Akasha's personality, but actually being Akasha? That was just wrong, I expected so much better.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm ranting, but that ending really left a bad taste in my mouth. Hopefully Akihisa's next work doesn't suffer RV's disreputable fate, but we'll see.

[Mach56gs]

Originally Posted by Alhazad2003

@Tempest35

I feel your pain, I really do.



He never explicitly said he loved Ura-chan, it was always Omote. His actions pretty much said so in chapter 66.6, pining for Omote while Ura-chan was holding him from behind, seemingly forgotten in the midst of everything. To me it was like he blatantly ignored everything he learned about Omote and still considered her "Moka-san." Even though he should've realized such a merger was impossible, no, Akihisa just had to find a way to make it happen. So Tsukune could have his cake and eat it too. I can't tell you how frustrated that whole ending made me, such a disappointing ending to such a great story.



If that's the official explanation then I call bullcrap. Omote was never part of Moka, she was always Akasha. She said it herself: "I am going to erase all my memories, and protect my daughter as just a personality." And then her last words to our hero: "Tsukune, thank you, I am so glad that I met you." Not to mention her mannerisms were a just like Omote's. Then the epilogue tries to refute all that by saying Omote was always a part of Moka? I don't buy it. Seems to me Akihisa was trying to appease the fans he incensed with the ending, because he basically destroyed Omote as a character.

That's one of the biggest problems with the story, too many inconsistencies and lame resolutions to serious plot issues, especially major battles. And that ending with Omote was one of the biggest. I was alright with her being an artifact spirit based on Akasha's personality, but actually being Akasha? That was just wrong, I expected so much better.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm ranting, but that ending really left a bad taste in my mouth. Hopefully Akihisa's next work doesn't suffer RV's disreputable fate, but we'll see.

Did you read the volume edition of the last 4-7 chapters?

It explains the situation far better than I did and probably would make more sense to you.

Akasha was the creator of Omote, who was a clone of Akasha. But by the time Tsukune met Omote in the first chapter of the original series, she had become a part of Moka's original personality.

When Akasha received the rosary she also acquired Omote's memories, which in the volume addition she explains quite clearly that while she has Omote's memories, her and Omote are still separate entities. This is because at this point Omote is just another part of Moka.

Akasha literally says all of this in the updated last chapter (not the epilogue). I'd advise you to check out the volume release (you can probably find the updated volume pages somewhere).

[DragonOsman]

I also want to read those, but I'm not sure my parents will allow me to buy manga volumes. I could borrow them from a library, but I'm not sure if Saudi Arabia has manga volumes. So I'll have to hope that there's a website that has the scans.

[Mach56gs]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

I also want to read those, but I'm not sure my parents will allow me to buy manga volumes. I could borrow them from a library, but I'm not sure if Saudi Arabia has manga volumes. So I'll have to hope that there's a website that has the scans.

Can confirm they're online, but i don't think I can say much else other than that...

Other than the art is really good, lots of detail added :]

[DragonOsman]

Can you summarize what you read? Look over the Volume editions real quick and post a summary here. Is that possible?