AnimeSuki Forums

Justin_Brett · 2013-01-06, 22:34

I think what the characters meant by him being strange was just being naive, not having an inherently warped moral sense or anything. That approaches head-canon territory.

Even if it made him interesting, I'd be upset if that happened since it hasn't been foreshadowed at all.

Sansker · 2013-01-06, 22:37

Kirei and Kiritsugu were a little bland as well to be fair. I mean almost 90% of Zero they always show the same flat, bored and cold expression in every single situation. They do show more facial expression near the end but until that point they did remain with the previous poker faces. And to be fair I was ok with Thoma at first, is now when I have a problem because he does nothing.

And Akiyoshi does give something incredible but that isn’t what we see. So why should I consider Thoma anything else but how he acts on the manga. I could try to add more deep in to his character, but to be fair my points still remains: he isn’t doing anything and he does forgive too easy. After all when he did face Veyron part of what trigger his anger was the killing and he even refuse to let Quinn or Carter die, so if 3 nuns aren’t a thing why 2 criminals are so important?

Justin_Brett · 2013-01-06, 22:45

Quote:

Kirei and Kiritsugu were a little bland as well to be fair.

...excuse me?

Sansker · 2013-01-06, 22:47

Take it to the Fate/Zero forum

Justin_Brett · 2013-01-06, 22:51

If you think a character being stoic means they're bland, then I don't really have to.

Look at who you have in your signature, man.

Sansker · 2013-01-06, 22:57

I know, take a joke. Just want to play fun with the idea of Thoma being more like those two. He will be like dummy doll, not doing anything until someone pull the strings

Akiyoshi · 2013-01-06, 23:04

Ironically that's kind of what's happening right now and what's been theorized here. tohma for now is rediscovering what he can do with his powers now that lily has allowed some control of those which is good but i hope the plot get over with that part soon (we already saw Tohma's flaws as a fighter while battling the Grendels so i think the story is free to move on and let Tohma show some prowess). Curren already left an invitation to him for the "family reunion" she has been planning for almost 2 years xDU

Seriously, a LOT of stuff in FORCE is directly or indirectly tied to that famous reunion that has been delayed for an eternity, i'm truly eager for that event to happen in order to finally see all thos gears connected to it to finally start moving. Hope after this Re-rematch with the heroes Curren finally speeds up her big plan.

Sansker · 2013-01-06, 23:09

I know but to me is more like looking a little too much in to it. Thoma isn't bad, no do I consider him that bad, just he isn't great to me and all that about his past and morals sounds kind of force, pun intended

Kaijo · 2013-01-06, 23:14

If we're talking stoic characters being bland, then Fate was definitely bland in S1 and A's, and most of StrikerS. Hell, I think the two times I saw her showcase something other than a calm, cool, collected stoic tone, was shortly before she was absorbed by the book, and during her confrontation with Jail.

Honestly, Sansker, because English isn't your first language, I think you're really misunderstanding the meaning of the word "bland." It doesn't mean "someone I don't like." It doesn't even mean "emotionless."

So far, in roughly 7 episodes of anime, we've seen from Thoma: solitude, happiness, courageousness, gratefulness, incredible anger on the verge of going berserk, self-loathing, despair, unease, dislike, tenderness, friendliness... I could go on.

And that's a damn sight more than we got with Fate in twice that number of episodes. Sure, fine, don't like him because he isn't what you would have done. But bland is the one accusation that you can't level at him, unless you want to level the same at Fate. And I have a hunch you don't. And yes, you may try to say Fate has extenuating circumstances, which is true... but so does Thoma. As I said, level the charge equally, or not at all.

Akiyoshi · 2013-01-06, 23:18

Well, in that sense Tohma "is" kind of bland at times, it will probably be justified by the story later but his capability to underreact to stuff that would unsettle more than one shounen hero never stops to amaze me xDU

I've tried to make my ouw guess on the deeper reasons behind such behavior but for now those are only that: guesses.

On another note, Fate delt much more emotional to me on S1 and A's than in StrikerS, don't get me worng, she do shows emotions there but somehow she felt a bit too "goody good" in comparision with the complex character she was on earlier seasons xDU

Sansker · 2013-01-06, 23:25

I know what a word means and I use it to describe a character who reacts with a poor excuse of a emotion to a situation that will actually require more emphasis. Thoma lacks passion to me, and he is made as someone who should react with more emotion than he shows at times. I just get the feeling he doesn’t really care, but from time to time he did deliver better, my point always remains on how easy he seems to take everything.

Fate… she is subtle, something Thoma can’t be and there is a difference between no giving a crap and keep it cool to me. Thoma just feels too good at times and then generic on his “hero lines”.

Justin_Brett · 2013-01-07, 02:24

I don't really define blandness as a lack of emotion, personally. I've liked several characters who fit into an archetype smooth as butter. It's execution that matters.

Kaijo · 2013-01-07, 08:38

Ask Veyron if Thoma underreacted to him.

A few chapters in, and he showcased a strong reaction that took Fate 20+ episodes to get to. Fate is rather bland that way. She doesn't really react to anything.

Edit:
And hell, while we're at it...
Nanoha must be bland, since she underreacted to her discovery of Yuuno, magic, and monsters (And hmm, who else do we know who responded to a telepathic cry for help from someone of the opposite gender, and saved them and got powers in the process? Naw, no way Tsuzuki would repeat that)
Hayate must be bland since she underreacted to finding the Wolkenritter in her hospital room (and finding herself in a hospital room)

Honestly, it's not until StrikerS, that we find Subaru and and Teana who showcase reactions quite frequently. Subaru cries upon seeing Nanoha again, and Teana, well, we all know how she reacts to Subaru...
Then again, Erio and Caro tend to be a bit bland since they underreact. I mean, Erio had his hands on her chest, and neither one of them reacted much to it. Then again, they were taken in by Mrs. Bland Underreacter herself, so makes sense?

Sansker · 2013-01-07, 09:50

You see? Now you are getting my point Kaijo. Besides this is just how I see Thoma, not how I see every single character. Now if you think that has to mean I see problems everywhere then I am afraid is not the case. Now if you really think like that is fine.

Kaijo · 2013-01-07, 11:24

Oh, so you are saying that Fate and many other characters throughout the entire series, were bland because they underreact a lot?

Justin_Brett · 2013-01-07, 11:55

While having freaking Ulquiorra in your signature, I might add.

Kaijo · 2013-01-07, 13:57

I think there is another reason he doesn't like Thoma. And I'm not sure he may even know himself. Because almost everything Thoma has done, has been what Nanoha would have done. I think our double standards allow us to let girls get away with things that a guy couldn't.

Sansker · 2013-01-07, 14:05

No really. Maybe I just don't get the guy, sure as hell I don't like him but I don't hate him either. He is just there, and that's about it.

Endscape · 2013-01-07, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansker

No really. Maybe I just don't get the guy, sure as hell I don't like him but I don't hate him either. He is just there, and that's about it.

No offense, but you spend a lot of time discussing someone who is 'just there'.

Justin_Brett · 2013-01-07, 18:06

I dislike the writing behind him, but that probably doesn't count for disliking him.

2013-01-06, 22:37	Link #6922
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Kirei and Kiritsugu were a little bland as well to be fair. I mean almost 90% of Zero they always show the same flat, bored and cold expression in every single situation. They do show more facial expression near the end but until that point they did remain with the previous poker faces. And to be fair I was ok with Thoma at first, is now when I have a problem because he does nothing. And Akiyoshi does give something incredible but that isn’t what we see. So why should I consider Thoma anything else but how he acts on the manga. I could try to add more deep in to his character, but to be fair my points still remains: he isn’t doing anything and he does forgive too easy. After all when he did face Veyron part of what trigger his anger was the killing and he even refuse to let Quinn or Carter die, so if 3 nuns aren’t a thing why 2 criminals are so important? __________________

2013-01-06, 22:47	Link #6924
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Take it to the Fate/Zero forum __________________

2013-01-06, 22:57	Link #6926
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	I know, take a joke. Just want to play fun with the idea of Thoma being more like those two. He will be like dummy doll, not doing anything until someone pull the strings __________________

2013-01-06, 23:04	Link #6927
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Ironically that's kind of what's happening right now and what's been theorized here. tohma for now is rediscovering what he can do with his powers now that lily has allowed some control of those which is good but i hope the plot get over with that part soon (we already saw Tohma's flaws as a fighter while battling the Grendels so i think the story is free to move on and let Tohma show some prowess). Curren already left an invitation to him for the "family reunion" she has been planning for almost 2 years xDU Seriously, a LOT of stuff in FORCE is directly or indirectly tied to that famous reunion that has been delayed for an eternity, i'm truly eager for that event to happen in order to finally see all thos gears connected to it to finally start moving. Hope after this Re-rematch with the heroes Curren finally speeds up her big plan. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2013-01-06, 23:09	Link #6928
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	I know but to me is more like looking a little too much in to it. Thoma isn't bad, no do I consider him that bad, just he isn't great to me and all that about his past and morals sounds kind of force, pun intended __________________

2013-01-06, 22:34	Link #6921
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	I think what the characters meant by him being strange was just being naive, not having an inherently warped moral sense or anything. That approaches head-canon territory. Even if it made him interesting, I'd be upset if that happened since it hasn't been foreshadowed at all.

2013-01-06, 22:51	Link #6925
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	If you think a character being stoic means they're bland, then I don't really have to. Look at who you have in your signature, man.

2013-01-06, 23:14	Link #6929
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	If we're talking stoic characters being bland, then Fate was definitely bland in S1 and A's, and most of StrikerS. Hell, I think the two times I saw her showcase something other than a calm, cool, collected stoic tone, was shortly before she was absorbed by the book, and during her confrontation with Jail. Honestly, Sansker, because English isn't your first language, I think you're really misunderstanding the meaning of the word "bland." It doesn't mean "someone I don't like." It doesn't even mean "emotionless." So far, in roughly 7 episodes of anime, we've seen from Thoma: solitude, happiness, courageousness, gratefulness, incredible anger on the verge of going berserk, self-loathing, despair, unease, dislike, tenderness, friendliness... I could go on. And that's a damn sight more than we got with Fate in twice that number of episodes. Sure, fine, don't like him because he isn't what you would have done. But bland is the one accusation that you can't level at him, unless you want to level the same at Fate. And I have a hunch you don't. And yes, you may try to say Fate has extenuating circumstances, which is true... but so does Thoma. As I said, level the charge equally, or not at all.

2013-01-06, 23:18	Link #6930
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Well, in that sense Tohma "is" kind of bland at times, it will probably be justified by the story later but his capability to underreact to stuff that would unsettle more than one shounen hero never stops to amaze me xDU I've tried to make my ouw guess on the deeper reasons behind such behavior but for now those are only that: guesses. On another note, Fate delt much more emotional to me on S1 and A's than in StrikerS, don't get me worng, she do shows emotions there but somehow she felt a bit too "goody good" in comparision with the complex character she was on earlier seasons xDU __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2013-01-06, 23:25	Link #6931
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	I know what a word means and I use it to describe a character who reacts with a poor excuse of a emotion to a situation that will actually require more emphasis. Thoma lacks passion to me, and he is made as someone who should react with more emotion than he shows at times. I just get the feeling he doesn’t really care, but from time to time he did deliver better, my point always remains on how easy he seems to take everything. Fate… she is subtle, something Thoma can’t be and there is a difference between no giving a crap and keep it cool to me. Thoma just feels too good at times and then generic on his “hero lines”. __________________

2013-01-07, 02:24	Link #6932
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	I don't really define blandness as a lack of emotion, personally. I've liked several characters who fit into an archetype smooth as butter. It's execution that matters.

2013-01-07, 08:38	Link #6933
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	Ask Veyron if Thoma underreacted to him. A few chapters in, and he showcased a strong reaction that took Fate 20+ episodes to get to. Fate is rather bland that way. She doesn't really react to anything. Edit: And hell, while we're at it... Nanoha must be bland, since she underreacted to her discovery of Yuuno, magic, and monsters (And hmm, who else do we know who responded to a telepathic cry for help from someone of the opposite gender, and saved them and got powers in the process? Naw, no way Tsuzuki would repeat that) Hayate must be bland since she underreacted to finding the Wolkenritter in her hospital room (and finding herself in a hospital room) Honestly, it's not until StrikerS, that we find Subaru and and Teana who showcase reactions quite frequently. Subaru cries upon seeing Nanoha again, and Teana, well, we all know how she reacts to Subaru... Then again, Erio and Caro tend to be a bit bland since they underreact. I mean, Erio had his hands on her chest, and neither one of them reacted much to it. Then again, they were taken in by Mrs. Bland Underreacter herself, so makes sense? Last edited by Kaijo; 2013-01-07 at 09:14.

2013-01-07, 09:50	Link #6934
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	You see? Now you are getting my point Kaijo. Besides this is just how I see Thoma, not how I see every single character. Now if you think that has to mean I see problems everywhere then I am afraid is not the case. Now if you really think like that is fine. __________________

2013-01-07, 11:24	Link #6935
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	Oh, so you are saying that Fate and many other characters throughout the entire series, were bland because they underreact a lot?

2013-01-07, 11:55	Link #6936
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	While having freaking Ulquiorra in your signature, I might add.

2013-01-07, 13:57	Link #6937
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	I think there is another reason he doesn't like Thoma. And I'm not sure he may even know himself. Because almost everything Thoma has done, has been what Nanoha would have done. I think our double standards allow us to let girls get away with things that a guy couldn't.

2013-01-07, 14:05	Link #6938
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	No really. Maybe I just don't get the guy, sure as hell I don't like him but I don't hate him either. He is just there, and that's about it. __________________

2013-01-07, 18:06	Link #6940
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	I dislike the writing behind him, but that probably doesn't count for disliking him.