2013-04-24, 04:49 | Link #221 | |
Carbon
Join Date: Nov 2003
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As said with my Gurren Lagann comparison earlier, some games are MEANT to be over-exaggerated and ridiculous. If it makes some people uncomfortable then sorry.. some games are MEANT to be like that remember Mortal Kombat? exactly The point is that some things are clearly alienating to some, but you should not try to change them to make it more accessible to others Again, I am not talking about video games as a whole. I'm talking about specific cases like this game where it is clear what the tone of the game is. That's the reason why people give DmC flac. If a a series that is best known for tricky and sometimes unforgiving combat, you do not streamline it and make it more accessible to a larger group of people.
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2013-04-24, 04:49 | Link #222 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I'm not saying most titles don't apply to a male fantasy, but on the topic of the dwarf in the Dragon's Crown game(a game I probably won't be playing) I don't really see how a muscled up dwarf= male power Fantasy, I don't know much about the game, but I think the dwarfs buff build is a stereotype of dwarves in general.
Most dwarfs I hear about are either immensely fat, or totally muscled up beyond comparison. |
2013-04-24, 04:55 | Link #223 | |
Carbon
Join Date: Nov 2003
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But not all games intend to do that. And they shouldn't be forced to. I'm going to repeat what I proposed earlier in this thread. I think gaming should be more like comic books. Rather then trying to bunch everything into one genre that hits the largest target audience, it should embrace specialization and branch off.
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2013-04-25, 22:07 | Link #224 | |
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Whatever point Kotaku guy tried to make, if he even had any besides drumming up traffic, which is all Kotaku do these days, it is lost in the childish ad hominem attack that apparently constitutes game journalism in his sorry pos book. I mean, ffs, the guy is resorting to calling the sorceress a loli-bait, yes, the same one which he just complained was too sexists because of the oversized boobs, apparently is also guilty of being a loli.
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http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/04/...cter-selection also this Last edited by kyp275; 2013-04-25 at 22:57. |
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2013-04-26, 05:32 | Link #226 |
blinded by blood
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The Penny Arcade strip sums up my feelings about 50%. Being not straight and not attracted to freakish breast-mutants, I find both images, the actual one and the imagined one to be repulsive and disgusting.
If the artists of Dragon's Crown intended to squick everyone out with his artwork, he did a good job of it. I don't even think it's sexual objectification--I think it's grotesque sexual objectification. Fan Disservice rather than fanservice. But maybe I'm just projecting my own feelings. I find most "objectified" female characters with gag boobs and impossible proportions in gaming to be grotesque and disgusting. It's not solely about breast size or the appearance of her face or anything like that--it's the whole package taken together. I have no problem with female characters that happen to have large breasts. That exists in reality. What doesn't is freakishly huge gag boobs and freakishly narrow waists that no internal organs would fit inside, and then freakishly wide hips and a freakishly huge and rounded ass. Humans aren't built that way. If you're a woman with big boobs, chances are the rest of you is pretty large as well, but you never see that in gaming. For me it's less about being ticked off over objectification and more something akin to uncanny valley. When the proportions of the female body get skewed so much it stops being attractive and starts being repulsive. This is probably why I never really cared much for Bayonetta.
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2013-04-26, 06:54 | Link #227 |
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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IMO it's finding an issue where there is none. The characters in question here was lifted from the game and attacked without context. like Tycho from PA said, the entire freaking game is a giant blob of hyper-styled... well, everything. FFS, the females looks more "normal" than the dudes in that game.
VW's game has always had that look, Odin's Sphere, Murasame etc. DC is even more stylized, but it's nothing they haven't done before. Here's an excellent post from PAR's comment section before the author who called for discussion on the subject ironically shut it down because he apparently didn't like the direction it was going (ie. people pointing out all the double-standard and the douchebaggery of the original Kotaku article): Spoiler:
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2013-04-26, 07:12 | Link #228 | |
Tastes Cloudy
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Snake Way
Age: 35
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2013-04-26, 13:25 | Link #229 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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2013-04-26, 14:17 | Link #230 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I think her breasts are ugly as hell to, but I'm more into smaller than average types on their own, let alone giant fucking knockers a little bigger than an adult-human head.
I read the guys article where he called the sorceress ''Loli Bait'', and I need to say that is by far the funniest thing I have ever heard, so I guess having a cute and young-looking face means you're a loli now, is that why some mangas are mistagged as having a Loli in it when it's just a average-chested 20+ year old who isn't a giant? If I was trying to argue with that guy seriously, I think I would offend him because I would seriously break out laughing at that point. |
2013-04-26, 14:31 | Link #232 | |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Video Game Art designers have 1 objective, and that is $$$. Marketing knows sex = Sales, since they been selling sex since the days of Shakespeare and Leonardo de Vinchi. So what if they made the boobs a tad bit larger or the legs longer? As long as people are will to buy, the sexy chick will be there. Especially as a first time small developer who sank their budget into a games, sexy gamer chick has always been the easiest way to attract eyeballs and dollars, thank you very much. |
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2013-04-26, 14:36 | Link #234 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
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A good game with good tits attracts twice the dollars and eyeballs that your crowd will ever attract.
....according to the mentality of many game designers, and to be honest I don't think they're far off; there are MANY other factors which can affect the success or failure of games that do this though... |
2013-04-26, 15:23 | Link #235 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
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There is some valid criticism regarding the depiction of the female sorcerer in Dragon's crown, but that article's author is trash. He barely does any research, his writing is juvenile, and is jumping on this issue just to get page hits, and it's working. The depiction of prostitutes in any GTA games is 100x more damaging to women than this game, yet it's not something that's ever been covered by Kotaku. He's just attacking Vanillaware because it's a easy target, they're a small overseas company that can't put any kind of financial pressure on Kotaku, and the typical Japanese response to such attacks it to apologize.
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2013-04-26, 15:28 | Link #236 |
blinded by blood
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I'm not even really counting Dragon's Crown in the equation here. It's clear the artists were going for a grotesque style. None of the characters are the least bit attractive.
Generally speaking, though, ya'll are sitting there scratching your heads wondering why more of your girlfriends/wives/daughters/etc don't play video games. This is a small part as to why.
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2013-04-26, 15:32 | Link #237 | |
Darkness Is In All Of Us
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Somewhere In The Depths Of The Endless Abyss
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Yes I couldn't Agree More As For me I'm a Hardcore Female Gamer... to be honest I couldn't careless if the game wasn't really targeted for women. To me its all the same I guess (as long as I get to choose my Gender, I do like playing as a female of COURSE), I play the game beat it and move on to the next or replay it if I liked it enough... What we really need is MORE great RPGs!
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2013-04-26, 15:32 | Link #238 | |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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A hot female lead may or may not sell the game, but a ugly girl will certainly sink it. I think the only over weight female character I can think of (barring some kind of animmorphic character) is the Earth Princess (who is this farting fat-ass monster) from World of Warcraft. The company who made is Blizzard, I.E top dog of gaming industry, and made her a villain to be butchered, and only dared to do it once. That is saying something. |
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2013-04-26, 15:49 | Link #239 | |
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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The relatively low ratio of female games goes far beyond mere sexual bias in game design. games are no different than movies or books or any other medias when it comes to those bias, but those don't have any trouble finding female audience. From my own experience, most women I know either simply haven't even remotely thought about gaming at all (no, they didn't get offended, they never got that far), or is interested in nothing other than your typical browser games. Is there bias in games? yes, but just like in other medias, there are plenty of titles that are either aimed at women or are gender neutral. Dismissing the entire medium because of the aesthetic design of some of the products would be akin to me dismissing all vampire-related stories because of Twilight, or shunning all fiction books because of 50 shades of gray or any other romance novels. |
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2013-04-26, 15:49 | Link #240 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Personally I've never heard of vanillaware before nor I've ever seen their games (I guess I'm living under a rock), so after reading all these comments I became curious.
A simple search of "dragon's crown" on google images gave me several examples of the art used in this game and I must agree with those that say it's not just a single character, all of them are depicted with extreme attributes. But I don't quite get what is the fuss anymore, is it because the characters are too appealing or because they aren't appealing enough? Because frankly as some of you have said they are simply too strange to be "fappable" material including the huge boobs woman and let's not go over the amazon with disproportionate hips. Perhaps this can attract some niche fetishist, but the vast majority? let's be serious. But even if the characters aren't "beautiful" to me this art is very interesting it has a certain charm, just like Jojo's impossible anatomy or the acclaimed Picasso, you know. Humans are not made like that? And who cares? Isn't it long past the time when you needed to strictly adhere to real anatomy to make good art? I think everyone is looking at it in the wrong way. This artist is awesome, and if his purpose was really to sell through fan service, he would draw something more mainstream. In the end I feel that that author of Kotaku is really complaining that the sorceress's boobs are too big for his tastes and he covers his complaint with pseudo pro-feminist arguments.
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