Toradora! Generic discussion thread

[cry]

i really enjoyed the first episode, but damn, taiga is annoying. your house is cleaned and your breakfast is homemade, and you talk shit to the man. i hope she'll be something else than a ball of nerves. the parrot made me laugh a lot XD

[JMvS]

Originally Posted by Falkor

oh geez, I have to post these two images (probably those who have been following the manga would not find it as amusing) because of how relevant they are to the latest discussion...

edit: credits go to SCX-Scans for the translation

Thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

When I talked about bangs I didnt had in mind Taiga but

Spoiler for name:

Ami

I concur, in the novel she doesn't look as pretty as she should be, but manga and anime versions look fine for what I have seen.

[Darknemo2000]

for me what we have seen of her in the end I cannot say if she is prettier or not, but we see her too little to make a good conclusion. For me it looked similar to novels - meaning not very pretty.

In manga she is pretty good looking though.

[The Avatar]

Hi, love this first episode. I'll definitely be following it. I only have one issue. If this is in violation of any rules a mod can delete it.

I first saw gg's release and thought it was fine then I saw Mayu-Genjo's for comparison and the question about proper translation was raised in my head. gg translated Taiga's lines in the classroom "Wha- What ar- What are you do- What are you doing? That's your bag?! Isn't your seat the ne- I got the placements of the seats mix- mixed-!" Now I found this strange because I could clearly hear "Let go" even though it wasn't translated but I just ignored it. Then I saw Mayu-Genjo's release and they translate the same lines to "Oi, you...what are you doing?! Is it your bag? Do you sit beside him? Could it be that the let...let...let...Let go!" Now this really got me wondering about who had the more accurate translation.

Another example of differing translations is Taiga and Ryugi are talking on the veranda. In gg's release Ryuuji says "Wait ten more minutes! The seasoned rice will be done in ten more minutes!" In Mayu-Genjo's release Ryuuji says "Give me 30 minutes! There's only 30 minutes before the rice is done!"

Now normally I expect there to be differences in groups translations, mainly in regards to wording and vocabulary but the differences in these two lines make me wonder about the translation quality of both groups releases. Can anyone help me out here?

And another question I have, I've seen 720p raws of this around. Was this episode originally aired in hd or are some people just upscaling it cuz the raws don't look half bad.

[JediNight]

gg is more accurate in both cases.

In the bag-fight scene Taiga says:
"Ah! Wh-what are you doing??"
"That was your bag?"
"Your seat is the one next to--"
"Don't tell me, the row..."
"LET GO!" (This I'm unsure about, because often enough when you think they are randomly inserting English, half the time they aren't and it's just hard to make out. It sounds close enough and correlates with the manga however, so I give it a nod)

Unless I'm incorrect, I think gg just used some creative English to fill in the scene for better comprehension.

The cooking dialogue is mistranslated by Mayu-Genjo, as he clearly says ten minutes, but he was holding up 3 fingers on accident. So Taiga says "Three?" and he corrects himself and holds up 10 fingers then. In the MANGA it's 30 minutes -- but that's because she calls him at 5am when he's still asleep. In the anime they change things and have it more like 7am and he was already almost finished making breakfest and the bentos.

[typhonsentra]

I definitely agree her appearance is a big downgrade from the manga. With the new art style it really isn't very clear that she's supposed to be pretty. The biggest victim however is probably Kitamura.

[Ashlotte]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

for me what we have seen of her in the end I cannot say if she is prettier or not, but we see her too little to make a good conclusion. For me it looked similar to novels - meaning not very pretty.

In manga she is pretty good looking though.

*nods*

She has gorgeous hair in the manga...I know alot of times they use the description "She looks just like a doll" in anime for characters, but she honestly did look like an doll with that petite stature and hair...

Maybe they'll reallocate funds to properly animate it....Yea ok so i can dream right?

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by cry

i really enjoyed the first episode, but damn, taiga is annoying. your house is cleaned and your breakfast is homemade, and you talk shit to the man. i hope she'll be something else than a ball of nerves. the parrot made me laugh a lot XD

But that is part of her charm, I guess. That is one of the reason why she is very popular because of her personality, she has a gentle side (not yet on the anime but Novel/Manga is there), fierce side, her dere-dere side, and her Tsun side as well. I have a chance to look at the sub verison, I think that we have a keeper right here.

[FateAnomaly]

Somehow i have low opinion of someone who can live under such conditions and not do anything and beating up people with little provocation. Unless it is a comedy like Dokuro chan. I really don't understand why she is popular.

Anyway, that guy is pretty super i think. Volunteering to clean up and in 15 minutes is like some super power or something.

Anyway, seems interesting enough though.

[Midonin]

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

Anyway, that guy is pretty super i think. Volunteering to clean up and in 15 minutes is like some super power or something.

That reminds me that some of the first comments I saw on the Futaba board compared Ryuuji's powers to that of a Maid Guy. It would certainly be one explanation.

[JediNight]

Haha yeah, in the anime he has some pretty amazing cleaning powers. I don't think he gets the place quite that clean in the manga.

Although realistically he could have just picked up all the clothes and junk left everywhere in the apartment and just threw it on the floor in her room, since thats where all her clothes are anyways

[Irenicus]

Finally got around to watching it...

...and is pleasantly surprised!

It's actually good, not laugh-out-loud funny but it's fluffy fun. They get Ryuuji's character and expressions right; there are no problems in the pacing so far; my first impression of this Taiga is Chiaki-sama, not Louise et al, which is good; and, contrary to my own expectations, the voice cast proves excellent.

Taiga's voice of course is well-done, I don't exactly find it super or anything, but it's different from her "predecessors" enough to feel genuine; Ryuuji's introspective-style, though, I really dig it. I like introspective male characters.

Oh yes, on the ongoing Is-Taiga-That-Much-Of-A-[Tiger-Thingy] arguments, I'll just say that one must pay close attention to her blushing sprees, as they indicate her true feelings better than her mouth and outer attitude.

Criticisms so far:

1) I suppose the novel says Kitamura is supposed to look like that, but honestly, I can't shake out his "Hanai" impression and I think it's the best impression of his character anyway, so down with baby-face Kitamura!

2) Ami in the ED doesn't really impress me. She's not supposed to be just cute and a little pretty, she's supposed to be a model.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

Somehow i have low opinion of someone who can live under such conditions and not do anything and beating up people with little provocation. Unless it is a comedy like Dokuro chan. I really don't understand why she is popular.

It's always been a mystery to me why Louise, Taiga, those type of characters are popular. I don't see how one can like girls who beat people up for little reason and treat them so badly... is how I think (unless they have "special" hobbies). Tsun for tsunderes does mean the girl treats the protagonist coldly, but there's a limit to that...

[golthin]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

It's always been a mystery to me why Louise, Taiga, those type of characters are popular. I don't see how one can like girls who beat people up for little reason and treat them so badly... is how I think (unless they have "special" hobbies). Tsun for tsunderes does mean the girl treats the protagonist coldly, but there's a limit to that...

for the same reason that strong women like Levy from black lagoon and Chidori and Melissa from fulmental panic are so popular. I like the Louise type and also the Levy type.

[Darknemo2000]

Ami, should be a model and the prettiest girl in school however, in the novels she looks like ugliest (ofcourse saying ugly is relitive as all characters in manga usually look cute, but in Ami's case she is supposed to be a model and yet all other female characters look much better than her).

In manga however, Ami does indeed look like a model and I think it has to do with her changed bangs - they are not so thick, more delicate and better suiting with her slender figure.

In anime, though, from those short seconds I have seen her, her bangs look too thick again in novel style. Not as thick in novels but definitely not as good as in manga. Of course I can't say it for sure as simply they only see her for a few moments, but from what I see it does not look like she is a model at all, simply not pretty enough.

And serenade, why do people like characters like Yuki or Rei? Same way I guess is with tsunderes. Some prefer silent some prefer loud. Simply put tsunderes have stronger expressed personalities, yes sometimes it is very overused and all, but you cant argue about that.

I think people who like tsunderes like strong characters/personalities and tsunderes usually ARE the strongest ones (both physically and mentally) from the usual bunch of characters. Thats why Louise and others are so popular...

Though sometimes they can really be annoying, like for me Taiga is extremely annoying (surprisingly the likes like Louise or Asuka from Evangelion are not). But that is ones personal taste and it is very hard to question that as you have your own. Like you like Siesta from ZnT and I dont and cannot understand why would anyone like her, but that is a difference between ones tastes and taste is a thing that is very hard to understand.

[JediNight]

I think the big difference with Taiga is they actually do a good job of fleshing out her background to explain why her personality is the way it is. Most tsundere shows they never really have reasons behind, and we're just supposed to accept the abusive behavior.

Somehow i have low opinion of someone who can live under such conditions and not do anything and beating up people with little provocation. Unless it is a comedy like Dokuro chan. I really don't understand why she is popular.

Spoiler for Little spoilers:

I admit the condition of the kitchen is appalling. But since she's from a rich family, we can assume she was never taught practical living skills. She never got along with her parents, so she's got all this pent up frustration from not confiding her troubles in anyone else. She basically is just raging against the world as a coping mechanism. I would say she should have confided in Minori, but she really doesn't seem like the type that you could have a serious discussion with. She would just tell you it's okay and don't be down.

DarkNemo: I think the problem with most tsunderes is they are so one-dimensional. They're usually 90% Tsun and 10% Dere, and it's used merely as a comedic device. It's also fun to watch, but those same types of women in real life are dreaded in relationships. Heck, most anime being for the teen audience has a lack of multi-faceted characters...

[Darknemo2000]

Sorry but I dont find your argument about being one dimensional very valid - most characters are one dimensional. An always nice good girl, a silent type, vary shy girl, tsundere... All of them are onedimensional...

Yes characters like Horo from Spice and Wolf are multidimensional but those come rare. And I do not count Taiga as very multidimensional character either. Yes she has explained why she is like that but it is not as far reaching as lets say Asuka from Evangelion.

So all and all, since most of anime is based on onedimesnional characters for some tsundere come as best simply because they like strong personalities and tsundere gives and impression of being one and between the bunch of onedimensional characters this sort of onedemnsion starts to look as best.

Well some like for love to be challenging, and not be won straight away. Lets say what would happen if ZnT would be about Siesta/Saito a very boring story (though more realistic, but again reality is always made of many boring stories) in general since most of adventures comes from Louise and her environment just like the romance hardships.

Or some just like to find soft and weak behind the hard surface. If a character is always nice and good then eventually you forget about that and become used to it without giving any meaning, while with a challange you start to treasure those moments of kindness more...

[HayashiTakara]

Taiga actually isn't physically abusive. So you guys can throw that thought out of your minds. She's only verbally vulgar.

[Darknemo2000]

Umm...So what? She is still abusive. It doesn't change that much you know. She is still a tsundere.

And being verbally abusive doenst make it really better. Sometimes verbal wounds hurt much more and much longer than physical ones.

[Zippicus]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Taiga actually isn't physically abusive. So you guys can throw that thought out of your minds. She's only verbally vulgar.

She was seriously physically abusive in the 1st episode. Unless kicking Ryuuji's ass on their first meeting and swinging a bokuto at him later don't count.