AnimeSuki Forums

malaujai · 2004-09-09, 23:05

i think just the fact that if sarutobi can summon enma would have owned orochimaru (that doesnt sound right to me...), im trying to say that if sarutobi was in his prime and summoned enma, i think the fight would be wayyy easier for him

UserName · 2004-09-10, 00:19

Take a look at the flashback scene of the time when Oro left the village. The 3rd said he should have killed him then, Enma said he could've killed him if he wanted and he should've. Oro simply ran away.From all points, it means that even at the age of 58 or so the 3rd could've killed Oro.

Sabaku no Gaara · 2004-09-10, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by eviljiraiya

If the third was in his prime and orochimaru was as he was during their big fight, who would win (assuming that the Third doesnt use the death god summon)?.

I think Orochimaru would win. Hes got loads of bullshit techniques to pull on saurtobi.

For example, summoning the previous hokages, being able to kawarimi into mud or wotever, being able to vanish into the ground? and im pretty sure hes got more dirty tricks up his sleave.

Yeah, but the Third also knows every technique in Konoha, That's why they call him The Professor. Everyone said he was probably the strongest Hokage, I think he could own pretty much any shinobi in his prime.

Kidd · 2004-09-10, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by UserName

Take a look at the flashback scene of the time when Oro left the village. The 3rd said he should have killed him then, Enma said he could've killed him if he wanted and he should've. Oro simply ran away.From all points, it means that even at the age of 58 or so the 3rd could've killed Oro.

And what is it that tells you that Orochimaru-sama hasn't grown since then? He has his own village nowadays, even. I think he has taken every opportunity to train and get stronger through whatever dirty means he could find, it's simply in his character to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UserName

Hmmmm. If you trust in what the characters say then we know that Prime Sarutobi can beat anyone.

There are those who refuse to think Oro can lose. There are even those who think he can beat Itachi...

Don't even get me started on the overrated character who gets so exhausted he can't even keep his Sharingan up after using two of his jutsu. Sure I haven't seen Itachi go all-out but I doubt Orochimaru-sama would have trouble if he just concentrated on countering the Sharingan, Itachi seems like a one-trick pony. Everyone refers to the time when Orochimaru-sama refers to Itachi as stronger than him in episode 81, which is something I can't buy yet from what we have seen. We know from Orochimaru-sama's conversation with Jiraiya in episode 94 that Orochimaru-sama thinks of the Sharingan extremely highly and curses his own lack of it (ep40). It's only natural that he would say Itachi is stronger than him since he has a higher potential due to the Sharingan. Orochimaru-sama however is a prodigy of hard work and a prodigy in himself as well, he won't be beaten that easily :P

VMLM3 · 2004-09-10, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd

Don't even get me started on the overrated character who gets so exhausted he can't even keep his Sharingan up after using two of his jutsu. Sure I haven't seen Itachi go all-out but I doubt Orochimaru-sama would have trouble if he just concentrated on countering the Sharingan, Itachi seems like a one-trick pony. Everyone refers to the time when Orochimaru-sama refers to Itachi as stronger than him in episode 81, which is something I can't buy yet from what we have seen. We know from Orochimaru-sama's conversation with Jiraiya in episode 94 that Orochimaru-sama thinks of the Sharingan extremely highly and curses his own lack of it (ep40). It's only natural that he would say Itachi is stronger than him since he has a higher potential due to the Sharingan. Orochimaru-sama however is a prodigy of hard work and a prodigy in himself as well, he won't be beaten that easily :P

Itachi vs Orochimaru...
that's just a whole different vs thread and I really don't think we should go into it. The thing is Orochimaru has two major hinderences, the first and most obvious one is his fear of death, if he senses there's a big chance he might die he won't take a risk, examples? Trying to not face Sarutobi unless he has a clear advantage, not wanting to face Itachi, creating a jutsu that will insure he will never die.
The second is the pleasure he takes in watching others suffer. If you don't know what I mean look at it this way, if he'd flat out stabbed Sarutobi with his sword when he had the chance the fight would've ended then and there. But he prefered to watch him suffer in his twisted little scenario, which in turn permitted Sarutobi to seal his arms.

M.G. · 2004-09-10, 19:55

I don’t think you realise just how much of an affect age has on a person. Even five to ten years can have an extremely large impact on a person, and the third was way past that. Think about the physical fitness of your grandparents compared to any 20-30 year old. Age has had a massive impact on the third, which is why he chose a new hokage. It is very likely that the third has lost a lot more strength, than what oro has grown.

Now, we don’t know for sure that oro can summon stronger creatures than the third, because we don’t know just what else the third can summon. The pair was fighting in an enclosed area making it impossible to summon the larger summons. For all we know, the third could have summoned king kong. This is kind of irrelevant anyway, because with both individuals knowing so many techniques, it is likely that they both have a way to deal with summons.

Also, we don’t know if oro has reached his prime yet. Age doesn’t affect him and he is constantly, trying to learn and improve. Maybe one day he will become stronger than the third in his prime, but I doubt that he is at the moment for all the reasons everybody else has mentioned. If he was, he wouldn’t have waited until the third was so old before he attacked.

UserName · 2004-09-10, 20:42

Kidd... You ignore all things said by the characters. First you say that Oro can beat The 3rd in his Prime(I doubt anyone can beat him) now you are saying that Oro can beat Itachi when Oro clearly stated from first hand expereince of being in the same group(who knows maybe he was his partner) as him.

lotus_lee · 2004-09-10, 21:21

The 3rd Hokage would have whipped Orochimaru's ass had he been younger. He is claimed to the the strongest Hokage of all time (excluding what may have happened had the 4th Hokage remained alive) and he knows pretty much all the jutsu there is to know.

NeoKakashi · 2004-09-11, 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd

It's called context. They were speaking about the soul-pulling, why would he suddenly talk about anything else? Let me translate these sentances myself and I'll see how I get it:

Sarutobi: I've come this far... I've come all the way here... is it possible that my current strength itself isn't enough to pull out his soul? Can it be that this geezer's body isn't enough of a sacrifice?

Orochimaru-sama: If this was 10 years ago, you could have killed me now, couldn't you? *small laugh and pulls up sword*

It should be obvious that he doesn't mean "in this fight" but that it's context-based, "now" as in "with this freaking jutsu that is holding on to my soul and hurting like nothing else".

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one.

(The meaning of the 10 years quote-thingy, that is.)

Although I am basing this entirely on my opinion, it's my opinion and I am allowed to interpret the line any way I choose, and I hope you respect that ^_^

I feel that Orochimaru did mean Sarutobi would win the fight if he were younger, not seal his soul. I know they were currently speaking about the soul extraction and all, but, in my opinion, Orochimaru knew he was going to pull out the sword like he did, and he basically thought the fight was over, therefore was making a final statement about how he could be killed if Sarutobi was 10 years younger.

IF he was simply speaking about Sarutobi being able to extract his soul if he was 10 years younger, why didn't he just say
"You could have pulled out my soul if you were 10 years younger"?
It doesn't make much sense to me, and I think your Orochimaru fangirlism kicking in a little too much

*Dodges any items Kidd throws at me with her raging Orochimaru-Fangirl attack, weather they be fruits, erasers, or CHICKEEEEENS!!!*

BUT, people, I always like to look at both sides of the argument, so here's some other junk now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UserName

Enma appearantly has a very nice weapon that he can manipulate and he can do all the jutsu he wants. Who knows maybe one as high powered as Edo Tensei. That's an assumption, just like you are assuming things.

Dude, Enma is that weapon, he doesn't have a nice weapon.

Orochimaru already proved he could easily own the Enma staff anyway...

BTW these vs. battles are all about assuming. I'd assume that Manda would bite Enma's head off and then shit his head out onto his body.

Of course he has attack Jutsu. He thinks Jutsu's are everything. You think that after all those years (Before he wanted to eat Sasuke's "beautiful body", or whatever

) he wouldn't learn any powerful attack Jutsu? I highly doubt that, or he wouldn't feel he was strong enough to take on, well, anybody <_<
How the hell do you think he killed Kazekage? I highly doubt he summoned the 1st and 2nd before his fight with Sarutobi, so that leaves his attack Jutsu.
Plus, who would he use as sacrifices?

Quote:

Originally Posted by UserName

Kidd... You ignore all things said by the characters. First you say that Oro can beat The 3rd in his Prime(I doubt anyone can beat him) now you are saying that Oro can beat Itachi when Oro clearly stated from first hand expereince of being in the same group(who knows maybe he was his partner) as him.

Yeah, come on, you're getting just a little absurd now.

Orochimaru himself said he would lose to Itachi, and I believe it was stated that he left the Akatsuki because of his fear of Itachi. No, it's not just because Itachi has the Sharingan. I have a little theory.

It's pretty obvious that Orochimaru has seen Itachi's power first hand. They were in the same organization. Itachi can't just play around with everybody like he did with Kurenai, don't you think? There must have been some reason that Orochimaru saw Itachi's full power (or a pretty big portion of his power) that caused him to fear Itachi. Now, I suspect that this is where he started to crave the Sharingan, although he felt that Itachi was too powerful to beat, so he went for the next best (and weaker) thing; his brother, Sasuke, of course

*Please excuse any misuse of grammar or spelling people, I've had a, umm, "long night" and I'm tired XD. Now, off to bed with me

Ogata · 2004-09-11, 00:49

i still say Sarutobi would win in his prime and he wouldn't have to use the seal jutsu.. he could've plomped him if he didn't smoke...eh did anybody think about that? maybe the Tobacco screwed up his Chakra system n he ended up making radical decisions

NeoKakashi · 2004-09-12, 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogata

i still say Sarutobi would win in his prime and he wouldn't have to use the seal jutsu.. he could've plomped him if he didn't smoke...eh did anybody think about that? maybe the Tobacco screwed up his Chakra system n he ended up making radical decisions

LOL, I don't really think so, although it would effect his health, I don't think it effect Chakra

eLstar · 2004-09-12, 20:46

NoSanninWa said it best. Hell, it was pretty much obvious anyway. And with that there is no more use of this thread.

View Poll Results: Who would win?
Sarutobi in this Prime	103	91.15%
Orochimaru	10	8.85%
Draw	0	0%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

2004-09-09, 23:05	Link #61
malaujai Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004	i think just the fact that if sarutobi can summon enma would have owned orochimaru (that doesnt sound right to me...), im trying to say that if sarutobi was in his prime and summoned enma, i think the fight would be wayyy easier for him

2004-09-10, 00:19	Link #62
UserName Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004	Take a look at the flashback scene of the time when Oro left the village. The 3rd said he should have killed him then, Enma said he could've killed him if he wanted and he should've. Oro simply ran away.From all points, it means that even at the age of 58 or so the 3rd could've killed Oro.

2004-09-10, 19:55	Link #66
M.G. Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004	I don’t think you realise just how much of an affect age has on a person. Even five to ten years can have an extremely large impact on a person, and the third was way past that. Think about the physical fitness of your grandparents compared to any 20-30 year old. Age has had a massive impact on the third, which is why he chose a new hokage. It is very likely that the third has lost a lot more strength, than what oro has grown. Now, we don’t know for sure that oro can summon stronger creatures than the third, because we don’t know just what else the third can summon. The pair was fighting in an enclosed area making it impossible to summon the larger summons. For all we know, the third could have summoned king kong. This is kind of irrelevant anyway, because with both individuals knowing so many techniques, it is likely that they both have a way to deal with summons. Also, we don’t know if oro has reached his prime yet. Age doesn’t affect him and he is constantly, trying to learn and improve. Maybe one day he will become stronger than the third in his prime, but I doubt that he is at the moment for all the reasons everybody else has mentioned. If he was, he wouldn’t have waited until the third was so old before he attacked.

2004-09-10, 20:42	Link #67
UserName Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004	Kidd... You ignore all things said by the characters. First you say that Oro can beat The 3rd in his Prime(I doubt anyone can beat him) now you are saying that Oro can beat Itachi when Oro clearly stated from first hand expereince of being in the same group(who knows maybe he was his partner) as him.

2004-09-10, 21:21	Link #68
lotus_lee Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London, UK Age: 38	The 3rd Hokage would have whipped Orochimaru's ass had he been younger. He is claimed to the the strongest Hokage of all time (excluding what may have happened had the 4th Hokage remained alive) and he knows pretty much all the jutsu there is to know.

2004-09-11, 00:49	Link #70
Ogata Underling Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Angelic Layer Stadium	i still say Sarutobi would win in his prime and he wouldn't have to use the seal jutsu.. he could've plomped him if he didn't smoke...eh did anybody think about that? maybe the Tobacco screwed up his Chakra system n he ended up making radical decisions

2004-09-12, 20:46	Link #72
eLstar (^_^)v Join Date: May 2003	NoSanninWa said it best. Hell, it was pretty much obvious anyway. And with that there is no more use of this thread.