2010-12-05, 12:51 | Link #19441 |
Miss Kimi
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Residing as the 18th guest of Rokkenjima
Age: 28
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Hmm...I find you guys very interesting to read about, I'm gone one night and come back to all these amazing theories~
Anywho...as for the bomb....I heard about this one. How the epitaph was actually supposed to warn you of the bomb, and that the gold was in a bomb shelter so if you found the gold, the bomb wouldn't kill you. But where did this theory come up from? And who would've planted it on the island? And WHERE could it possibly be hiding? In the well, or in the chapel? Sorry, I would think it'd be O_O if it was a bomb...People are also saying Yasu was setting it up. But why would she set it up, if she just wanted a friendly fake-mystery game with Battler?
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2010-12-05, 12:51 | Link #19442 | ||
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
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But I think that the actual things the Ushiromiyas do are really dumb and cliched (forcing out the servants whenever there's trouble) and it makes more sense if it's planned like a script. The Fake murder scheme by Shannon also explains the bank accounts better than "Shannon is the culprit". And the family members are only going along because they are being bribed by Shannon's gold! And there's also A servant cannot be the culprit!, stated by Van Dine in EP7. Quote:
Yasu did not know about the bomb: Shannon's goal, for Battler to solve the Epitaph, just happened to be the only way for him to survive when the bomb went off. That's "meh" though. I don't like coincidences. |
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2010-12-05, 13:04 | Link #19443 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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But yes, it can't explain the bank accounts. But I really don't imagine the parents going along with a mascarade, even for money. And especially with this story of resolving the epitaph. If the whole thing was a set-up, it wasn't necessary to talk about resolving the epitaph. It seems more like someone challenging them to prove that he is better than them, and therefore more worthy of the Ushiromiya's fortune. There is also another thing (unrelated to what I said previously, I precise): is it explicitly stated that Kinzo and Asumu's deaths were natural deaths and not murders ? |
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2010-12-05, 13:11 | Link #19444 | |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
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And it really depends on your definition of servant: if Shannon truly is not considered a servant by Ryukishi, then the Red Truth does not apply. Don't forget how BADLY the siblings need the money. I think they would do anything for Yasu's gold. They just don't want to kill her immediately because Shannon knows where the gold is. I also think the siblings are told by Shannon to NEVER drop the charade or else they won't get paid. That is why nobody questions the crime scenes: they really want the money and are afraid to see if the people are actually dead. |
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2010-12-05, 13:12 | Link #19445 | |
Miss Kimi
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Residing as the 18th guest of Rokkenjima
Age: 28
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As for Asumu, they just say she died. Nobody even knows what she looks like, just that she died when Battler was 13. (Yeah, I think it was 6 years ago when she died, it's what caused Battler to live with his grandparents for the next 6 years)
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2010-12-05, 14:22 | Link #19446 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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the gold of the Golden Land belongs to this child Her goal is not to make someone experience fear. And it isn't to have revenge on someone either. Beato never committed murder for the sake of pleasure. It isn't for hate. It isn't for money. It isn't for revenge. It isn't for pleasure. Yasu's reasons are nothing of that sort.
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2010-12-05, 14:45 | Link #19447 | |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
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2010-12-05, 14:53 | Link #19448 | |
The True Culprit
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The thing is, aside from Gohda, the servants of the Rokkenjima family are not beneath suspicion. They're all complicit in several dirty secrets from several different people and groups, and atleast one of them is demonstrated to be totally out of her mind and emotionally unstable. So, no, by it's intended meaning, Dine's 7th does not protect any of the Rokkenjima servants except Gohda.
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2010-12-05, 14:57 | Link #19449 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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It all seems like the act was to hit Battler over the head with two themes; mysteries and love. As if making him realize these things would jog his head about Shannon, whom he used to talk about these things to. And of course, EP5 shows us that after the faking, real murders occur, since people could state in red that the people who faked were murdered eventually. And EP3's ending shows Eva killing Battler, showing us that there's at least one person there who is willing to kill when feeling threatened... |
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2010-12-05, 15:04 | Link #19450 |
test
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 30
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I think why Yasu thinks she can't love and she's furniture is because of how no one really wanted her. Think about it. Kinzo gives Yasu to Natsuhi; She gets thrown off a cliff. Genji and Nanjo save her; they put her in an orphanage. Then she goes to work in Rokkenjima...And the servants don't like her, or something. She finds about getting tossed around fron Kinzo to Natsuhi to Genji and Nanjo and starts thinking she's furniture. If she couldn't be loved, then she reasoned she couldn't love anyone.
BTW, I haven't read EP7.
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2010-12-05, 15:20 | Link #19451 | |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
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And yes, aside from Kyrie killing the fakers, somebody has to kill Kyrie by the end of the game (or the bomb gets her). EDIT: After all, Battler, the guy who figured out the truth, used the fake First Twilight as a part of his solution. Therefore, it seems like "somebody coordinating the fake deaths" is a part of the core of the Umineko series. I just connected this to Shannon's love of mystery to make Shannon is bribing everyone with money to play a game with Battler, then Kyrie starts actually committing murder. |
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2010-12-05, 15:44 | Link #19452 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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This is a little unrelated to the topic at hand, but I think it's kinda cool.
Remember how in Episode 4, Everyone acknowledged the existence of Kinzo? And how GOLDSMITH summoned Yasu's magical friends like Gaap, Ronove, and the Siestas? Well, looks like we finally have an answer to that riddle. And hurray, it's almost exactly the same as my pet favourite theory from Ep. 6, Kanon-is-Kinzo. Yasu decided, in the fictional world of Episode 4, to claim her place as the Ushiromiya family head once they realized that Kinzo was already dead. She reads Kinzo's will to everyone else, and they accept that Yasu is legitimately Kinzo's heir. She then proceeds to attempt to orchestrate the fake deaths from each Episode, and then gets taken advantage of. In short, Kanon is Shannon is Beatrice is Yasu is Kinzo. Just by the existence of Gaap, this level of reasoning is possible for Erika Furudo. What do you think, everyone? |
2010-12-05, 15:57 | Link #19453 | |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
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Hehe, that fits perfectly with what we were saying before. "Kinzo" was a title given to Shannon/Kanon after revealing that he/she found the gold and became the head. I forgot about that XD So, Yasu = Shannon = Kanon = Claire = Kinzo = Beatrice = Alternate-reality Lion. That's another universal truth, then, that is only explicitly mentioned in EP4: Shannon becomes "Kinzo" (the family head) and everyone acknowledges it. Using the gold, she manipulates everyone to do her bidding but is then manipulated herself. Thanks for bringing up that hint |
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2010-12-05, 16:02 | Link #19455 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Well I guess you could say that in a way since Yasu is the heir and Yasu is Kanon.
However I'm really not comfortable with the concept that "if you are the heir you are Kinzo". It doesn't make any sense to me. And if shkanon is true we can exclude that "Kinzo" is Kanon's real name. I think the trick of that red is more on the fact that they acknowledged the existence of Kinzo. Why it doesn't simply say that Kinzo existed? Because he didn't. There is absolutely no Kinzo. Yasu simply made them acknowledge the existence of Kinzo the same way she made them acknowledge the existence of the witch Beatrice in EP2. @DaBackpak and Kylon I think Beatrice/Yasu simply is the "culprit" of the fictional games. For what concern the games Yasu is to be considered the culprit even if in reality she didn't actually do it. These are after all Beatrice's games, so even if an opportunity killer like Kyrie existed in Rokkenjima Prime, that still wouldn't make her the "true culprit" of the games. The reason Yasu did it is simple: she needed to select the new heir, and at the same time the person she would love, which at the same time would decide her own fate, because depending on the winner she would either be Shannon, Kanon or Beatrice forever, killing off the remaining personalities.
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2010-12-05, 16:07 | Link #19456 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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This is one of the things that got me confused about BATTLER in episode 6, I seriously doubt he anticipated Erika not using the detective authority and Im pretty he knew that she would thoroughly check the corpses with it seeing as he eliminated all tape on the island and "killed" most of the suspects from the previous games. The game was odd in it self because there was a lot of foreshadowing of the murderer killing the detective in that arc and it did start earlier than usual. Im pretty sure that the characters where dead in EP5 as well, but since Erika didn't check the corpses Lambda was able to bring them back to life and move them. |
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2010-12-05, 16:19 | Link #19457 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Speaking of Battler's game, I'd say it's completely obvious because of it that Yasu isn't the culprit in Real Rokkenjima.
Battler's game was to show that he truly understood Beatrice, and to do so his game would have to use the same fundamental truths. One of which would be the culprit's identity. However, Battler puts himself as the culprit of his game. In other words, the Game Master's avatar is the scapegoat. Battler obviously wasn't the culprit in Beato's game or Lambda's game. So, Yasu and Battler are both "culprits" and yet they're different people. Therefore, thanks to this contradiction, neither of them can be the real culprit. As if we needed more evidence. |
2010-12-05, 16:23 | Link #19458 | ||
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
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I'm honestly confused when it comes to "whether Yasu is the culprit in her own stories" but I think I can speak for Rokkenjima Prime when I say Shannon has not committed murder. Edit: Quote:
In BATTLER's story (EP6), the person planning the fake deaths is different than the person actually killing people. The First Twilight in EP6 seems to me to be a hint of the real setup of Beatrice's games. Ryukishi stopped there or else everything else would be more obvious. It might be more like "Beatrice is taking something that happened in real life (Rokkenjima Prime) and is changing the methods of murder to create more mysteries". But as I said, all of this thinking on multiple planes is hurting my brain x_x so there's a good chance I'm wrong about this stuff. Last edited by DaBackpack; 2010-12-05 at 16:46. |
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2010-12-05, 16:52 | Link #19460 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
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I think there might be sort of a 'reverse Higurashi' going on.
In Higurashi, the people being manipulated were mostly innocent (to an extent), and were the good guys even if they committed murder. The real culprit was the real evil- the one manipulating them. In Umineko, though, it seems pretty obvious to me that Yasu is good, despite being the one that seems to be causing it all to happen. If Ep7's Tea Party is an indication of the truth, and 'Both Kyrie and Eva has a chance to kill everyone, along with the others' is true, as it says... then maybe in this case the culprit is actually a good guy, and the people they're manipulating end up being the real threat? So perhaps we get a situation like Higurashi where who commits the actual murders differs from Episode to Episode, but we still have one 'sole culprit', as per the Dine rules. It's just the culprit of the crime doesn't want the crime to be real. I'm not 100% sure on how it all fits, but just throwing that out there. Also, please tell me I'm not the only one that thought it pretty obvious that Yasu's full name should be Yasuda Sayo, because one of my friends thinks it's a weird conclusion to make <.< |
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