Physical Attractiveness

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

I said she's at fault for being pretty, because she purposefully tones her beauty, I didn't say she's asking to be raped.

You know, girls do not tone their beauty just to make boys being all "ahhh, my pants are getting tight" or something similar, they can do it for themselves too, yeah kinda surprising, i know.

And a reply to someone above, that said that at times the rape-victims are kinda semi-asking to be raped, then i guess they should get sued with the rapists too huh?

[Levy]

I said she's at fault for being pretty, because she purposefully tones her beauty, I didn't say she's asking to be raped.

...why do you say she's at fault, then?


I've heard a quite shocking interview on the italian TV of a woman that has been raped at a New Year Eve's party. In the interview, she was saying something along the lines of "now I feel like I have to hide myself, stop taking care of my body, try to make myself look worse because this way I can protect myself..."

I found it shockingly horrible.
Not only that woman has been hurted in the most awfull way possible, but she's also facing the wrong idea that she's partially her fault, and this is something that stems from a barbarian idea that finding something desirable is enough of an alibi to take it, moreover when talking about women and sex.
Any civilized society should reject this idea, since it's an idea that is hurting the victims and excusing the criminals - quite the contrary of everything that we call 'civil'.

[Kafriel]

Okay, the question was, if it's a girl's fault for being pretty, and I said, that when they do all the thing they do just to look pretty, then it's through their actions that they become pretty, thus being responsible for it. And please try to realize that not all men are animals acting on instinct and that men get raped too.

excusing the criminals

Rape by causing fear in the victim for themselves or for another person to override consent: life imprisonment
Rape using violence or the threat of violence to override consent:life imprisonment
Statutory rape involving an adult perpetrator with a previous conviction: life imprisonment
All other forms of rape incur mandatory imprisonment for up to 20 years and there's no way to just pay a fine and walk away. I wouldn't call that, excusing criminals.

[Vexx]

I've noticed several posters use the term "at fault" in a manner that makes me think it isn't carrying the same linguistic flavor for them as we in North America (or a couple of other countries) perceive it. Here in the litigious US, "at fault" carries a very damning blame with it. We also have a very strong sense of the *right* of any human being to be able to travel anywhere with any sort of clothing without fear of assault.

Yeah, that's very idealistic.... but the occasional person that suggests a girl "deserved it" because of the way she dressed or was "at fault" is going to be tarred and feathered in the US. You might as well have said the "black person deserved the hanging for trying to eat at the white folk restaurant".

[Narona]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Okay, the question was, if it's a girl's fault for being pretty, and I said, that when they do all the thing they do just to look pretty, then it's through their actions that they become pretty, thus being responsible for it. And please try to realize that not all men are animals acting on instinct and that men get raped too.

Then a black man who gets hurt by racists is at fault to live in a country in which the majority is white.

yeah, right, I disagree.

Rape by causing fear in the victim for themselves or for another person to override consent: life imprisonment
Rape using violence or the threat of violence to override consent:life imprisonment
Statutory rape involving an adult perpetrator with a previous conviction: life imprisonment
All other forms of rape incur mandatory imprisonment for up to 20 years and there's no way to just pay a fine and walk away. I wouldn't call that, excusing criminals

And you're talking about laws in your country. Hint: The sentences and how it is judged is not the same in every country.

You should check what is the supposed "life emprisonment" in France.

[Kafriel]

^ No actually they're the laws in the US.

Then a black man who gets hurt by racists is at fault to live in a country in which the majority is white.

Invalid example, girls can do something about their physical attractiveness, coloured people can't change the way they were born.

[Levy]

I wouldn't call that, excusing criminals.

saying that

Originally Posted by Kafriel

when they do all the thing they do just to look pretty, then it's through their actions that they become pretty, thus being responsible for it.

is implying that the victim has her share of responsability in what she went through, and this is an idea that I, at least, find litterally revolting.

Punishing a crime and partially justifying it are two very different things: one may think that a man that cold-blood murders the assassin of his son is 'understandable' in his reasons for that, and he'd still be a criminal and punished as such.

And please try to realize that not all men are animals acting on instinct and that men get raped too.

It's you talking about girls (not people, girls) being at fault for making themselves pretty. This is a very machist concept, and it has nothing to do with the fact that also man get raped, since is of females we were talking about.

[Kafriel]

Okay, let's set some things straight.
1) I said girls and women are responsible for how they look, they can change their appearance, it's a result of their actions. I don't justify a damn thing in crimes and nothing I said had anything to do with rape victims. Don't assume things on your own.
2) Narona used the term "at fault" first, my quoting has to be coherent with the previous posting style.
3)

is implying that the victim has her share of responsability in what she went through, and this is an idea that I, at least, find litterally revolting.

Good for you, I never said that.
Before anyone else posts on this thread I expect them to carefully go through what people write, thanks.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Invalid example, girls can do something about their physical attractiveness, coloured people can't change the way they were born.

You're asserting that girls should keep themselves ugly to avoid assault? Man, you are so toasting yourself and your credibility there. :P Many girls are *naturally* pretty.

Maybe you need to more *carefully* consider how you are writing.
You keep using the phrases "responsible" and "at fault" ... I don't think you're grasping the nuances and associative implications of those phrases that lead everyone else in the thread to respond to you the way they are.

[Kafriel]

Quoting myself would be seriously lame, just read my post above.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

^ No actually they're the laws in the US.

And there are not the same in France.

Invalid example, girls can do something about their physical attractiveness, coloured people can't change the way they were born.

[/QUOTE]
So a naturaly pretty girl should try to look ugly just because there are morons who don't respect the laws.

I will say what i said again, being pretty and wearing nice clothes is not a crime and is not seen as a possible excuse for a crimina/rapistl by the court of law in France, thanksfully. And i doubt this is different in the US.

I still say it, you're totally wrong.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

^ No actually they're the laws in the US.

Invalid example, girls can do something about their physical attractiveness, coloured people can't change the way they were born.

You mean not really caring themselves much or tone their beauty cause this might initiate or triggers potentially something dangerous? Because this is what is being implied in your latest posts, correct me if i am wrong.

[Kafriel]

You're all missing a very basic thing, the concept of beauty changes per individual. For a person who thinks they are pretty, they could be ugly to another. Everyone has their own perception of beauty, so saying things like "naturally pretty" are moot.

I will say what i said again, being pretty and wearing nice clothes is not a crime and is not seen as a possible excuse for a criminal by the court of law in France, thanksfully.

If you post again in this thread, quote the part where I said it's a crime. Do it.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

You're all missing a very basic thing, the concept of beauty changes per individual. For a person who thinks they are pretty, they could be ugly to another. Everyone has their own perception of beauty, so saying things like "naturally pretty" are moot.

If you post again in this thread, quote the part where I said it's a crime. Do it.

Raising that point doesn't change anything.

You said "at fault", meaning that in a society it would be seen as a "fault", meaning that it is bad. That implies that in a court of law, it could be raised as a point to defend a criminal.

But, there is no such things. Whatever a person's look, no one as a right to assault them, because it's not a fault. That's a fact. Period.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Narona

But, there is no such things. Whatever a person's look, no one as a right to assault them. That's a fact. Period.

I actually have to agree with this default point, lol, i never thought i would actually have to argue for the automatic-default-setting, but oh well, we lived enough to see that one as well. 8DD

[Kafriel]

AND I QUOTE!

Originally Posted by Narona

As a fan of clothes, I just oppose you (again). What you say is not always true. Yes, you pay the brand, but for example, if you look closely, the quality of a piece of cloth from a French or Italian Grand Couturier has nothing to do with the clothes you can buy at the supermarket.

I don't say I am buying ton of them (Most of the time I just go to the stores and try the clothes or do windows shopping), but the asthonishing quality is there. I don't say that all the pieces of clothes are beautiful. There are a lot of awful clothes and collections (visually), but even so, the quality of the dressmaking is astonishing. And there are a lot of beautiful clothes that you'll never find in normal stores.



Going by your way of thinking, why don't people just kill themselves since they're destined to die?

I could write pages about beauty and health, but I will just say that you're wrong if you think that everything is bullshit.



I am a busy person and I still find a lot the time for beauty, health, cuisine, chores etc. But I just don't play videogames a lot, and such (i don't blame VG, i Love VG, i just don't have the time for it). I just follow my dah homemade daily schedule rigorously.


One of the key points even before talking about skills is that you have to choose the products that are the best for your skin, hair etc.

For example, the creams i buy are very good for me, given how is my skin. Many girls *just* buy things without wondering if it's compatible or not with their skin. You don't buy a foundation cream for normal skin if you have a dry skin. That's utterly stupid and it can actually harm your skin. I don't talk about not having the money for good products, but about those who don't choose properly.


No one can predict death (aside from a "we will all die someday"), but one can plan thing. If I start to plan my life just by considering the fact that I could die tomorrow, then I would do Nothing at all.



If the girl wants a long term relationship, then it can't work if her BF just doesn't plan anything about their future. Not thinking before acting, in this case, will lead the couple to nothing good imo.



IMO it will require my whole life, not just 20 years. Whether my child is 1 month or 40 years old, I will still be his/her mother, and try to be there for him/her whenever he/she needs me. I don't see it as a sacrifice since I am supposed to have chosen to have a baby. It will be my responsibility.

About the money, I know a couple of couples who live well even if the girl doesn't have a job because she takes care of their kids. I don't know how it works in the usa, but here it's possible to do good studies even if you're quite poor and to end up with a well-paid job. Not all achieve it, but it's mainly because it requires to work harder than ever at school.


I do the same




As I said above, in France, it's still possible for the girl to be a housewife (nowadays it doesn't happen often, but most of the time it's a choice, and not because it's not possible). And it's still possible for people to do very good studies that don't cost a lot and that end up with a good job (our system is criticized but you can be poor and end up at the top. The husband of one of my best friends comes from a family who had financial problems, and has an excellent job now. They are already parents, so I am well aware of those things)



So a pretty girl is at fault to be pretty? o____o



Since when is it a good excuse. If the society accepted that as a perfect excuse, we would just not condemn the rapes and act no differently than the other animals.




In the USA, maybe, but it's not true for everyone here. There are many men who are real softie here o.o

About going commando, meh... <.<



I would have preferred to not read that. Next time I'll not look



Don't put all the men in the same bag, that would be insulting for some of them I know a few young men that are not like what you think (that could explain why most of them are already married/fiançé <.<)



You can say awful things (really), and act like a brat, but it happens that you do say things that make sense.

You seem to bear hard-feelings and resentment, but you also seem to be aware of many important things (even if you don't inevitably put them in practice).

A real crazy and stupid person would not think like that. I might be wrong but you give me the feeling of a prisoner in despair who can't do anything, gets mad at it, says many stupidities without really believing in them, and so do mistakes and bad things, but is [still] not crazy.




As I see it, there's no age limit for parents to help their childrens. That doesn't mean to raise spoiled brats, but we don't become parents for only 20 or 30 years (I don't count those who die early). For the rest of our life, I consider that we have to bear that responsibility. The ones who choose to have sex and make children are the parents. I saw parents who blame their children as if it was the fault of the kid to exist. Sometimes I wish that those people will never have any children, because they don't take their responsibilities.



It's not that simple. Most of the not so good looking people, even them, can find love and desire to have children. I am crap at science, but i have seen a documentary about cases of two persons who are not good looking or have health problems, but who had quite nice children. I don't say it means that it happens often, but just that it apparently can.

About the cases of recessive or dysfunctional genes, you may be right ; but I think we can understand how they could also wish for children (having children). Sometimes, it worths it to take the risk. In the documentary that I was talking about, there was that case of two Little persons (dwarfism) who had a good looking normal boy. That boy also bears the recessive or dysfunctional genes even if he looks normal; but he didn't blame his parents. And thanks to the science, maybe one day, we will able to help those people to get rid of those genes.

Life is also all about thinking, and taking some risks

you said it first.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

AND I QUOTE!

you said it first.

You missed the ? ?

I raised up a question after having read thoughts, because i felt that it implied that.

I never said I agree that it is a fault.

Try again.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Narona

I will say what i said again, being pretty and wearing nice clothes is not a crime and is not seen as a possible excuse for a crimina/rapistl by the court of law in France, thanksfully. And i doubt this is different in the US.

I still say it, you're totally wrong.

Actually what is really meant is that the girl should dress at least modestly to avoid rape. Sure she can wear a low cut spaghetti to show off her boobs, but at least wear it a little higher or a jacket around it. Neither does she need to wear a skirt so mini that she shows her panties every time she takes a step forward.

I don't believe in the right to assault females sexually on random, but neither do I believe that the girls should extrovertly flaunt themselves by underdressing.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Actually what is really meant is that the girl should dress at least modestly to avoid rape. Sure she can wear a low cut spaghetti to show off her boobs, but at least wear it a little higher or a jacket around it. Neither does she need to wear a skirt so mini that she shows her panties every time she takes a step forward.

I don't believe in the right to assault females sexually on random, but neither do I believe that the girls should extrovertly flaunt themselves by underdressing.

Avoid? Again, "avoid"? Excuse me people, honest now, is there a concept like this out there?
Well, personally, i am not wearing bikini-clothes and drink all night, not really my thing, but still, people that do that harm themselves, not others. Rapists, do exactly the opposite.
And stuff like "you could have avoided" or "hum, you might not wanna wear this tonight" just make me want to flash certain people on another planet. One, can do whatever he wants, as long as he does not harm the other. And yes, even explicit clothing.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Actually what is really meant is that the girl should dress at least modestly to avoid rape. Sure she can wear a low cut spaghetti to show off her boobs, but at least wear it a little higher or a jacket around it. Neither does she need to wear a skirt so mini that she shows her panties every time she takes a step forward.

I don't believe in the right to assault females sexually on random, but neither do I believe that the girls should extrovertly flaunt themselves by underdressing.

That doesn't change anything. She has the right to wear a miniskirt without giving an excuse to people to rape her. That's the law. If one person breaks the law, then she/he is at fault. In the case of being pretty and wearing miniskirt there's no such thing that is seen as a fault in the laws and justice.

You can argue as much as you want, it's your personal opinion, but it doesn't mean that's right or legal or a possible valid excuse.