AnimeSuki Forums

Feng Lengshun · 2014-01-24, 09:24

Campione! was actually very well-above average in terms of speed on quality. Most people aren't that diligent and skilled. On the two translators thing, one was outsourcing (the one that translates the latter ones) so lack of coordination is a given. I've once complained about the translation quality drop (especially consistency) because of it about 5-10 pages ago.

RpR1337 · 2014-01-24, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feng Lengshun

Campione! was actually very well-above average in terms of speed on quality. Most people aren't that diligent and skilled. On the two translators thing, one was outsourcing (the one that translates the latter ones) so lack of coordination is a given. I've once complained about the translation quality drop (especially consistency) because of it about 5-10 pages ago.

Yup, no wonder I remembered something about "novels being painful to read because of the quality of translations". Nice banter.

Well, I'd rather have a hard time with bad grammar than have nothing to read at all. Seeing as how 'Murica' licenses some stuff that never ever ever ever gets translated because some people just don't have the balls to read anything beyond manga (because we likes being in kindergarten, with the many pictures and without all that horrible, confusing, repulsive text to read), I'm still happy to read not all that good quality LNs, compared to reading nothing. Of course, I wouldn't go as far as making stereotypes, but really, I think we all know why 1. Hidan no Aria LN-s got cancelled on BT, and 2. we won't ever read them in a proper translation, meaning english language, paperback format, even if I'd seriously buy them and have them exported all the way to mid-eastern Europe. Yeah, sowwies western japfan comrades of the New World, but that's the fault of your usual intolerance of something as time and spirit consuming as Light Novel material. I really don't like that about you.

As for Campione!, hats off and flying for zzhk. I want the next volume! Things were just getting interesting!

Also, bearing in mind that Mondaiji is also a LN series, I'm not too happy about it. It always makes it harder to at least know the happenings with LN-s, since it's so much easier to do scanlations than LN translations. Even though I must grin and bear it with Mondaiji (and a lot of other works) because of it not being translated at the rate I'd like it to be, I must be thankful for BT that they at least try to "satisfy consumer needs". It's at least something to look forward to while waiting for the next anime seasons of the many LN series out now (some of which will never come to be, like the aforementioned Campione!. When it was confirmed not to have a second season, or any other adaptation at all, I almost broke down with tears, really.)

Feng Lengshun · 2014-01-24, 11:49

Campione! was... well, translation was really good, but it didn't really satisfy me with my storytelling standard. And the latest character development for Godou actually left me baffled... for this one, I'd like to see Izayoi humanized more. He's too much of a Stu and that's coming from me who had been writing fanfic using him as the main character (which will need a total redesign due to how broken he is). And I would really appreciate it if it wasn't something cheesy/cliched/typical like "He cares a lot for his friend," because that has been used a lot of times. For characters like him, I want him to fall from his own undoing and rises again with a new resolution and self-awareness (kind of like Brolli Diamondback in Diamond in the Rough--he is the examplary humanized former Stu).

RpR1337 · 2014-01-24, 12:19

Beg to differ. I find the overly haughty and narcissistic sexist asshole concept quite good. Actually, being such a fine piece of human garbage and still (apparently) having the #1 goddess fall for you (yup, the Wabbit) is hilarious. The concept itself makes me happy with the whole series. He is a problem child after all (do not forget that the whole concept of the story is problem children).

Godou's latest chardev was something happy, as far as I'm concerned. We know he's that kind of guy. No matter if it's Youth, Insane Rush or whatever external pushes, he himself (and the girls) state that it's not like he loses control or cool, nor it is like being possessed or having his disposition changed. It's simply a case of superficial inner limiters being temporarily lifted. OFC, it was obvious from the start, since it has been stated many times, that the "lady-killer genius genes" were properly beaten into him by his grandfather during their travels. That concludes that he in fact is a womanizer (albeit with a soft spot for the girls, and feelings probably way beyond being attracted to the four of them physically). If you ask me, it was damn high time he accepted it, because for the entirety of the novel up till' now, always rambling about his common sense when he was barely able to avoid getting the four female leads all pregnant in a fortnight, was pretentious bullshit to begin with. He knows he's just that kind of guy, the girls knew way before him and still accept him, so actually there was no point in playing out Godou's character to be a bambling fool who pretends not knowing anything about the female heart, when in fact he had total control all along, but pushed it down due to his own embarrassment (and the harrassment from his sister, among other facts). Conversely, it didn't make his character likeable, but an annoying prick to me. So, imho it's a welcome change. That's why I'm eagerly awaiting the next volume. Because if it goes back to how it was, I'm seriously going to trashcan the whole series.

Back to Izayoi, I think his character setting is simply perfect. An absolutely narcissistic asshole, who solves each and every problem through the use of force, but has the disposition of a genius tactician and intellectual mastermind, which means he's simply OP. Why does every character have to go through character progression? I doubt he needs it. A few new skills or tricks here and there (just to keep things interesting), maybe a new concept of how to handle things (like trying to trap his enemies, or relying on a partner for once, or something like that), but his character shouldn't change, since it's both quite amusing and well-shaped for the time being.
Anyways, I for one, refuse the "super-strong protagonist who then proves to be super weak, but in fact makes a comeback and proves he's super strong after all". Thanks, I've seen enough Bleach while watching Bleach.

Feng Lengshun · 2014-01-24, 21:33

And that's exactly why. His character is way too perfect. His function in the story is pretty much just "To be cool" and "To solve the plot". As an Escapist Character, it's okay, they are for being cool, however they aren't meant to be used for too long without humanizing them. Mainly, because it's hard to sympathize with them and because they have a very one-note personality instead of rich and human-like one. The reason why every character needs to go through development because it shows them maturing and progressing as a person. Without that, they might as well be cardboard cutout or plot devices. And no, Bleach's development doesn't count, they never really developed the characters' characters/personality. But I do have to say that making the MC keeps on winning or losing makes for a poor and predictable story.

On Godou, it was too sudden. There was no transitional scene/monologue/anything that it feels like it came out of nowhere. Also, while I do want him to embrace his other side, I don't want it to be done like that. I would compare it to Kirei's character development in Fate/zero or Homura's in Rebellion Movie. In my opinion, Godou had been in the right track in resisting his desires, it's just that he needs to accepts his true self while still acknowledging that his resistance is also a part of himself that was not wrong. Well, maybe I've been reading a little too much Persona and Fate fics lately... but I still don't like how it was presented/executed. It's welcomed, but it could have been better.

Oh, and I'll just say it now: I'm picky when it comes to characters. Their interactions, dynamics, developments... this is the department that I value the most when evaluating a story as even without an overarching story, it could be still enjoyable if the characters was good (like in Azumanga Daioh). And if you're wondering what my standards are... try my sig's link.

RpR1337 · 2014-01-25, 05:17

Hm. Can't argue with that somewhere.
Actually, on the topic of Godou, it's perfectly understandable that it was sudden, because if you remember the happenings of the novel "The eighth Godslayer", when they were going downstream in the boat with Ena and Erica, Godou simply snapped. That is all. Reaching the limit and bursting is always sudden. Anyway, he was at the end of his rope for quite a while.

What I'm picky about is the logic behind story development. F.e. there was that one anime named Kashimashi, where the protagonist guy turned into a girl. At the end, (s)he became a couple with the girl she was in love with while he was a guy, and because the girl didn't really care about her gender. Then, in the OVA after the last episode (usually referred to as 'the extra episode') they were somehow "undone" as a couple, and the protagonist became a couple with the childhood friend instead (and during some ridiculous Santa Clause alien event at that). I was like What. The. Fuck.
So yeah, characters are important too. As far as Izayoi goes, I think (and this is purely personal preference) that his OP dynamics are both a good showdriver and a source for humour, so I don't mind him not changing. Nevertheless, it's important to advance the story with some logic, and arguably, the logic behind the story being character development is simply too one-sided. At least that's what I think.

Sylux · 2014-01-25, 09:52

Spoiler for Leticia:

How strong would you say is Leticia? Would she stand a chance against someone of Algols caliber or the water snake god(?) Izayoi defeated (i believe volume 1).

Alyxis · 2014-01-25, 10:28

IMO i think she couldn't go head 2 head with the water god but i can't say the same bout Algols...

RpR1337 · 2014-01-25, 12:53

No, actually, she probably can't fight either.

Spoiler for Leticia:

Alyxis · 2014-01-25, 13:49

Speaking of izayoi, when they say he can destroy gifts does it mean that his code: unknown negates the effect of other gifts on him like touma from toaru majitsu no index or does he destroy it rendering it unusable and is it possible for him to have other gifts (won from gift games) without his code: unkown negating it.

RpR1337 · 2014-01-25, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alyxis

Speaking of izayoi, when they say he can destroy gifts does it mean that his code: unknown negates the effect of other gifts on him like touma from toaru majitsu no index or does he destroy it rendering it unusable and is it possible for him to have other gifts (won from gift games) without his code: unkown negating it.

There are two explanations for that. As for the Touma reference, good idea - even the sound effect is similar (episode 1, vs. Shirayuki-hime). It might be that he can cancel other gifts via a power the same density and type - let me make another reference for this one - like how the Billiard Shot Kinji uses in Hidan no Aria works (firing a bullet at a trajectory that will intercept the trajectory of a bullet fired at him, in other words - aiming exactly for the barrel of the other party's gun, thereby using the colliding forces to render the fired bullet useless, and rebound it with his own). Simply - the collision of equal forces.

Another explanation would be that (since his "nature of power" isn't elaborated, only it's strenght) because his power is so immense that he can destroy even entire stars, he simply blasts problems away, so to speak, which means not rendering the gift useless, but completely destroying its power (episode 6, vs. Algol - the "shattering effect" of the beam, also, the comment of Jin Russlol further states this one - he said negate its effects, then corrected himself to "destroyed the gift entirely").

In both cases, it is not negation, but counter. It would, after all be quite the problem, if he had an ability that maid either Wabbit, or his other friends unable to have contests with him, when he loves competing so much. Also, this is not a disadvantage (like Touma's Imagine Breaker), but a clear advantage - do not forget that any kind of power can be countered with greater power. He's probably the way he is because he's went way beyond a normal human being (perhaps something evolutionary?), which would also provide an explanation to his unparalell mental skills and prowess, apart from simply his brute force.

Edit: since both methods are a conscious use, it's probably almost certain that he can use other gifts as well. Though, seriously ... you think he needs any levelups?

Xellos-_^ · 2014-01-25, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by RpR1337

Edit: since both methods are a conscious use, it's probably almost certain that he can use other gifts as well. Though, seriously ... you think he needs any levelups?

he does if he wants to take on 3digits and above

Alyxis · 2014-01-25, 16:39

"his power is so
immense that he can destroy even entire
stars". Umm jst in case i 4got can som1 remind me where nd who exactly said dat he could destroy a star. Cuz d only time i remember something along dat line was during his fight wit pest nd it was "You may have the power to destroy Gifts, but unless you can shatter the stars themselves, you don't stand a chance against a demon lord". Which implies dat his ability to destroy gifts work only on gifts of a certain level.

RpR1337 · 2014-01-25, 17:22

Xellos - as mentioned before about a hundred times, it's obvious that he never even came close to using the full power at his disposal, and also, as stated by Canaria, his power is not yet complete either. It's just that kind of situation (also, he was heavily injured when taking on Azi Dahaka, and he got heavily injured in the fight againtst Royal PITA because the game had exceedingly unfavourable conditions).

Alyxis - right before he came to LG, the guy in the cape (also known as bad excuse for a certain ported Sailor Moon character), don't ask his name though, said it clearly to him. Also, many hints state that Canaria, even though didn't impart in him the full story, was quite generous with different kinds of details (I don't know specifics about this part).

Feng Lengshun · 2014-01-25, 19:01

Baron Le Croix - Baron of the Cross was the guy's name. Ixayoi could use powerup, but he don't need any other power. TBH, Izayoi's power is one of the most boring power I've seen in fiction and he is nowhere near as awesome as Jotaro Kujou for me to excuse it. Of course, this came from a JoJo and Touhou fan where every power are always used in excitingly bizarre creativity so I might just have a little too high standard...

Jirachier · 2014-01-25, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feng Lengshun

And that's exactly why. His character is way too perfect. His function in the story is pretty much just "To be cool" and "To solve the plot". As an Escapist Character, it's okay, they are for being cool, however they aren't meant to be used for too long without humanizing them. Mainly, because it's hard to sympathize with them and because they have a very one-note personality instead of rich and human-like one. The reason why every character needs to go through development because it shows them maturing and progressing as a person. Without that, they might as well be cardboard cutout or plot devices. And no, Bleach's development doesn't count, they never really developed the characters' characters/personality. But I do have to say that making the MC keeps on winning or losing makes for a poor and predictable story.

On Godou, it was too sudden. There was no transitional scene/monologue/anything that it feels like it came out of nowhere. Also, while I do want him to embrace his other side, I don't want it to be done like that. I would compare it to Kirei's character development in Fate/zero or Homura's in Rebellion Movie. In my opinion, Godou had been in the right track in resisting his desires, it's just that he needs to accepts his true self while still acknowledging that his resistance is also a part of himself that was not wrong. Well, maybe I've been reading a little too much Persona and Fate fics lately... but I still don't like how it was presented/executed. It's welcomed, but it could have been better.

Oh, and I'll just say it now: I'm picky when it comes to characters. Their interactions, dynamics, developments... this is the department that I value the most when evaluating a story as even without an overarching story, it could be still enjoyable if the characters was good (like in Azumanga Daioh). And if you're wondering what my standards are... try my sig's link.

I honestly don't understand why so many people aren't happy about characters similar to Izayoi, and ask for "humanization", just because a character has powerful abilities does not make him less of a human, he is not omnipotent and all-knowing, and he isn't meant to be pitied or cheered upon like an underdog.
Out of all actions series out there, you'll find that probably 90% of them have a character that starts out weak/average, then gets stronger little by little, but when someone makes a protagonist like Izayoi or even Tatsuya from Mahouka, readers ask for them to be weaker when the entire point behind their creation is that they are strong, it does not make them less human, we should just enjoy seeing them be badasses, it's a different kind of character, does every character really needs to be a weak hotblooded shounen who screams power of feelings/friendship while getting a power up to beat the big bad wolf ?

Yami no Ou · 2014-01-25, 20:12

^OP Main characters are actually great unlike those lame protagonists taht you get tired of cause you know that even if they are beaten badly they would suddenly powerup and kick some ass but OP protagonists are always badasses

Feng Lengshun · 2014-01-25, 20:23

You guys has mistaken me for one thing: I don't care about the powers. This seems to be a mistake that many writing amateurs have made, if the PM I got is one thing. Simply put: what I care is his characterization and true characters. Characterization wise, he's fine. True characters though... they could only manifest when a character is under pressure. Izayoi is just too hypercompetent, hence why they've made his friend as his weakness. But what about flaws in characterization? Just so you know, even the greatest saint of saints got people hating him and sometimes got bitten in the ass by his kindness or betrayed. How about this guy? Has he ever got beaten in the ass because of the way he acts, like you know, a human?

I think you should understand what I meant by reading my sig's link or watching Diamond in the Rough by Spaztique. Simply put: A character is not his name, his power, his backstory, or his costume. He is whay he is beneath them. Take all of them from the character and ask "Who is he?" and tell me how deep the answer you get. A good and human-like character would have a deep answer. Go on ahead: who is Sakamaki Izayoi?

Izayoi as a character just has so many flaws to exploit as an ammunition for making a good story. The fact that it was never used was the reason why I call him a Stu. With his character, the logical result would be him getting hated by, well, everyone. Go ahead and act like he do in real world, chances are everyone will hate you. He's not just a problem child, he's a bully. Yet no one so far has outright hated him nor does he succumb to his flaws and become self-aware. Hence why i call him a Stu. The current arc might change it, but who knows? This novel is pretty much shounen manga slash fanfiction in LN form after all.

Also, weakness does not make a character humane. That's one of the most amateur mistake a writer could ever make. My thought about his power was in thr previous post but it's never about the power. A power does not make a character, what he does with it does, however. He can have OP powers but I expect him to succumb to his flaws as a person. He has nowhere near enough strength of character to handle it, just like many rich and powerful people who falls because they let their powers lead them to their own downfalls.

Heck, even THE Original Overpowered Hero Gilgamesh had a flaw that he succumbs to too and had character developments too. This is THE muthafucking Oldest Literary you know? Why is Izayoi from the Modern Literary lose to him The Oldest Hero Story? I'd expect people of the present to know more storytelling technique than those in the past... but then again, pretty much everything Robert McKee teaches are just old stuffs that people has forgotten (even he admits it) and he has won awards somehow...

An example of a balanced hero is Issei Hyoudou: He has a weakness/flaw as a character that he succumbs to (two of them that eventually leads to two deaths) and a backstory that actually functions in the main story. His density was not because of some stupid author's decision and he actually moves on from it somewhat. His power is already hax from the very beginning and all he needs to do is just to know how to use it better. His Oppai powers leads to variety in his combat methods and his very adaptive Boosted Gear leads to a relatively varied battle methods, in addition to his occasional bouts of cunning (still not JoJo level, but well above many LNs). Does any of this makes him a bad character? No. Actually, his flaws and his unique flavor has lead to him becoming the favorite LN MC of The Mechanics of In Flight, aka, the den of "Rabid Haters". Izayoi though? Well, even this person who has written a (rather sucky) fanfic of him calls him a Stu.

Jirachier · 2014-01-25, 21:05

I'm sorry but you just said you don't care about his powers/abilities and at the same time you want him to be under pressure, that is exactly the same thing.
And who said no one hates him ? At least a few of the characters he humiliated so far or defeated do, as for his friends, if you remember initially they didn't really think highly of him but after a while they started to comprehend what he is all about, that he cares about them and that he just doesn't like to show it directly, so they warmed up to him, many people IRL are like that.
And as for under pressure, this isn't a one volume story, we got to see him easily overwhelming anyone and everyone in the beginning, but as the story progresses he's meting stronger opponent that belong to lower digits, he's currently fighting someone he cannot hope to defeat, how can you not call that being under pressure ? Just because he likes to keep a calm facade at all time doesn't mean he's not being pressured.

And what exactly do you mean by having human flaws, can you give me a few detailed examples ?

Mars Mode · 2014-01-25, 21:07

If I remember right, since when was Izayoi a bully?

2014-01-24, 09:24	Link #1041
Feng Lengshun Old Wine Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: In my Body	Campione! was actually very well-above average in terms of speed on quality. Most people aren't that diligent and skilled. On the two translators thing, one was outsourcing (the one that translates the latter ones) so lack of coordination is a given. I've once complained about the translation quality drop (especially consistency) because of it about 5-10 pages ago. __________________ *A Really* Extensive Guide on Making a Story, OCs, and Characterizations.**

2014-01-24, 11:49	Link #1043
Feng Lengshun Old Wine Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: In my Body	Campione! was... well, translation was really good, but it didn't really satisfy me with my storytelling standard. And the latest character development for Godou actually left me baffled... for this one, I'd like to see Izayoi humanized more. He's too much of a Stu and that's coming from me who had been writing fanfic using him as the main character (which will need a total redesign due to how broken he is). And I would really appreciate it if it wasn't something cheesy/cliched/typical like "He cares a lot for his friend," because that has been used a lot of times. For characters like him, I want him to fall from his own undoing and rises again with a new resolution and self-awareness (kind of like Brolli Diamondback in Diamond in the Rough--he is the examplary humanized former Stu). __________________ *A Really* Extensive Guide on Making a Story, OCs, and Characterizations.**

2014-01-24, 21:33	Link #1045
Feng Lengshun Old Wine Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: In my Body	And that's exactly why. His character is way too perfect. His function in the story is pretty much just "To be cool" and "To solve the plot". As an Escapist Character, it's okay, they are for being cool, however they aren't meant to be used for too long without humanizing them. Mainly, because it's hard to sympathize with them and because they have a very one-note personality instead of rich and human-like one. The reason why every character needs to go through development because it shows them maturing and progressing as a person. Without that, they might as well be cardboard cutout or plot devices. And no, Bleach's development doesn't count, they never really developed the characters' characters/personality. But I do have to say that making the MC keeps on winning or losing makes for a poor and predictable story. On Godou, it was too sudden. There was no transitional scene/monologue/anything that it feels like it came out of nowhere. Also, while I do want him to embrace his other side, I don't want it to be done like that. I would compare it to Kirei's character development in Fate/zero or Homura's in Rebellion Movie. In my opinion, Godou had been in the right track in resisting his desires, it's just that he needs to accepts his true self while still acknowledging that his resistance is also a part of himself that was not wrong. Well, maybe I've been reading a little too much Persona and Fate fics lately... but I still don't like how it was presented/executed. It's welcomed, but it could have been better. Oh, and I'll just say it now: I'm picky when it comes to characters. Their interactions, dynamics, developments... this is the department that I value the most when evaluating a story as even without an overarching story, it could be still enjoyable if the characters was good (like in Azumanga Daioh). And if you're wondering what my standards are... try my sig's link. __________________ *A Really* Extensive Guide on Making a Story, OCs, and Characterizations.**

2014-01-25, 09:52	Link #1047
Sylux Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013	Spoiler for Leticia: "Shadow?" Naturally Ratten's line of sight would fall on Leticia's shadow. She saw that Leticia's shadow gradually changed into numerous blades. The blades that constantly swirled around didn't look like a shadow, but more like— "That shadow............is it [ Jaw ] ? No Wait! Vampires aren't suppose to have shadows in the first place....." "Exactly. In the past I have acquired the position of [Dragon Knight] after reaching the system tree, and this [Shadow] , came from the belief of the Dragon." The calmness of Ratten suddenly disappeared, just when she was thinking whether she had heard it wrongly, Leticia had already taken the chance to let the shadow expand and change its appearance. The gentle expression Leticia had instantly transformed into a cheeky yet grim look. "This is retaliation from before! Rat manipulator! You will accept the punishment for hurting my comrades! " Countless blades of shadow turned into a huge dragon jaw, sweeping the area in accordance to planar diffusion.[2] The three Stroms that were bitten by the Dragon jaw immediately fell down. In a nick of time, Ratten jumped upwards to avoid the attack, but when she saw the scene below her, she felt extremely consternated. "Dragon Knight with a gift containing countless of blades........? Unless you are the vampire with divinity! Draculea Maou!" "Although this title is quite nostalgic, but I discarded that name long ago. The Draculea Maou of the vampires have long been overthrown, centuries after the [Fantasy Magic Book Group] was destroyed." Being scared until her face had turned pale, Ratten immediately ran off the roof, with Leticia chasing her. How strong would you say is Leticia? Would she stand a chance against someone of Algols caliber or the water snake god(?) Izayoi defeated (i believe volume 1). Last edited by Sylux; 2014-01-25 at 10:27.

2014-01-25, 10:28	Link #1048
Alyxis Mad Hatter Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Wonderland	IMO i think she couldn't go head 2 head with the water god but i can't say the same bout Algols... Last edited by Alyxis; 2014-01-25 at 12:08. Reason: typo error

2014-01-24, 12:19	Link #1044
RpR1337 fun^10*int^40=Ir2 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Hungary	Beg to differ. I find the overly haughty and narcissistic sexist asshole concept quite good. Actually, being such a fine piece of human garbage and still (apparently) having the #1 goddess fall for you (yup, the Wabbit) is hilarious. The concept itself makes me happy with the whole series. He is a problem child after all (do not forget that the whole concept of the story is problem children). Godou's latest chardev was something happy, as far as I'm concerned. We know he's that kind of guy. No matter if it's Youth, Insane Rush or whatever external pushes, he himself (and the girls) state that it's not like he loses control or cool, nor it is like being possessed or having his disposition changed. It's simply a case of superficial inner limiters being temporarily lifted. OFC, it was obvious from the start, since it has been stated many times, that the "lady-killer genius genes" were properly beaten into him by his grandfather during their travels. That concludes that he in fact is a womanizer (albeit with a soft spot for the girls, and feelings probably way beyond being attracted to the four of them physically). If you ask me, it was damn high time he accepted it, because for the entirety of the novel up till' now, always rambling about his common sense when he was barely able to avoid getting the four female leads all pregnant in a fortnight, was pretentious bullshit to begin with. He knows he's just that kind of guy, the girls knew way before him and still accept him, so actually there was no point in playing out Godou's character to be a bambling fool who pretends not knowing anything about the female heart, when in fact he had total control all along, but pushed it down due to his own embarrassment (and the harrassment from his sister, among other facts). Conversely, it didn't make his character likeable, but an annoying prick to me. So, imho it's a welcome change. That's why I'm eagerly awaiting the next volume. Because if it goes back to how it was, I'm seriously going to trashcan the whole series. Back to Izayoi, I think his character setting is simply perfect. An absolutely narcissistic asshole, who solves each and every problem through the use of force, but has the disposition of a genius tactician and intellectual mastermind, which means he's simply OP. Why does every character have to go through character progression? I doubt he needs it. A few new skills or tricks here and there (just to keep things interesting), maybe a new concept of how to handle things (like trying to trap his enemies, or relying on a partner for once, or something like that), but his character shouldn't change, since it's both quite amusing and well-shaped for the time being. Anyways, I for one, refuse the "super-strong protagonist who then proves to be super weak, but in fact makes a comeback and proves he's super strong after all". Thanks, I've seen enough Bleach while watching Bleach.

2014-01-25, 05:17	Link #1046
RpR1337 fun^10*int^40=Ir2 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Hungary	Hm. Can't argue with that somewhere. Actually, on the topic of Godou, it's perfectly understandable that it was sudden, because if you remember the happenings of the novel "The eighth Godslayer", when they were going downstream in the boat with Ena and Erica, Godou simply snapped. That is all. Reaching the limit and bursting is always sudden. Anyway, he was at the end of his rope for quite a while. What I'm picky about is the logic behind story development. F.e. there was that one anime named Kashimashi, where the protagonist guy turned into a girl. At the end, (s)he became a couple with the girl she was in love with while he was a guy, and because the girl didn't really care about her gender. Then, in the OVA after the last episode (usually referred to as 'the extra episode') they were somehow "undone" as a couple, and the protagonist became a couple with the childhood friend instead (and during some ridiculous Santa Clause alien event at that). I was like What. The. Fuck. So yeah, characters are important too. As far as Izayoi goes, I think (and this is purely personal preference) that his OP dynamics are both a good showdriver and a source for humour, so I don't mind him not changing. Nevertheless, it's important to advance the story with some logic, and arguably, the logic behind the story being character development is simply too one-sided. At least that's what I think.

2014-01-25, 12:53	Link #1049
RpR1337 fun^10*int^40=Ir2 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Hungary	No, actually, she probably can't fight either. Spoiler for Leticia: Since when she was the aforementioned "Draculea Maou" (which later turned out to be the sole survivor who killed all her comrades, and gained even more power through a certain chain of events), but as stated, sold all of her gifts and lost her divinity, she's not on the level of the deities and devil kings anymore. Also, don't forget that beating down a few Storms with her remaining "skills" (namely [Lord of Vampires] ) is not that much of a feat, since (also) as stated, both Ratten, Sturm and Weser are your ordinary, run-of-the-mill demons (Weser gained divinity later though, which made him put up a better fight againtst Izayoi).

2014-01-25, 13:49	Link #1050
Alyxis Mad Hatter Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Wonderland	Speaking of izayoi, when they say he can destroy gifts does it mean that his code: unknown negates the effect of other gifts on him like touma from toaru majitsu no index or does he destroy it rendering it unusable and is it possible for him to have other gifts (won from gift games) without his code: unkown negating it.

2014-01-25, 16:39	Link #1053
Alyxis Mad Hatter Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Wonderland	"his power is so immense that he can destroy even entire stars". Umm jst in case i 4got can som1 remind me where nd who exactly said dat he could destroy a star. Cuz d only time i remember something along dat line was during his fight wit pest nd it was "You may have the power to destroy Gifts, but unless you can shatter the stars themselves, you don't stand a chance against a demon lord". Which implies dat his ability to destroy gifts work only on gifts of a certain level.

2014-01-25, 17:22	Link #1054
RpR1337 fun^10*int^40=Ir2 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Hungary	Xellos - as mentioned before about a hundred times, it's obvious that he never even came close to using the full power at his disposal, and also, as stated by Canaria, his power is not yet complete either. It's just that kind of situation (also, he was heavily injured when taking on Azi Dahaka, and he got heavily injured in the fight againtst Royal PITA because the game had exceedingly unfavourable conditions). Alyxis - right before he came to LG, the guy in the cape (also known as bad excuse for a certain ported Sailor Moon character), don't ask his name though, said it clearly to him. Also, many hints state that Canaria, even though didn't impart in him the full story, was quite generous with different kinds of details (I don't know specifics about this part).

2014-01-25, 19:01	Link #1055
Feng Lengshun Old Wine Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: In my Body	Baron Le Croix - Baron of the Cross was the guy's name. Ixayoi could use powerup, but he don't need any other power. TBH, Izayoi's power is one of the most boring power I've seen in fiction and he is nowhere near as awesome as Jotaro Kujou for me to excuse it. Of course, this came from a JoJo and Touhou fan where every power are always used in excitingly bizarre creativity so I might just have a little too high standard... __________________ *A Really* Extensive Guide on Making a Story, OCs, and Characterizations.**

2014-01-25, 20:12	Link #1057
Yami no Ou まおう Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: At the Edge of the World	^OP Main characters are actually great unlike those lame protagonists taht you get tired of cause you know that even if they are beaten badly they would suddenly powerup and kick some ass but OP protagonists are always badasses __________________

2014-01-25, 20:23	Link #1058
Feng Lengshun Old Wine Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: In my Body	You guys has mistaken me for one thing: I don't care about the powers. This seems to be a mistake that many writing amateurs have made, if the PM I got is one thing. Simply put: what I care is his characterization and true characters. Characterization wise, he's fine. True characters though... they could only manifest when a character is under pressure. Izayoi is just too hypercompetent, hence why they've made his friend as his weakness. But what about flaws in characterization? Just so you know, even the greatest saint of saints got people hating him and sometimes got bitten in the ass by his kindness or betrayed. How about this guy? Has he ever got beaten in the ass because of the way he acts, like you know, a human? I think you should understand what I meant by reading my sig's link or watching Diamond in the Rough by Spaztique. Simply put: A character is not his name, his power, his backstory, or his costume. He is whay he is beneath them. Take all of them from the character and ask "Who is he?" and tell me how deep the answer you get. A good and human-like character would have a deep answer. Go on ahead: who is Sakamaki Izayoi? Izayoi as a character just has so many flaws to exploit as an ammunition for making a good story. The fact that it was never used was the reason why I call him a Stu. With his character, the logical result would be him getting hated by, well, everyone. Go ahead and act like he do in real world, chances are everyone will hate you. He's not just a problem child, he's a bully. Yet no one so far has outright hated him nor does he succumb to his flaws and become self-aware. Hence why i call him a Stu. The current arc might change it, but who knows? This novel is pretty much shounen manga slash fanfiction in LN form after all. Also, weakness does not make a character humane. That's one of the most amateur mistake a writer could ever make. My thought about his power was in thr previous post but it's never about the power. A power does not make a character, what he does with it does, however. He can have OP powers but I expect him to succumb to his flaws as a person. He has nowhere near enough strength of character to handle it, just like many rich and powerful people who falls because they let their powers lead them to their own downfalls. Heck, even THE Original Overpowered Hero Gilgamesh had a flaw that he succumbs to too and had character developments too. This is THE muthafucking Oldest Literary you know? Why is Izayoi from the Modern Literary lose to him The Oldest Hero Story? I'd expect people of the present to know more storytelling technique than those in the past... but then again, pretty much everything Robert McKee teaches are just old stuffs that people has forgotten (even he admits it) and he has won awards somehow... An example of a balanced hero is Issei Hyoudou: He has a weakness/flaw as a character that he succumbs to (two of them that eventually leads to two deaths) and a backstory that actually functions in the main story. His density was not because of some stupid author's decision and he actually moves on from it somewhat. His power is already hax from the very beginning and all he needs to do is just to know how to use it better. His Oppai powers leads to variety in his combat methods and his very adaptive Boosted Gear leads to a relatively varied battle methods, in addition to his occasional bouts of cunning (still not JoJo level, but well above many LNs). Does any of this makes him a bad character? No. Actually, his flaws and his unique flavor has lead to him becoming the favorite LN MC of The Mechanics of In Flight, aka, the den of "Rabid Haters". Izayoi though? Well, even this person who has written a (rather sucky) fanfic of him calls him a Stu. __________________ *A Really* Extensive Guide on Making a Story, OCs, and Characterizations.** Last edited by Feng Lengshun; 2014-01-25 at 20:56.

2014-01-25, 21:05	Link #1059
Jirachier Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012	I'm sorry but you just said you don't care about his powers/abilities and at the same time you want him to be under pressure, that is exactly the same thing. And who said no one hates him ? At least a few of the characters he humiliated so far or defeated do, as for his friends, if you remember initially they didn't really think highly of him but after a while they started to comprehend what he is all about, that he cares about them and that he just doesn't like to show it directly, so they warmed up to him, many people IRL are like that. And as for under pressure, this isn't a one volume story, we got to see him easily overwhelming anyone and everyone in the beginning, but as the story progresses he's meting stronger opponent that belong to lower digits, he's currently fighting someone he cannot hope to defeat, how can you not call that being under pressure ? Just because he likes to keep a calm facade at all time doesn't mean he's not being pressured. And what exactly do you mean by having human flaws, can you give me a few detailed examples ?

2014-01-25, 21:07	Link #1060
Mars Mode Senior Member Join Date: May 2011	If I remember right, since when was Izayoi a bully?