AnimeSuki Forums

tsunade666 · 2010-01-09, 20:42

you even dig that up chaos? WoW..... I was to amaze at looking in c77 doujin and cosplayers I don't have much time to post a long one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by babohtea

His powers are are as ridiculous as this: "I have the power to control math, now watch me multiply your blood pressure by 0".

Well his a ridiculous guy and take this his current computing capabilities are half of what he is before. Before the damage in his brains. Meaning his computing abilities before damage surpass those nearly 10 000 brains.

And anything you throw to him is useless as long as its within the range of computing skills of the misaka network.

He still got weakness. take vent for example and the angels and artificial one. And also I think the saint has a way to deal with him.

If you ask me the rank 1 and 2 are already saint class. With "awakened mode" their a bit stronger than your common saint.

Given that accelerator haven't deal yet with the magician if he suddenly encounter a strong one and got KO'ed one hit kill then his dead. Without knowing what will hit him or hit him he can't control it.

Miraluka · 2010-01-09, 21:13

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...hapter7#Part_4

New chapters translated, Touma meets Vent of the Front.

babohtea · 2010-01-09, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by LastResolve

totally if you think that his skin is in direct touch with the flow of the atmosfaire and the atmosfaire is in direct touch with every possible thing he could control the vectors of anything gravity,rotation of the earth, just anything

I don't think you fully grasp what it means to control "vectors". A vector can be used to represent the mass of a rock. If he can "alter" that vector then he could change the size of anything he touches. If he sets a vector to represent the density of the matter he is touching, he could make a black hole etc.

tsunade666 · 2010-01-09, 23:11

No I don't think accelerator can alter the size of the rock.

"one who carries" A vector is what is needed to "carry" the point A to the point B;

The vector that accelerator can control is just as the vector say. magnitude and direction but the thing is his almighty control comes on the flow or which direction he will make it go.

His power doesn't allow to change the magnitude of the matter just the control of it as it. He can break it apart and assemble it but altering its composition alone. Is not in his jurisdiction. Its more like alchemy if you ask me.

The black hole thing is possible due to it works almost the same when he summons the plasma. He change the flow of the wind to a certain point. Like a black hole that sucks anything to a certain point.

"just total control on where he wants it to go"

babohtea · 2010-01-09, 23:17

Oh, so its "kinetic energy" control? I thought he controlled energy conversions such as heat etc.? I guess heat is just quantum kinetic energy, but this is stretching it. Can anyone else confirm that its only kinetic vectors that he can control?

Anyhow, if he just controls "vectors" in general that would give him infinite possibilities. Sure, a vector in physics usually means magnitude and direction, but this can mean many things. It can mean velocity, acceleration or force, just to name a few. It can get even more ridiculous that that.

For example, we have vectors in the imaginary plane allowing us to calculate the imaginary roots of numbers. Now, if Accelerator wanted to use vectors to represent changes in mass vs volume, he could easily make the rock as big as he wanted to by altering the "mass/volume vector".

Chaos2Frozen · 2010-01-09, 23:23

Kinetic, Heat, Electricity, Sound, Radiation, Light- Pretty much anything that has a direction.

The key word is direction.

tsunade666 · 2010-01-09, 23:24

no he can't control conversions of heat just where the heat will go. Accumulate it in certain point to increase its temperature or disperse it.

Acceleration just what his given title is but he can't increase its speed. I read it here before but the thing is he can't increase its speed BUT he can force all its direction into a single one making it stronger and faster than before but he cannot alter one vector value.

NO ALTERING just pure control of directions. Giving him altering power over its mass will be to much. How can touma even win against him in his prime days if he can just change the mass.

babohtea · 2010-01-09, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Kinetic, Heat, Electricity, Sound, Radiation, Light- Pretty much anything that has a direction.

The key word is direction.

If we're talking about how difficult it is to calculate things, Electricity and Heat are almost impossible to predict in their trajectories. By the way, if Accelerator can only control the things that he can touch, then he shouldn't be able to control Heat or Electricity.

Electricity - functions on the basis that charged particles want to be neutral. As a result, negative particles want to go to a highly charged area. If Accelerator pushes the direction of the particles in one direction, as soon as its out of his control it will immediately turn around. Being able to control the direction of electricity requires being able to control the charge of his body - he has to make his body so negatively charged that the electrons would literally jump off his body onto his target. He can probably negate electricity, but he certainly can't shoot it out.

Heat - Heat transfer is from particle to particle. As soon as Accelerator transfers it to the nearest atom heat is now out of his control. Again, maybe he can negate heat attacks but he certainly can't shoot it out.

Kinetic, Sound, Light and Radiation seem pretty reliable to me though. After all, sound is directly related to kinetic energy and light/radiation can be linked to kinetic energy when they are acting as particles (iffy, but whatever. Light's weird anyways).

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Acceleration just what his given title is but he can't increase its speed. I read it here before but the thing is he can't increase its speed BUT he can force all its direction into a single one making it stronger and faster than before but he cannot alter one vector value.

Maybe he can combine vertical and horizontal velocity, but he certainly can't give a stationary object movement just by redirecting existing forces (because the net force is 0, changing the direction of a 0 magnitude velocity vector won't make it move). Turning a stationary can into a flying object requires adding an imbalanced force. By the way, don't even suggest that Accelerator can redirect opposite forces to face the same direction. Equal and opposite reactions are a property of matter: no force can exist without a partner.

He must be able to increase speed, otherwise the feats he's been accomplishing so far can't be possible. My guess is that his ability to create his own force is just limited by his calculation abilities?

Assuming this is right I'm guessing he can only create simple kinetic vectors, because the other vectors would take too long to calculate? It's a lot simpler to reflect heat than to actually think it up; heat is really complicated. What do you think?

tsunade666 · 2010-01-09, 23:42

he can't shoot it out. Just like when he dispersed railgun. Mikoto hit him with railgun but it didn't bounce instead it dispersed into nothing.

As for heat.... I'm not sure but if its fire with a solid medium where it burns then he can control its direction.

His ability just let him change its direction by contact after it. The initial force and the additional or accumulate force will be the initial or rather its speed and force of the matter he just control.

babohtea · 2010-01-10, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

he can't shoot it out. Just like when he dispersed railgun. Mikoto hit him with railgun but it didn't bounce instead it dispersed into nothing.

As for heat.... I'm not sure but if its fire with a solid medium where it burns then he can control its direction.

His ability just let him change its direction by contact after it. The initial force and the additional or accumulate force will be the initial or rather its speed and force of the matter he just control.

Railgun can be reflected. It's a literal gun with a tangible bullet.

In the case of heat, he can't really control heat by itself. If there's a fire burning however, that's a different story. He could use wind to blow fire. However, he can't really transfer the heat of the earth's core into his enemies' feet, even if he was directly touching the lava. He might be able to splatter some lava by accelerating it, but he can't literally use heat.

I *guess* he can use wind to help launch stationary objects. Again, if the wind that day is really slow though he can't do anything with it unless we know he can create his own basic forces somehow.

tsunade666 · 2010-01-10, 00:15

The railgun that is but the railgun mikoto using having a token bullet can only run for 50 meters max.After it the power acting on the token will be to much and the token will disintegrate.

If the initial impact is been thwarted do you think that tiny token can take on much damage?

BlueDo · 2010-01-10, 00:31

I guess you can say that the part where he reflected Imouto's attack is a screw-up.
And he never controlled the flow of heat. He's just immune from it.

As for the other part:
Realize, though, that Accelerator easily breaks the conservation of momentum.
He can look at a still object and say "Oh, that's composed of two opposing momentums. I'll just reflect one of them so it goes twice as fast."
As for when he kicked the pebble so fast, or when he threw that steel girder so easily, he probably doubled his forces constantly, and could've applied gravity while in contact.
You can accept it when you know that he could've done much more by controlling math.

babohtea · 2010-01-10, 00:42

Yeah but the earth is spinning at over 800,000 kilometers per hour through the universe (factoring in the sun's orbit as well as the earth's orbit as well as rotation). If Accelerator takes a chunk of that with his ability to mess up the conservation of momentum its pretty much good game.

I think he must be able to create his own forces somehow, or maybe he physically pushes it and then follows up with wind power.

Breaking the conservation of momentum wouldn't work because if he takes the two opposite forces and puts them in the same direction, another opposite reaction will just neutralize it immediately.

tsunade666 · 2010-01-10, 01:18

How can he mess up the revolution and rotation of the earth itself if he can't touch it directly?

How does the earth revolve the sun to begin with? isn't it due to the magnetic force or something that acts with earth revolving in its own orbit?

Too bad his ability doesn't make him create his own force but he can use his own power to do so. Like when he fought touma or rather when he usually uses the gound as an attack ability. he kicks it and every thing that vibrates he can change its force with the help also of gravitiy acting polar + the initial fall ..... to much explanation.

back in looking at c77.

Ice Block · 2010-01-10, 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by babohtea

*snips*

Wrong. Vectors contain direction and magnitude. Quoting from wikipedia:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Euclidean vector, a geometric entity endowed with both length and direction; an element of a Euclidean vector space. In physics, euclidean vectors are used to represent physical quantities which have both magnitude and direction, such as force, in contrast to scalar quantities, which have no direction.

Does mass have direction? Does pH have direction? Does density have direction? No, right?

In order to analyze an ability, you have to put yourself in the user's shoes. How does he see the world? How does he apply and input his calculations to physical objects? Well... His basic power is redirection. His AIM field only extends a few units of length from his skin. This power is also called vector manipulation because he can change the magnitude and direction of any particle within his AIM field. To illustrate, here are a few theoretical applications of his ability:

Basic
Flight -> g=0, direction and velocity is free to be modified. Particles are automatically reflected off (they don't even touch his skin), eliminating friction at high speeds. Oxygen intake is maintained through selective alteration of the speed of incoming air to allow normal respiration. High G forces are not experienced due to setting g=0.

Ballistic projectiles -> simple modification of projectile's speed and direction

Passive redirection -> simple firewall. Selectively reflects foreign malicious forces/substances unless manually overridden.

Super strength -> modification of the magnitude of the force applied by basic physical movements/actions.

Heating -> vibration of particles causing heating via friction.

Freezing -> opposite of the above

Advanced (usually involves microscopic particles)
Wind manipulation -> same as ballistic projectiles, except on a smaller level. Requires more calculating power and can be easily countered since only the molecules' vectors touching his AIM field can be modified. Specific vibration patterns must be preserved.

Sound Jamming -> molecular vibrations near ear area are modified as to filter out chosen frequencies.

Invisibility -> light bending, similar to active camouflage. Other light manipulation applications include mirrors (reflection) and lasers (amplification).

Memory alteration -> bioelectricity alteration. Electrons are selectively moved and neurons selectively stimulated. The specifics of this application is still not fully understood since memory storage in biological brains are not yet fully understood (at least, I don't fully understand it yet).

Compound breaking/decomposition -> movements of electrons altered and are thus ejected, freeing nuclei.

Nuclear fission/fusion -> nuclei are torn apart by extracting protons through direction modification. A single proton's acceleration is greatly increased to the extent of negating strong nuclear forces holding together atomic nuclei. For fusion, either the repulsive force is sufficiently redirected until the two nuclei make contact, making strong nuclear forces take over, or two nuclei are accelerated to near-luminal speeds and set to collide with each other.

Basically, he can do anything short of creating something from nothing (locally, as in only within his AIM field). And yes, he can make opposite forces follow one vector direction, though this isn't even needed. All he has to do is set the [kinetic] properties of existing objects, similar to modding a game (he changes one quantity, and the world's physics engine behaves accordingly). That's why most fans call him a cheater.

Chaos2Frozen · 2010-01-10, 07:22

Look people, lets make this very simple- If it has a direction, or if it's something that he can touch, or if it's something that generally can affect him, the moment it comes into contact with his AIM field, anything less complicating than a Nuclear Blast (Not proven, but constantly mentioned) , Accelerator can choose whatever way he wants it to go.

Yes, it's rule breaking, even the characters think so. But that's why he's Number 1, that's why hundreds of people want to study him, and that's why his powers are described as "He who wields a piece of power that equates to god."

babohtea · 2010-01-10, 11:18

I understand what you're saying, but I was just arguing a point. We use vectors in imaginary number calculation. Does an imaginary number have a direction? No, not really. However, if you change the direction of an imaginary number in trig form you change the number itself. I'm not saying that Accelerator's powers go beyond literal direction into the intangible, it was just to demonstrate that "redirecting vectors" is too vague, and his powers seem to go beyond that.

By the way, he can't really heat anything outside his AIM field. Again, heat transfers occur between each and every molecule in a medium. He can only direct heat to a certain point. After that it basically disperses in every direction.

Ugh, I know all the superpowers are supposed to break physics in one or another, but Accelerator is like violating all of Newton's laws of physics. What are we going to do if we find out he can modify quantum particles and they actually affect the "normal world"? Antimatter, control over gravity and time. =(. Oh well, at least his brain needs to keep up with that. I don't think he could possibly be smart enough to understand something in his head that hundreds of thousands of scientists still don't understand today.

Miraluka · 2010-01-10, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

That's like Life Force or something right?

Is the energy within the Earth is like the energy of their life without this the Earth dies, and for some reason Touma's right hand didn't affected it.

walt · 2010-01-10, 13:14

about Harem disscusion
look:

Last Order meets with #10032

Last Order steals #10032's headgear and disappears

#10032 gives pursuit

Touma is lounging in the mini-plaza while Mikoto and Kuroko are handling the mobile phone service

#10032 meets with Touma

Obviously - "it's the plan" - so #10032 could'nt hide any feeling from root of MisakaNet(Last Order)

Chaos2Frozen · 2010-01-10, 19:22

The first chapter of Volume 9 was plenty fun already

Spoiler for summary:

2010-01-09, 23:23	Link #1486
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	Kinetic, Heat, Electricity, Sound, Radiation, Light- Pretty much anything that has a direction. The key word is direction. __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2010-01-10, 07:22	Link #1496
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	Look people, lets make this very simple- If it has a direction, or if it's something that he can touch, or if it's something that generally can affect him, the moment it comes into contact with his AIM field, anything less complicating than a Nuclear Blast (Not proven, but constantly mentioned) , Accelerator can choose whatever way he wants it to go. Yes, it's rule breaking, even the characters think so. But that's why he's Number 1, that's why hundreds of people want to study him, and that's why his powers are described as "He who wields a piece of power that equates to god." __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2010-01-10, 19:22	Link #1500
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	The first chapter of Volume 9 was plenty fun already Spoiler for summary: Baka-tsuki already translated the prologue so I'll skip that one. The chapter brings with Laura talking to Aleister. Some small talks about Laura brushing her hair, Aleister 'sort of' teasing her about her Japanese (Offering to send a tutor) and Laura giving a response that could mildly be considered tsundere Anway, they talk about these two magicians that have entered Academy City. One of them is a member of the Rome Catholic, while the other is mercenary of sort... Not sure of their names... But the problem is, they have brought with them a dangerous artifact.[Stab Sword], legend has it that this weapon can impale a dragon to the ground. It is a sword that has no effects on normal people, but if the target is a Saint, even if it's just the tip, no matter the distance, can instantly kill him/her. Laura send Stiyl to help out, while Aleister... Well, you know there's only one guy. Anway, on the day of the sport festival, just moments after making the bet with Mikoto, Touma walked into his classroom to find everybody completely demoralized by the up coming matches. Enter Seiri, who makes her debut as the strong-willed Class representative. She blames Touma for the depression And has him pin down in a vebal battle (At this point, most of the class are rooting for her), "Strong... Too strong. Seiri your too strong! As expected of the woman who can defend against Kamijo!" "If it's a normal person, at this time she'll get soft and say [Ka-Kamijo-san, are you alright?]" "That bastard always talk about bad luck, but always ends up in the best positions!" "She's the best hope for mankind, study Seiri well, maybe we can defeat Kamijo!" One thing leads to another and Touma got a shirt wet and could see through to her bra "Se-Seiri?! Kamijo you bastard, how dare you do this to our last fortress!' "Impossible, when it comes to Kamijo, even a Tigeress would show weakness!" "Beyond expectations, even her cute undergarmant can be seen, will this become some kind of love-comedy?!" "This is despair for humanity- Even Seiri couldn't do it, who else can survive?!" Funny thing is, she didn't give the expected Tsundere respond and didn't freak out at all. However fun times didn't last as Touma overheard an arguement between Komoe-sensei and another teacher from another school. It got really heated, that guy was mocking her students calling them trash and useless and failures, Komoe did everything to defend her students, saying that there are no such thing as a hopless student, it's her fault as a teacher that her students isn't performing and no matter what a Teacher shouldn't use their students to advance their career, personally I gain alot of respect for her after that, but the guy just laughs it off. When Touma turned around, the whole class was behind him. "Alright, you guys heard everything right? Just a moment ago everyone was so lifeless and weak... Let me ask again, are you sure you guys don't want to win?" __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2010-01-09, 21:13	Link #1482
Miraluka Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 34	http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...hapter7#Part_4 New chapters translated, Touma meets Vent of the Front.

2010-01-09, 23:11	Link #1484
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	No I don't think accelerator can alter the size of the rock. "one who carries" A vector is what is needed to "carry" the point A to the point B; The vector that accelerator can control is just as the vector say. magnitude and direction but the thing is his almighty control comes on the flow or which direction he will make it go. His power doesn't allow to change the magnitude of the matter just the control of it as it. He can break it apart and assemble it but altering its composition alone. Is not in his jurisdiction. Its more like alchemy if you ask me. The black hole thing is possible due to it works almost the same when he summons the plasma. He change the flow of the wind to a certain point. Like a black hole that sucks anything to a certain point. "just total control on where he wants it to go"

2010-01-09, 23:17	Link #1485
babohtea Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009	Oh, so its "kinetic energy" control? I thought he controlled energy conversions such as heat etc.? I guess heat is just quantum kinetic energy, but this is stretching it. Can anyone else confirm that its only kinetic vectors that he can control? Anyhow, if he just controls "vectors" in general that would give him infinite possibilities. Sure, a vector in physics usually means magnitude and direction, but this can mean many things. It can mean velocity, acceleration or force, just to name a few. It can get even more ridiculous that that. For example, we have vectors in the imaginary plane allowing us to calculate the imaginary roots of numbers. Now, if Accelerator wanted to use vectors to represent changes in mass vs volume, he could easily make the rock as big as he wanted to by altering the "mass/volume vector".

2010-01-09, 23:24	Link #1487
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	no he can't control conversions of heat just where the heat will go. Accumulate it in certain point to increase its temperature or disperse it. Acceleration just what his given title is but he can't increase its speed. I read it here before but the thing is he can't increase its speed BUT he can force all its direction into a single one making it stronger and faster than before but he cannot alter one vector value. NO ALTERING just pure control of directions. Giving him altering power over its mass will be to much. How can touma even win against him in his prime days if he can just change the mass.

2010-01-09, 23:42	Link #1489
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	he can't shoot it out. Just like when he dispersed railgun. Mikoto hit him with railgun but it didn't bounce instead it dispersed into nothing. As for heat.... I'm not sure but if its fire with a solid medium where it burns then he can control its direction. His ability just let him change its direction by contact after it. The initial force and the additional or accumulate force will be the initial or rather its speed and force of the matter he just control.

2010-01-10, 00:15	Link #1491
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	The railgun that is but the railgun mikoto using having a token bullet can only run for 50 meters max.After it the power acting on the token will be to much and the token will disintegrate. If the initial impact is been thwarted do you think that tiny token can take on much damage?

2010-01-10, 00:31	Link #1492
BlueDo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	I guess you can say that the part where he reflected Imouto's attack is a screw-up. And he never controlled the flow of heat. He's just immune from it. As for the other part: Realize, though, that Accelerator easily breaks the conservation of momentum. He can look at a still object and say "Oh, that's composed of two opposing momentums. I'll just reflect one of them so it goes twice as fast." As for when he kicked the pebble so fast, or when he threw that steel girder so easily, he probably doubled his forces constantly, and could've applied gravity while in contact. You can accept it when you know that he could've done much more by controlling math.

2010-01-10, 00:42	Link #1493
babohtea Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009	Yeah but the earth is spinning at over 800,000 kilometers per hour through the universe (factoring in the sun's orbit as well as the earth's orbit as well as rotation). If Accelerator takes a chunk of that with his ability to mess up the conservation of momentum its pretty much good game. I think he must be able to create his own forces somehow, or maybe he physically pushes it and then follows up with wind power. Breaking the conservation of momentum wouldn't work because if he takes the two opposite forces and puts them in the same direction, another opposite reaction will just neutralize it immediately.

2010-01-10, 01:18	Link #1494
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	How can he mess up the revolution and rotation of the earth itself if he can't touch it directly? How does the earth revolve the sun to begin with? isn't it due to the magnetic force or something that acts with earth revolving in its own orbit? Too bad his ability doesn't make him create his own force but he can use his own power to do so. Like when he fought touma or rather when he usually uses the gound as an attack ability. he kicks it and every thing that vibrates he can change its force with the help also of gravitiy acting polar + the initial fall ..... to much explanation. back in looking at c77.

2010-01-10, 11:18	Link #1497
babohtea Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009	I understand what you're saying, but I was just arguing a point. We use vectors in imaginary number calculation. Does an imaginary number have a direction? No, not really. However, if you change the direction of an imaginary number in trig form you change the number itself. I'm not saying that Accelerator's powers go beyond literal direction into the intangible, it was just to demonstrate that "redirecting vectors" is too vague, and his powers seem to go beyond that. By the way, he can't really heat anything outside his AIM field. Again, heat transfers occur between each and every molecule in a medium. He can only direct heat to a certain point. After that it basically disperses in every direction. Ugh, I know all the superpowers are supposed to break physics in one or another, but Accelerator is like violating all of Newton's laws of physics. What are we going to do if we find out he can modify quantum particles and they actually affect the "normal world"? Antimatter, control over gravity and time. =(. Oh well, at least his brain needs to keep up with that. I don't think he could possibly be smart enough to understand something in his head that hundreds of thousands of scientists still don't understand today.

2010-01-10, 13:14	Link #1499
walt Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009	about Harem disscusion look: Last Order meets with #10032 Last Order steals #10032's headgear and disappears #10032 gives pursuit Touma is lounging in the mini-plaza while Mikoto and Kuroko are handling the mobile phone service #10032 meets with Touma Obviously - "it's the plan" - so #10032 could'nt hide any feeling from root of MisakaNet(Last Order)