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Cosmic Eagle · 2012-09-11, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Nationalism, a secular version of pig-sty mind zealotry. People find it easy to spot the others but rarely notice their own. :P

Nationalism and religion (not spirituality mind you) two most deadly inventions of man

Yet the former is frequently promoted even in first world nations

NoemiChan · 2012-09-11, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Nationalism, a secular version of pig-sty mind zealotry. People find it easy to spot the others but rarely notice their own. :P

Guess Vexx.. had a bad day/week.....

Kyuu · 2012-09-11, 19:14

And so... 11 years after 9/11... more stuff is coming out:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...ngs/?tag=stack

Quote:

(CBS News) Eleven years after the 9/11 attacks, there is new information on what the George W. Bush administration knew about al-Qaeda's plans.

We learned after 9/11 that a presidential briefing paper in August 2001 was headlined "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S."

In short, Bush knew it was coming in general...

So, now what?

Sumeragi · 2012-09-11, 19:15

What about it? We know that in a large government such as the US, it is difficult to respond to everything.

Ithekro · 2012-09-11, 19:36

There is a lot of "they knew, they knew" that goes around. But frankly, until something actually happens, most cases of "someone is going to attack us" gets the "Boy who cried Wolf" treatment. Though after the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, Bin Laden was targetted. He was always seen as a threat, but over time that threat seemed less and less urgent as political and public focus changed to other issues (be it what was Clinton doing in the oval office with his pants down to the hanging chads in the election.)

We were not surprised when we were attacked 11 years ago. Just shocked by the method and the destruction. We knew we were going to get attacked eventually.

MakubeX2 · 2012-09-11, 19:51

A more important point here. Does anyone still cares about 9/11 ?

I don't think so because it had been more than a decade, the mastermind and quite a few key people are dead and the organisation is more or less scattered, it does seem that the war aganist terror had lose it's steam with troops being recalled from Iraq and Afghan.

Vexx · 2012-09-11, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

A more important point here. Does anyone still cares about 9/11 ?

I don't think so because it had been more than a decade, the mastermind and quite a few key people are dead and the organisation is more or less scattered, it does seem that the war aganist terror had lose it's steam with troops being recalled from Iraq and Afghan.

Everyone who lost someone or knew someone who lost someone cares about it as a huge tragedy. Don't be upset if you get quite a few slings and arrows over that post :P

Now... *martyr-izing* or invoking faux-patriotism about it.... that I find disturbing. More than a few politicians seem unable to avoid waving the flag as if they had some connection or were something special.

I'll skip comment on any "war against terror" nonsense for today...

MakubeX2 · 2012-09-11, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Everyone who lost someone or knew someone who lost someone cares about it as a huge tragedy. Don't be upset if you get quite a few slings and arrows over that post :P

I don't really give a damn over rep on a BBS on the Net. It's just words anyway.

My point is that after all the investments that had been dumped in and the success that had been reported. It does seem that our guard aganist terrorism had been relaxed as more pressing matters rushed it such as the Financial Meltdown, Election Powerplay and Territorial Squabbles. But as we all know, Terrorist can lay in wait for years before striking...

Vexx · 2012-09-11, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

I don't really give a damn over rep on a BBS on the Net. It's just words anyway.

My point is that after all the investments that had been dumped in and the success that had been reported. It does seem that our guard aganist terrorism had been relaxed as more pressing matters rushed it such as the Financial Meltdown, Election Powerplay and Territorial Squabbles. But as we all know, Terrorist can lay in wait for years before striking...

The US spent a lot of money on what Bruce Schneier calls "security theater". It gave an utterly false sense of security while not accomplishing anything other than to pad the pockets of Bush's corporate buddies (see airport scanners or all the outsourced contracts that netted nothing). Basically, the Bush administration took the opportunity and completely squandered it on things irrelevant to the target problem (including the entire war in Iraq as well as the "Homeland Security" emptying of the treasury by profiteers). They also took the opportunity to erode a truck load of basic freedoms in the "never enough" name of security. I don't cut the other party any slack either - they're too gutless to point out the emperor has no clothes on this matter because its all wrapped in flag, holy books, and piety.

------------------------------------------
Separately, in the News category of "Idiots versus Idiots", we have Egyptian and other protesters burning American Embassies and contributing to the death of an American staff member over a video "movie" unfavorable to Islam released by an Israeli-American supported by a small group of christian evangelists.

I call it idiots versus idiots for a reason....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/12/wo...and-egypt.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19562692

SaintessHeart · 2012-09-12, 01:16

Romney's response is gold. Is he really dumb or what?

kyp275 · 2012-09-12, 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Separately, in the News category of "Idiots versus Idiots", we have Egyptian and other protesters burning American Embassies and contributing to the death of an American staff member over a video "movie" unfavorable to Islam released by an Israeli-American supported by a small group of christian evangelists.

Aye, the consulate staff that was KIA was also a well-known EVE Online player, and it was his first assignment with the State Dept. no less.

I did not know Sean personally, but he was a good guy who did a great job while he was on the CSM, may he rest in peace, and condolences to his family.

All of it over an youtube vid by an asshat on the internet... ffs people...

NorthernFallout · 2012-09-12, 02:31

As with kyp275, I read this morning he who died was a SA member and EVE player, named "Vile Rat", a Goonswarm Diplomat. There is currently a huge following of condolences on the EVE-O forums and other related sources.

Never interacted with him, or knew him, but it still feels weird as he was part of the same community and that we technically were at war in-game. Wish I could have met him now. RIP Vile Rat.

And all because of a vid made by a few idiots...

RRW · 2012-09-12, 04:36

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ulate-benghazi

Quote:

An American member of staff at the US consulate in Benghazi has died following fierce clashes at the compound, two Libyan security sources said on Wednesday.

"One American staff member has died and a number have been injured in the clashes," Abdel-Monem Al-Hurr, spokesman for Libya's supreme security committee, said, adding that he did not know the exact number of injured.

ganbaru · 2012-09-12, 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Romney's response is gold. Is he really dumb or what?

What's his answer ? To be honest I couldn't find it .

From Russia With Love? China vs. India Carrier Showdown
http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-b...rce=feedburner

NorthernFallout · 2012-09-12, 04:52

Death count is now four.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/midd...mmad-film-live

MrTerrorist · 2012-09-12, 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganbaru

What's his answer ? To be honest I couldn't find it

This quote from the BBC

Quote:

US Republican presidential contender Mitt Romney criticised President Barack Obama for his response to the protests.

"It's disgraceful that the Obama administration's first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathise with those who waged the attacks," he said in a statement.

ganbaru · 2012-09-12, 05:54

@Thank MrTerrorist

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Romney's response is gold. Is he really dumb or what?

Dumb or not, it's probably the kind of reaction than his supporters are expecting. Hardly ''presidential'' , forgeting the fact than Obama's answer was about what happened before in Egypt. The fact than thoses than payed for making the ''movie'' are also likely to have contributed to his campain might help him forgeting the morons than sparked the incident.

NoemiChan · 2012-09-12, 06:33

US Embassy Attacked in Libya; US Ambassador Killed!!!!

SeijiSensei · 2012-09-12, 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Romney's response is gold. Is he really dumb or what?

No, it was a carefully conceived statement designed to reiterate a Romney campaign talking point, that President Obama apologizes to Muslim governments and extremists and has been doing so since his trip to the Middle East in 2009.

Romney is caught in a serious bind when it comes to foreign policy, traditionally an issue where voters see the Republicans as tougher and more competent than the Democrats. Obama has defused this advantage by being the tough guy on the block. He also now has four years of foreign policy and national security experience where Romney has none. Choosing Paul "I love Ayn Rand" Ryan as his running-mate added nothing in this category.

Meanwhile Romney has been trying to attract the most extreme pro-Israel and anti-Muslim elements within the Jewish community. One of his principal donors, billionaire casino mogul Sheldon Adelson, accompanied Romney on his trip to Israel and sat by his side while old buddies Romney and Netanyahu patted each other on the back. Adelson has announced publicly that he is personally committed to spending up to $100 million to defeat President Obama, and he and his wife have already donated at least $10 million that we know about to Romney's SuperPAC.

So, no, Romney was not making an idiotic statement. It was a carefully worded response designed to inflame those people in his coalition who see Barack Hussein Obama as a closet Muslim and sympathizer with Islamists.

Netanyahu for this part has been taking the same line in his public rhetoric in advance of the UN General Assembly opening session.

Quote:

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel inserted himself into the most contentious foreign policy issue of the American presidential campaign on Tuesday, criticizing the Obama administration for refusing to set clear “red lines” on Iran’s nuclear progress that would prompt the United States to undertake a military strike. As a result, he said, the administration has no “moral right” to restrain Israel from taking military action of its own.

Some of the President's supporters fear that Netanyahu will mount an attack on Iran in the next few weeks in hopes of forcing Obama to choose between military support for the adventure or looking weak on Israel. I have had these concerns myself, but I think now that they are wrong. Most foreign-policy crises create a "rally round the flag" atmosphere which would benefit the President, not Romney. I do expect to see more of this sort of rhetoric from Bibi as the election nears though. He and Romney have a personal relationship that extends back to their days together at Harvard Business School in the 1970s, and it is well known that Netanyahu despises Obama personally. Note that Bibi's opinion is not shared throughout the Israeli Government. Last year Defense Minister Ehud Barak said publicly that “I can hardly remember a better period of American support and backing, and Israeli cooperation and similar strategic understanding of events around us, than what we have right now.” As a former leader of the Labor Party and Prime Minister in the early 2000's, Mr. Barak's comments probably have a bit of politics in them as well.

Sumeragi · 2012-09-12, 07:32

Seems like what I had predicted about an year ago is coming back: Libya will not be pretty if there is regime change.

2012-09-11, 19:36	Link #23365
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	There is a lot of "they knew, they knew" that goes around. But frankly, until something actually happens, most cases of "someone is going to attack us" gets the "Boy who cried Wolf" treatment. Though after the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, Bin Laden was targetted. He was always seen as a threat, but over time that threat seemed less and less urgent as political and public focus changed to other issues (be it what was Clinton doing in the oval office with his pants down to the hanging chads in the election.) We were not surprised when we were attacked 11 years ago. Just shocked by the method and the destruction. We knew we were going to get attacked eventually. __________________

2012-09-12, 01:16	Link #23370
SaintessHeart NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 35	Romney's response is gold. Is he really dumb or what? __________________ When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus. Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

2012-09-12, 02:31	Link #23372
NorthernFallout The Interstellar Medium Author Join Date: May 2008 Location: [SWE] Age: 34	As with kyp275, I read this morning he who died was a SA member and EVE player, named "Vile Rat", a Goonswarm Diplomat. There is currently a huge following of condolences on the EVE-O forums and other related sources. Never interacted with him, or knew him, but it still feels weird as he was part of the same community and that we technically were at war in-game. Wish I could have met him now. RIP Vile Rat. And all because of a vid made by a few idiots... __________________

2012-09-12, 04:52	Link #23375
NorthernFallout The Interstellar Medium Author Join Date: May 2008 Location: [SWE] Age: 34	Death count is now four. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/midd...mmad-film-live __________________

2012-09-11, 19:15	Link #23364
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	What about it? We know that in a large government such as the US, it is difficult to respond to everything.

2012-09-11, 19:51	Link #23366
MakubeX2 うるとらぺど Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 44	A more important point here. Does anyone still cares about 9/11 ? I don't think so because it had been more than a decade, the mastermind and quite a few key people are dead and the organisation is more or less scattered, it does seem that the war aganist terror had lose it's steam with troops being recalled from Iraq and Afghan.

2012-09-12, 06:33	Link #23378
NoemiChan Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Philippines Age: 36	US Embassy Attacked in Libya; US Ambassador Killed!!!!

2012-09-12, 07:32	Link #23380
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	Seems like what I had predicted about an year ago is coming back: Libya will not be pretty if there is regime change.